Was Jinnah's Pakistan worth the fight?

[EjazR]

That was Zia's policy, Zia was not the ISI/PA and neither are ISI/PA Zia.

It was also ISI's police in the 80s and 90s. There is overwhelming evidence that the Taliban received material and people from Pakistan under the guidance of the ISI.

Doesn't matter what others think, PA is Pakistan's most powerful, stable and respected institution, they have done tonnes of good for Pakistan.

The only reason why PA was brought up was because some Pakistanis think that it is the JI and other allied groups that are the major cause of extremism in Pakistan today. I don't agree with that. I think that BECAUSE PA is and has been atleast post 79 the most powerful institution even during the 90s, it is primarily responsible.

We know about Jamaat-e-Islami Hind.

I was explaining the misconception people have about JI in Pakistan vs the JI in India. If you know that already, that's very good. Some Pakistanis seem unaware.

Just for the record, the article was written by a B'deshi, posted by a B'deshi, so we aren't the only one's who seem to think of the Indian muslims to be in a sorry state, however, I personally take no responsibility for them, they are Indians and the Indian govt is responsible for how they are treated, I'm no one to complain, they had the option, they chose to stay there and any consequences that brings about whether good or bad are on their heads.

Yes and that is why my first post deconstructed the false data and compared it to data in Pakistan and Bangladesh in similar social indicators. I also stated that the real comparisons would be between minorities in India vs minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Justifying the creation of Pakistan by using the crutch of Indian muslims whose state today is also BECAUSE of the partition is wrong and a fallacy.

Our fight at the moment is to escape the clutches of the TTP and end the proxy war that is being waged by Iran, Arab countries, India, Israel and Russia in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Very good, but about internal reforms? If you really want to follow Jinnah's vision then you should be promoting Canada-US type relations between India and Pakistan.

 

[EjazR]

Besides counter argument, the fact to consider is the sense of insecurity that these riots cause among the minorities. Political utilization due to anti Muslim sentiments is the root cause.
Pakistan and Bangladesh consists of 66% of the sub-continent Muslims which means vast majority of Muslims did not accept the Hindu Raj in sub-continent and thus took the right step.

The vast majority of people didn't have a choice. It was not a universal franchise referendum. Nor where the boundaries of the new Pakistan ever told to the people. The 1945 elections was fought mainly on the plank of, if you are Muslim vote for Muslim League.

Besides, that's not even the point I'm making. I am saying that come up with other arguments other than just the condition of Indian Muslims. Why is that even after the partition, Indian muslims have a higher average literacy rate than their Pakistani or Bangladeshi counterparts DESPITE having the disadvantages of being a minority?

 

[EjazR]

Indian Muslims have turned their back towards Education and that is the single most important reason behind their 'Backwardness'

That is not the major reason and Indian muslims turning their "back on education" is a myth. Please leave the myths aside and educate yourself. I don't blame you because the media plays a role in stereotyping this at times.

This earlier post should be helpful in correcting your views
India Today's data on Muslim literacy questioned- Bihar Times

 

[billi]

Yeah the world saw how azad Islam was when Babri Masjid was destroyed and not to forget the Gujrat Massacre... 2 crown jewels of the hindu state called india. To top it off Kashmir has seen thousands of innocent muslims killed not to mention the women/girls raped by the occupational indian forces.

Illegal annexation of the princely Muslim state of Hyderabad, etc, etc.

Islam indeed is Azad in india.

Pakistan
---------
- killed 2million east pakistanis
- regularly force hindu girls to prodtitution and islam
- destroyed lots of temples after partition |
India
------
- muslims killed 57 hindus by burning
- 500 muslims were killed in riots . compare with 2 million- no forcible conversions
- Babri masjid was not even a functinoning mosque
yeah islam is a religion of peace

 

[billi]

who cares what the position of indian muslims is ? they're indians not pakistanis and it's india's problem not ours .

correct.. pak muslims are a problem in pak.
indian muslims are not a problem in india

 

[billi]

Shshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Bollywood pathetic movies are enough to show real Pakistan lolzz you will die laughing seeing Karachi being shown by bharti film industry

which film shows karachi

 

[Dark Angel]

Azim Premji an example of a common man with extraordinary archivements

Ruling Khans of Bollywood

There are many more examples which can be give remember....... if these guys can get success so can anyone and everyone in India

When you live for a strong purpose, then hard work isn’t an option. It’s a necessity

Abdul Kalam · Qurratulain Hyder · M. J. Akbar · Irfan Habib · Zakir Hussain · Azim Premji · Zakir Hussain · Mohammad Hidayatullah · Sania Mirza · Aamir Khan · Salim Ali · Shahrukh Khan · A. R. Rahman · Nargis · Zakir Naik




Long live India

 

[billi]

I did not insult. Just gave him a gentle reminder that there are things in this world that needs tolerance because most things are man made. Sorry if I said inappropriate things.

 

[Aslan]

Pakistan
---------
- killed 2million east pakistanis
- regularly force hindu girls to prodtitution and islam
- destroyed lots of temples after partition |
India
------
- muslims killed 57 hindus by burning
- 500 muslims were killed in riots . compare with 2 million- no forcible conversions
- Babri masjid was not even a functinoning mosque
yeah islam is a religion of peace

Can you also give us the source of the garbage that you have posted, or its just an indian in you talking.

 

[billi]

Can you also give us the source of the garbage that you have posted, or its just an indian in you talking.

please point out which part is garbage. I am sure you can google exactly these topics and find the answers. also it is the indian in me that is giving a balanced point of view and seeing both sides.

 

[Aslan]

Pakistan
---------
- killed 2million east Pakistanis

Can you provide a source for your claim.

Even Wiki that cant be considered as a reliable source says the following.

The international media and reference books in English have also have published figures which vary greatly: varying from 5,000–35,000 in Dhaka, and 200,000–3,000,000 for Bangladesh as a whole.[2][28][29] It is believed in certain quarters that the figure of three million has its origins in comments made by Yahya Khan to the journalist Robert Payne on 22 February 1971: "Kill three million of them, and the rest will eat out of our hands."[30][31]

So where the hell did u come up with the 2mil figure.

- regularly force hindu girls to prodtitution and islam

Again source, and what the hell is prodtitution.

Go chk the following,
.: Pakistan Hindu Council :.

There are problems, which is the country that dont have minority issues. But just to say it is not enough can you prove the bloody argument.

- destroyed lots of temples after partition |

Exactly that is why so many sikhs come to Pakistan every year, to morn over their destroyed temples.

Pakistan Gurdwaras

India
------
- muslims killed 57 hindus by burning

If you were smart enough the enquire report had clearly mentioned that the fire started from the inside of the train.

- 500 muslims were killed in riots . compare with 2 million- no forcible conversions

Go chk ur stats again only 500 eh, you are a genius. And what the hell is the other part of 2million no forcible conversions.


- Babri masjid was not even a functinoning mosque

So that gives you the right to go destroy it, the mosque was non functional because there was a case in the courts, and the hindu groups had forced it to be.

yeah islam is a religion of peace

So now you are being sarcastic eh.

Son the way I see it you are just a pathetic excuse to your existence, making up facts. I have posted some material for your digestions, now you prove the garbage that you have posted.

 

[billi]

Son the way I see it you are just a pathetic excuse to your existence, making up facts. I have posted some material for your digestions, now you prove the garbage that you have posted.

My figure of 2 million , i just wanted to be conservative. if you say you killed 3 mil, I will take it.
I have already posted links on an earlier thread on the forcible kidnapping and marrying off of hindu girls in pak. It has appeared in Pak press as well.
Only those gurdwaras which generate revenue by sikh tourism wre spared. remember the temple in karachi which was destroyed?

- the fire was caused by muslims in godhra train. we can easliy produce a report that the riots were started by muslims and no muslims were killed, but we dont do that.
- 2000 muslims killed in the riots is just false. about 500 muslims and 200 hindus were killed in the riots.
- well babri was built over a a temple that babr destroyed.but im not saying that babri should have been broken, we could have easiliy made to a tourist spot or something

 

[jbond197]

This is a particularly prejudiced and stupid comment. A Bangladeshi inciting Pakistanis to anger about Muslims in India. That is an equation that makes no sense and can only come from the poisoned thinking of an Indian. That some Pakistani members can fall for such an absurd logic is unfortunate.

Much better than a Stupid Thread you started. Would you ever care about your Bangladeshis who are dying on a daily basis rather spiting your hatred against India in each and every thread? You seem to have dedicated your life searching all the crap/BS articles against India. Go get a life and care about your country and your problems. Nobody in India or in Pakistan needs a Bangladeshi to tell what our problems are. Go care about your Jamati/Razakar folks instead of worrying about us Indians.

 

[Dark Angel]

Maulana Madani voice of Indian Muslims

 

[jbond197]

Sane people do not fall for it

and you are the most sanest person on PDF. Isn't it?