Was Jinnah secular or not?

[masterchief_mirza]

Matlab?

The word means interpretation.

 

[shah_123]

The word means interpretation.

I am sorry, but I want to be clear what You are asking, Plz elaborate, thank you!

 

[JohnWick]

Was Jinnah secular or not?

I say he was secular.

@El Sidd @Rusty @T-123456 @shah_123

He wears pant coat while Gandhi clothes were just a dhoti....

Are you saying that a Brahman convert called Sir Allama Iqbal took the Muslims of subcontinent for a ride?

Or

A Pious Maulana Sayyid Abul Kalam Azad took the Muslims of subcontinent for a ride?

Or

Both of them did?

Both of them did equally but Allama Iqbals efforts were unparalleled....

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes I get your point now. It's a total fakery in a sense.

Pakistan gave Islam new wings, and if we had gotten our act together after our founding fathers passed away, it would have led to a reformation of the whole Muslim world.

However our leaders betrayed their mandate, some made alliances with our enemies, others decieved the people with mere slogans, and finally alhamdulilah we have a leader (IK) of the intellectual honesty and courage of Quaid, but he is trapped in the spiderweb of corrupts and state leeches who have kept Pakistan backwards for 70+ years.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I am sorry, but I want to be clear what You are asking, Plz elaborate, thank you!

You stated interpretation isn't a concept in Islam and I replied that "tafsir" is translated as "Interpretation". A simple point of information that you may have oversimplified the concepts being discussed.

Anyway, I will close my contribution by saying that "Islamist" is indeed a heavily tarnished word as @panislamicpakistan has stated. In theory, it shouldn't really mean what it has come to mean in the modern lexicon - this is a side issue but certainly important to note.

I am of the opinion that Jinnah wholly intended Pakistan to be an open and liberalised nation free from ongoing involvement of any rigidly theocratic counsel in matters of state interest - "secular" for want of a better descriptor - albeit based on the Islamic principles of our forefathers interpreted for the modern challenges faced by a Muslim majority nation in the volatile situation it finds itself in. A rigid theocracy would have not been sustainable and Jinnah was foresighted enough to know as much. Just as judeo Christian tradition has guided common law in England and by extension many of its former colonies (including the USA), Islamic tradition has guided jurisprudence in Pakistan to a degree. This is my interpretation as someone not legally trained in the slightest hence I'm happy to be corrected by anyone who is.

The way forward for Pakistan undoubtedly has many similarities to that of Turkey's journey under Ataturk, but as is self-evident, we should find a path specific to Pakistan's interests. Our relationships with other Muslim majority nations should not be clouded by misleading interpretations of ummah-ism, as plenty of Muslims would wish harm upon Pakistan and plenty of non-Muslims would wish us success. We should strive to be a meritocracy ourselves and also judge others on merit.

Above all else, we are a citadel, a fortress and a safe haven for our people. This fundamental concept of Pakistan-ness is needed now more than ever. Long may we protect our qaum and its people against internal and external intrigues alike.

 

[fisher1]

What does it matter?

What Jinnah wanted for Pakistan hasn't happened. His vision for Pakistan is in grave with him.

Now we get clowns with different slogans, one says Pakistan first Islam last, another says Scandinavian Riasat then takes a Uturn and uses Riasat e Medina since it connects better with people and yet another wanted to be Ameer ul Momineen.

It's not even in fashion nowadays to use Quad e Azams vision for political campaigns.

Let him rest in peace

 

[GDP Adil Khan Niazi]

I don't know why people want to put labels on things.

You can go to your Mosques, Churches, Temples etc in this ISLAMIC Republic and under any Islamic type rule.

A country founded primarily for subcontinent Muslims to live their lives freely as Muslims with minorities who are also free to practice their faiths.

Call it what you want, get over the labels, it's just a play by people in pain due to separation from alien gangetic plane.

Exactly and rather than calling ourselves a secular state I would prefer to call it an equal state, With equal freedom rights, living rights, education rights, job rights as well up-to some extent e.g. We've recently inducted a Hindu boy from Thar as a GDP in Pakistan Airforce (For the first time in the history of Pakistan), We also knew there is a Sikh officer Major Harcharan Singh in Pakistan Army. Attached pictures for references!

Ap apni marzi se kha rahay ho, ghoom rahay ho, jee rahay ho, parh rahay ho, dosto se mil rahay ho, bazaar ja rahay ho, free to use internet, free to use your choice of expression aur azaadi kiya hoti hai?

 

[ziaulislam]

india is secular it's constitution gives equal right to everyone .

Really can common sense explain what happened in babri masjid or kashmir ...?
Does secularism explain the cow being sacred in most indian states..
never knew that cow was the symbol of secularism..
India is more hindu nation than pakistan is muslim nation..the only difference is we are not hypocrites

What does it matter?

What Jinnah wanted for Pakistan hasn't happened. His vision for Pakistan is in grave with him.

Now we get clowns with different slogans, one says Pakistan first Islam last, another says Scandinavian Riasat then takes a Uturn and uses Riasat e Medina since it connects better with people and yet another wanted to be Ameer ul Momineen.

It's not even in fashion nowadays to use Quad e Azams vision for political campaigns.

Let him rest in peace

All of these are exteme ends..he was probably like a common working pakistani ..wanted a islamic nationalist country with people deciding how much "islamic" they wanted..

One thing is for sure he noticed india isnt secular

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Exactly and rather than calling ourselves a secular state I would prefer to call it an equal state, With equal freedom rights, living rights, education rights, job rights as well up-to some extent e.g. We've recently inducted a Hindu boy from Thar as a GDP in Pakistan Airforce (For the first time in the history of Pakistan), We also knew there is a Sikh officer Major Harcharan Singh in Pakistan Army. Attached pictures for references!

Ap apni marzi se kha rahay ho, ghoom rahay ho, jee rahay ho, parh rahay ho, dosto se mil rahay ho, bazaar ja rahay ho, free to use internet, free to use your choice of expression aur azaadi kiya hoti hai?

View attachment 635305

Yes, and none of this contradicts Islam. Many Non-Muslims are too caught up in propaganda to see it.

Many of the highest offices in historically powerful Muslim states were filled by Non-Muslims, notably Christians, Jews, and Hindus.

Islam has been so tarnished as a religion that most Non-Muslims have trouble believing a state can be Islamic and promote rights of Non-Muslims as well, but this is the example of the Prophet Muhammad saws.

@Shantanu_Left

 

[American Pakistani]

in his real life he was secular , but he was a clever politican used religion for his political ambition . .

Same can be said about gandi...

"

Gandhi was also called a pedophile by many in the crowd for sleeping nude with his teenage grandnieces to test the strength of his vow of chastity.

“Gandhi was a child molester,”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article105581626.html

@PAKISTANFOREVER

 

[GHALIB]

Yes, and none of this contradicts Islam. Many Non-Muslims are too caught up in propaganda to see it.

Many of the highest offices in historically powerful Muslim states were filled by Non-Muslims, notably Christians, Jews, and Hindus.

Islam has been so tarnished as a religion that most Non-Muslims have trouble believing a state can be Islamic and promote rights of Non-Muslims as well, but this is the example of the Prophet Muhammad saws.

@Shantanu_Left

during sultanat and mughal period even hindustani muslims were treated as second class citizens , forget about non muslims indians getting any position in govt , only muslims from out of india arab,irani , uzbek, turks were given highest posts in muslim rule . rajputs hindus and muslims snatched positions because of their bravery and fighting spirit .

However our leaders betrayed their mandate, some made alliances with our enemies, others decieved the people .

how unfortunate you could not produce good leadership ? even after 70 years,

 

[infinity73]

Riyaz Ali Shah, specialist in tuberculosis at Mayo hospital Lahore looked after Jinnah in his very last days. Dr. Israr is reading excerpts from his diary which was also published in Jang newspaper.

 

[GHALIB]

Really can common sense explain what happened in babri masjid or kashmir ...?

ram janmbhoomi was there from many thousand years , babri maszid came later by hands of muslim invaders in holiest city of india .
kashmir is integral part of india .

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Mr. Jinnahs Pakistan Died with him what he truly wanted we will never know hence Fighting on it is irrelevant. Pakistan will be what Pakistanis want. Those who are trying to create mischief on this issue are well known.

If you want to know what Pakistanis want do a Nationwide referendum you will see whats written on the wall clearly yet many refuse to believe it.

When have we ever truly tried to implement Principals of Sharia in Country of ours. As a Muslim I know and wholehearted believe Islam is compatible with life in any Day and Age. But today's Muslims are incompatible with Islam some of them are the most vile disgusting creatures to ever live they distort and misuse our Lords word for their gains.

One of the Reasons i admire People who Revert to Islam is that they study and Learn about it First. Our 3rd rate Religious Leadership has never asked People to Learn Arabic on one hand and on the other hand and they have always Downplayed the Importance of Urdu Translations. Go to Mosques close to You you will see Books of Hadeeth and Translations on the shelves but the Imams there will never tell you to Reads them. On Jummas Hutbas we are told about stories about Great Early Muslim Personalities but never ever have i heard them talk about Islam what it says about Marriage what it says about Greed. The Reason for this as i see it is Majority of Islam is incompatible with our Cultural Dogmas and Beliefs.

We are today in this State because we have given Religion to the Mullah for us its his Job to study not ours. As long as this state of affair continues forget anything will change.

To those that say there are Too many Versions of Sharia no there arnt different sects used Different Teachings of Contemporary Muslim Scholars of last 200 to 300 Years thats why they fight all the time because they give too much importance to their Progenitor scholars than what Islam says.

Any Sharia as far as Ahle-Sunnat is concerned can be Derived from Holy Quran, Bukharia Sharif and Muslim Sharief Hadeeth books as these are Principle books agreed upon by all those sects (Brelvis, Deobandis, Ahle-Hadeeths) who Identify with Ahle-Sunnat. A Commission can Easily Derive an Islamic Basic Law from these Books and no one in their right mind will Question it. On matters which are not mentioned there use common law followed by Rest of the world. Most of Shia and Sunni basic law will be same as Fundamentals of Islam are same on matters where there will be Difference's of Opinion Eg. Zakat a Dual Mechanism could be made.

Coming to Minorities Islam allows Parallel Judicial System for them they wont be judged by Muslims but their own Judges and system. Minorities in Muslim lands ruled by Islam will have same Protections and Rights as the rest of Population as they would be tax payers of the same state as the Rest of Population. There is no where Islam says to kill Minorities Burn their Places of Worship, Force them to convert. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) even allowed Christians to Pray inside Prophets Mosque. It is the Incompetence of Law and order in Muslim Majority states that Presents this Attitude. Dont present your Ignorance on these matters as Islam.

P.S.
Pakistan has never been Ruled by a Religious leader all our Leaders were either Military Dictators Each with his Own Agenda and Centrists or Secular men/women. So Dont Bring this Argument that Islam Ruined us its the other way we around we ruined Islam.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Mr. Jinnahs Pakistan Died with him what he truly wanted we will never know hence Fighting on it is irrelevant. Pakistan will be what Pakistanis want. Those who are trying to create mischief on this issue are well known.

If you want to know what Pakistanis want do a Nationwide referendum you will see whats written on the wall clearly yet many refuse to believe it.

When have we ever truly tried to implement Principals of Sharia in Country of ours. As a Muslim I know and wholehearted believe Islam is compatible with life in any Day and Age. But today's Muslims are incompatible with Islam some of them are the most vile disgusting creatures to ever live they distort and misuse our Lords word for their gains.

One of the Reasons i admire People who Revert to Islam is that they study and Learn about it First. Our 3rd rate Religious Leadership has never asked People to Learn Arabic on one hand and on the other hand and they have always Downplayed the Importance of Urdu Translations. Go to Mosques close to You you will see Books of Hadeeth and Translations on the shelves but the Imams there will never tell you to Reads them. On Jummas Hutbas we are told about stories about Great Early Muslim Personalities but never ever have i heard them talk about Islam what it says about Marriage what it says about Greed. The Reason for this as i see it is Majority of Islam is incompatible with our Cultural Dogmas and Beliefs.

We are today in this State because we have given Religion to the Mullah for us its his Job to study not ours. As long as this state of affair continues forget anything will change.

To those that say there are Too many Versions of Sharia no there arnt different sects used Different Teachings of Contemporary Muslim Scholars of last 200 to 300 Years thats why they fight all the time because they give too much importance to their Progenitor scholars than what Islam says.

Any Sharia as far as Ahle-Sunnat is concerned can be Derived from Holy Quran, Bukharia Sharif and Muslim Sharief Hadeeth books as these are Principle books agreed upon by all those sects (Brelvis, Deobandis, Ahle-Hadeeths) who Identify with Ahle-Sunnat. A Commission can Easily Derive an Islamic Basic Law from these Books and no one in their right mind will Question it. On matters which are not mentioned there use common law followed by Rest of the world. Most of Shia and Sunni basic law will be same as Fundamentals of Islam are same on matters where there will be Difference's of Opinion Eg. Zakat a Dual Mechanism could be made.

Coming to Minorities Islam allows Parallel Judicial System for them they wont be judged by Muslims but their own Judges and system. Minorities in Muslim lands ruled by Islam will have same Protections and Rights as the rest of Population as they would be tax payers of the same state as the Rest of Population. There is no where Islam says to kill Minorities Burn their Places of Worship, Force them to convert. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) even allowed Christians to Pray inside Prophets Mosque. It is the Incompetence of Law and order in Muslim Majority states that Presents this Attitude. Dont present your Ignorance on these matters as Islam.

P.S.
Pakistan has never been Ruled by a Religious leader all our Leaders were either Military Dictators Each with his Own Agenda and Centrists or Secular men/women. So Dont Bring this Argument that Islam Ruined us its the other way we around we ruined Islam.

Beautiful post brother. It is 100% truth.

Muslims gave a bad name to Islam by not following Islam properly.

It is time we fix ourselves first, it is the first step towards fixing the society.

Every Pakistani needs to look in themselves, if they are doing something involving corruption, illegal wealth, or hurting interests of the nation. We can change the society by mending our heart.