Was There Treason Against Pakistan In Higher Ranks Of Paf:---

[litman]

The guys with the aviator glasses screwed our airforce procurements big time - - - - - - -


if it wasn't for president Musharraf our Swedish awacs would have been lying dead on the tarmac by now and in case of survival in some sorta war our airforce Generals would be giving tedious sermons about how we survived against all odds yaaayyyy
(created by none other than us)


Same is the case with the delaying and eventually cancelling the j10 deal. Just take a look what plateau it has reached since then . Sigh! Pakistan airforce could have been the Mola jutt of South Asia - - - - - - -

president musharraf tried to secure deals with china bypassing the complete channel. ACM kaleem tried to open his mouth but yes who can speak truth in pakistan. PAF was not willing to buy some systems from china as they were unsuited for our requirements but musharraf made the deal. as far as J10 is concerned just look at the crashes of the initial blocks of the jet. dont have complete details about the specs of the jet in its capabilities but other then the J10 with TV capability its performance in the air shows is always average even apparently worse then JFT. the chinese aerobatic team with J10 came to pak and i was glad to see an aerobatic team even worse then sherdils. pakistan never had budget for anything beyond F-16 and J 10. rafale, EF or typhon are simply beyond the reach of our pockets. thanks to corruption that is rampant in every department in this country. out of F-16 and J 10 PAF opted for F-16 blk 52 for simple reasons. combat proven, cost effective, sufficient maintenance facilities in pak and trained man power to maintain and fly the jet.
today we are not in a position to buy any other jet not even J10 simply because of economic reasons and truly speaking WE DONT NEED ANY MORE FIGHTER JETS RIGHT NOW. with the prevailing economic situation in the country pak only needs F-16 and JFT to fight the LIC . war with india is highly unlikely. the biggest deterrence we need is the nuclear capability with efficient delivery systems and we already have them. this is the only thing deterring india from making any adventure. if we subtract nukes out of it and add any fighter jet J10 or rafale in limited numbers (as we can never buy these jets in huge numbers) india wouldnt have given a second thought launching strikes in pakistan. so if we already have enough deterrence even for future why should we waste resources on J xyz and F 123. so we dont need more fourth gen platforms. just replace the third gen jets with JFT or some second hand F-16s and once the economy improves and situation demands go for fifth gen jets but still the our main deterrence will be our nuclear capability and not even the F-22 (if we get them)

 

[Ali Tariq]

Indian 007 Brooke Bond

Criticizing PAF doesn't mean he is an Indian.

 

[Kakaspai]

Mastan bhai its time to forget the past and look for the future.I hope and pray that no blunders are made by Paf in future.
You know aaaal isss wellll

 

[Aasimkhan]

president musharraf tried to secure deals with china bypassing the complete channel. ACM kaleem tried to open his mouth but yes who can speak truth in pakistan. PAF was not willing to buy some systems from china as they were unsuited for our requirements but musharraf made the deal. as far as J10 is concerned just look at the crashes of the initial blocks of the jet. dont have complete details about the specs of the jet in its capabilities but other then the J10 with TV capability its performance in the air shows is always average even apparently worse then JFT. the chinese aerobatic team with J10 came to pak and i was glad to see an aerobatic team even worse then sherdils. pakistan never had budget for anything beyond F-16 and J 10. rafale, EF or typhon are simply beyond the reach of our pockets. thanks to corruption that is rampant in every department in this country. out of F-16 and J 10 PAF opted for F-16 blk 52 for simple reasons. combat proven, cost effective, sufficient maintenance facilities in pak and trained man power to maintain and fly the jet.
today we are not in a position to buy any other jet not even J10 simply because of economic reasons and truly speaking WE DONT NEED ANY MORE FIGHTER JETS RIGHT NOW. with the prevailing economic situation in the country pak only needs F-16 and JFT to fight the LIC . war with india is highly unlikely. the biggest deterrence we need is the nuclear capability with efficient delivery systems and we already have them. this is the only thing deterring india from making any adventure. if we subtract nukes out of it and add any fighter jet J10 or rafale in limited numbers (as we can never buy these jets in huge numbers) india wouldnt have given a second thought launching strikes in pakistan. so if we already have enough deterrence even for future why should we waste resources on J xyz and F 123. so we dont need more fourth gen platforms. just replace the third gen jets with JFT or some second hand F-16s and once the economy improves and situation demands go for fifth gen jets but still the our main deterrence will be our nuclear capability and not even the F-22 (if we get them)

Firstly Typhoon and EF are two names of the same aircraft please correct your info
Secondly aircraft is just a platform, more important than platform is the radar and missile and avionics. Today's JF17 is not a plane which Pakistan opted for 20 years back when Chinese systems were in infancy. Today's Chinese avionics are comparable with their western counterparts and even excel in certain areas. Latest AESA radars and missiles like PL 15 are just few examples. An inferior platform with superior systems is better than a superior platform with outdated systems.
Thirdly quantity has a quality of its own. You can field 3 jf17s in the price of one Rafael. We don't need Rafael s or typhoons or gripens. Just a few more F16s and rest jf17s approx 200 will see us for next 10 years. By then our 5th gen will be rready. Future of aviation is China. Stick to the future rather than the past.

Ot

Mastan bhai its time to forget the past and look for the future.I hope and pray that no blunders are made by Paf in future.
You know aaaal isss wellll

Other than kargil where paf was never informed in advance and we were at a serious disadvantahe regarding bvr, PAF has never let us down.
History of PAF is written with blood. People like Mr mastan will not be able to tarnish it at any cost.

 

[litman]

Firstly Typhoon and EF are two names of the same aircraft please correct your info
Secondly aircraft is just a platform, more important than platform is the radar and missile and avionics. Today's JF17 is not a plane which Pakistan opted for 20 years back when Chinese systems were in infancy. Today's Chinese avionics are comparable with their western counterparts and even excel in certain areas. Latest AESA radars and missiles like PL 15 are just few examples. An inferior platform with superior systems is better than a superior platform with outdated systems.
Thirdly quantity has a quality of its own. You can field 3 jf17s in the price of one Rafael. We don't need Rafael s or typhoons or gripens. Just a few more F16s and rest jf17s approx 200 will see us for next 10 years. By then our 5th gen will be rready. Future of aviation is China. Stick to the future rather than the past.

Ot

Other than kargil where paf was never informed in advance and we were at a serious disadvantahe regarding bvr, PAF has never let us down.
History of PAF is written with blood. People like Mr mastan will not be able to tarnish it at any cost.

so other then highlighting a typo in my post what's your point einstein?

 

[Aasimkhan]

so other then highlighting a typo in my post what's your point einstein?

This Einstein was supporting your narrative in case you could.not figure it out bro

 

[Cash GK]

we should ask china for j31 or j20 stealth fighter immediately if we have no money then procure them for loan or deferred payments

we have agreement for j20 i think..

 

[ARMalik]

Fellows, the title of the thread is deliberately 'Offensive' which usually indicates that the person, which in this case is the thread starter, is seeking impulsive and reactionary responses from the members here specially those members who might have 'good knowledge' of PAF.

Hence my advise is to check your responses before you post and don't post anything sensitive. Or just ignore.

 

[Mentee]

when did Pakistan introduce a rank of General in the air force? have they abolished the rank of Air Chief Marshal if so when? why?

They've abandoned the classic u.s salute in favour of the army's outdated British shamalaikum, they may replace the rank name as well.

 

[Aasimkhan]

They've abandoned the classic u.s salute in favour of the army's outdated British shamalaikum, they may replace the rank name as well.

US sure wasn't classic. Army style British salute was classic. By the way since last 50 years I have seen paf saluting in army style

 

[313ghazi]

What utter shit. Is PAF supposed to procure aircraft with pocket money? Maybe in exchange for packets of ding dongs and cocomo?

PAF intended to purchase J-10 but has to cancel plans due to PPP era financial mismanagement.

 

[BHarwana]

This thread is begging for an answer that how paf plans to defend its air bases in war times.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Hi,

Pakistan is at the brink of a war with its neighbor one more time in the last 20 years---and as usual the only arm of the Pak military that is lagging behind in confronting the enemy is Pakistan air force---.

One more time Paf has been caught ill prepared and not ready for full scale combat against its arch enemy---.

Rather than buying a potent aircraft some 17 years ago---the Paf chose to build and manufacture their own aircraft---the supposedly sanctions proof aircraft---. Supposedly the Paf never got permission from its arch enemy that while it was getting the aircraft ready for combat---the enemy would not get close to a war or the two nations would be at the brink of war---.

The stupidity of the Paf hierarchy is well evident from the fact that it did not cover its bases before it went on the venture of building its own fighter aircraft---meaning that if it had procured a respectable number of potent aircraft in a timely manner---and then progressed to build a fighter of its own---the situation would not be as helpless as it would seem to be now---.

Staying intentionally weak and less equipped has put the sovreignty of the nation of pakistan at stake---.

With a weak air force---the pak military would have to take strategic steps---the nuclear option---sooner rather than later to protect its soil and to keep its integrity alive and secure---.

An inherently weaker pakistan air force for the last 17 years had made the enemy braver by the day and by the year as they knew pak military could not retaliate with a strong action due to lack of fighting aircraft---. The enemy has used that weakness to their advantage by openly threatening the integrity of pakistan multiple times over the years.

For the last many a years---I have raised this question many a times---and I bring it up again---.

Has it been out of COWARDICE that the Paf has chosen not to get the much needed aircraft in a timely manner---is it out of cowardice that the Paf has decided to become a defensive airforce---. There are so many questions that are put there for the Paf---but no Paf officer out there to answer them for the public---.

I don't think you are being fair to paf... Its not paf's fault. Had pakistan the budget and money in 90s or early 2000s we would have gone for j-10a aircraft like musharaf did but then money was a problem.

Also we were very deep with usa and totally dependant on united states in those times.

Even today pakistan has no money for paf... Im amazed they keep flying. We have had no money for past 22 years specifically. Still don't.

If pakistan had the money aircraft like j-31, j-16, jh-7 and J-10C are available for purchase from china any time. They (chinese) have been pushing j-10 to pakistan for past 15 years. We always never had the money.

For army tanks like type 99A2P are on offer but again we have no budget for such a heavy class tank so no one thought about it.

Sukhoi 35, Mikoyan 35 , Yak 130 are available from Russia but pakistan has no money and considers them not needed or unnecessary burden on budget . twin engine aircraft are deemed too expensive for pakistan cuz no money.

JAS griphen from europe was rejected as it is in the same class as jf 17 block 2 or 3.

Had pakistan the money we would go for latest mirages or rafale aircraft like in past india had same aircraft and same suppliers the french and pakistan had them as well. Any supplier except usa wants money. They just take our money and sell anything we want.

Especially french they love money.

Make pakistan a middle income country with no economic constraints. U will find china and perhaps russia more than enough for tech suppliers or even technology transfers would occur.

Sad reality is pakistan doesn't even have money to give to existing assets and forces. We are in crisis.

PAF has done a great job in these odds. India with 10x the budget of our PAF is in crisis, while PAF is still in better shape as compared to india.

I find ur post biased and some what faulty. What could PAF do? No money . what can paf do even now? Chinese are the best suppliers in the world right now but we have no money.

Still PAF is better equipped than indian Air Force

 

[Aasimkhan]

What utter shit. Is PAF supposed to procure aircraft with pocket money? Maybe in exchange for packets of ding dongs and cocomo?

PAF intended to purchase J-10 but has to cancel plans due to PPP era financial mismanagement.

J10 May be a hell of a plane but jf17 with AESA and bvr , with low maintainability, high sortie generation rate, sufficient numbers and simple operation is good enough for Pakistan's needs.

I don't think you are being fair to paf... Its not paf's fault. Had pakistan the budget and money in 90s or early 2000s we would have gone for j-10a aircraft like musharaf dod but then money was a problem.

Also we were very deep with usa and totally dependant on united states in those times.

Even today pakistan pakistan has no money for paf... Im amazed they keep flying. We have had no money for past 22 years specifically. Still don't.

If pakistan had the money aircraft like j-31, j-16, jh-7 and J-10C are available for purchase from china any time. They (chinese) have been pushing j-10 to pakistan for past 15 years. We always never had the money.

For amy tanks like type 99A2P are on offer but again we have no budget for such a heavy class tank so one thought about ut.

Sukhoi 35, Mikoyan 35 , Yak 130 are available from Russia but pakistan has no money and considers them not needed or unnecessary burden on budget . twin engine aircraft are deemed too expensive for pakistan cuz no money.

JAS griphen from europe was rejected as it is in the same class as jf 17 block 2 or 3.

Had pakistan the money we would go for latest mirages or rafale aircraft like in past india had same aircraft and same suppliers the french and pakistan had them as well. All any supplier except usa wants money. They just take our money and sell anythjng we want.

Especially french they love money.

Make pakistan a middle income country with no economic constraints. U will find china and perhaps russia more than enough for tech suppliers or even technology transfers would occur.

Sad reality is pakistan doesn't even have money to give to existing assets and forces. We are in crisis.

PAF has done a great job in these odds. India with 10x the budget of our PAF is in crisis, while PAF is still in better shape as compared to india.

I find ur post biased and some what faulty. What could PAF do? No money . what can paf do even now? Chinese are the best suppliers in the world right now but we have no money.

In the end it is the man behind the gun who matters. Result of the battle will be decided by the ones who are ready to go the extra mile

 

[sparten]

Bollocks.

In a nutshell.