Warplanes: Pakistan Gets More Zs

[waz]

Errrr, I meant that does the Apache carry Sidewinder...?

Yes it can. But it tends not to as air defence is covered by the USAF.

 

[Paksanity]

There isn't anything out there better than the Viper bar the Apache (latest bloc), hence the expense.

War veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan always preferred support from AH-1s than AH-64s while in the battle. If their reaction on the Web is to be believed. Most of them say Cobras are nimble, agile and tend to get the job done more often than Apache.

 

[Moon]

Yes it can. But it tends not to as air defence is covered by the USAF.

Oh, I see, thanks for your input. So apart from payload and range, there isn't much advantage of the Blk 2 Apache over the Zulu, right? And the Zulu is coming in cheaper. How would a Zulu pit against a Mi-28?

 

[waz]

War veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan always preferred support from AH-1s than AH-64s while in the battle. If their reaction on the Web is to be believed. Most of them say Cobras are nimble, agile and tend to get the job done more often than Apache.

I've seen the same from US servicemen.

Oh, I see, thanks for your input. So apart from payload and range, there isn't much advantage of the Blk 2 Apache over the Zulu, right? And the Zulu is coming in cheaper. How would a Zulu pit against a Mi-28?

There is no advantage, the avionics are the same, as is the performance and payload. But do remember we are not getting the Longbow radar with the Vipers, which isn't ideal. I have heard follow on orders will come with the Longbow.
The MI-28 compares well in terms of weapons and performance, but is no where near the level of the Viper and the Apache in terms of avionics. The two (Viper and Apache) are the best attack choppers in the world period.

 

[Quwa]

It was said already, but it's part of the 15 the U.S. already agree to sell us.

We ordered 2 or 3 in August 2015, and 9 recently. So we have about 3 or 4 left to order in order to fulfill the contract.

That said, given the cost involved in setting up the infrastructure, I wouldn't be surprised if we see another AH-1Z order. Adding another 10-15 shouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.

I wonder if there's any value in having the UH-1Y as well. It has 85%+ commonality with the AH-1Z, could it make for a good replacement of our oldest Hueys? Perhaps the Alouette III?

 

[nana41]

April 17, 2016: The U.S. recently agreed to a sell Pakistan another nine AH-1Z “Viper” helicopter gunships along with spare parts (mainly additional engines) and tech support for $170 million. All this will be delivered by late 2018. This comes soon after a late 2015 deal, worth $953 million, that sold Pakistan 15 AH-1Zs, a thousand Hellfire missiles along with supporting military equipment and services. The U.S. has been working out the details of this latest purchase since early 2015 after agreeing to deal with years of Pakistani requests for more helicopter gunships.

What may have persuaded the Americans to move forward on this request was the late 2014 Russian offer to sell Pakistan twenty Mi-35 helicopter gunships. Shortly after Pakistan confirmed this purchase the U.S. agreed to discuss terms on the AH-1Z idea. The AH-1Z has been essential in the two year battle with Islamic terrorists in northwest Pakistan. The AH-1s are a lot more flexible than the smart bomb equipped F-16s that Pakistan also uses and the troops on the ground usually prefer helicopter gunship support. This is mainly because the helicopters arrive more quickly, stay around longer and provide ground troops with real time reports on what the enemy is up to. This has kept enemy casualties up (over 3,400 dead so far) and friendly losses down (fewer than 500 soldiers killed.)

Russia offers Mi-35 helicopter gunships which are adequate but not as effective as the AH-1s. The Mi-35 is a twelve ton helicopter gunship that also has a cargo area that can hold up to eight people or four stretchers. The Mi-24/35 can carry rockets, missiles bombs, and automatic cannon. It is used by over thirty countries and has a pretty good reputation for reliability. The design is based on the 1960s era Mi-8 transport helicopter. The Pakistan Army has been desperate to get all the helicopter gunships it can as these aircraft have proved a key weapon in the battles against Islamic terrorists in the tribal territories. The Pakistani government is always short of cash. The Russians are not known for offering generous credit terms like they did in the Cold War, but deals can be made if the long term benefit is attractive enough. Russia saw a helicopter sale to Pakistan as a long term investment.

Pakistan has long sought more helicopter gunships to supplement and eventually replace the 35 American AH-1S and AH-1F gunships it originally had. Over a third of these have been lost in the last few years in the tribal territories where helicopter gunships are heavily used and frequently shot at. Second-hand gunships are what the government has been used to paying for. So getting new stuff from Russia, on attractive terms, was an offer that could not be refused.

For years Pakistan tried to obtain the American 6.6 ton AH-1W model from the United States. This would have been a major upgrade for the Pakistanis. Developed by the U.S. Marine Corps the W model was configured for naval use, and has two engines and protection against sea water corrosion. Like the AH-1F model used by Pakistan, the AH-1W has a crew of two and is armed with a 20mm, 3 barrel, autocannon (with 750 rounds) and can carry eight TOW missiles or 38 70mm unguided rockets. Typical sorties last about three hours (twice that of the AH-1F). The Pakistanis are also equipping their gunships with night vision (thermal imaging) equipment.

Meanwhile the U.S. Marine Corps was upgrading the AH-1W and in 2011 declared its new AH-1Z attack helicopter operational and sent some of them to Afghanistan. The marines had been working on this new aircraft since 2006. Basically, the AH-1Z is created by remanufacturing older AH-1T/W attack helicopters into AH-1Z models. This produces a helicopter with a 10,000 hours (in the air) airframe, new engines, new electronics and an updated and much more effective gunship. There have been some problems with the fire control system (which is, when it works, similar to what the latest AH-64s have), that caused some delays. However, the marines were able to catch up, and the AH-1Z kept to its scheduled entry into service. The marines plan to have 189 AH-1Zs by 2020. This will include 131 remanufactured AH-1Ws and 58 AH-1Zs that will be manufactured new.

The AH-1Z model upgrade uses a new 4 bladed composite rotor system, transmission, strengthened structural components, and modern digital cockpit avionics. The 8 ton AH-1Z is armed with a three barrel 20mm Gatling gun (and 750 rounds) and eight Hellfire missiles. It can also carry two Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The AH-1Z can operate around the clock, in all kinds of weather. Sorties last about two hours each and cruising speed is 248 kilometers an hour.

In the third paragraph of the article,it is said that these machines will be used against the " Islamic "Terrorist in tribal areas of Pakistan.I would like to know where did you copy this article from,please.

In the third paragraph of the article,it is said that these machines will be used against the " Islamic "Terrorist in tribal areas of Pakistan.I would like to know where did you copy this article from,please.

Pakistan,if she has learnt any lesson from the history of U S-PAK relations,should remember U S has developed the practice of delivering the goods paid in cash or through fms ,even if 2nd hand,in 5 to 8 years .As uh-1z are required today urgeantly in Fata, thus having enough time to refuse,cancel or minipulate and get as much political dividend as possible.The latest case being the supply of 6 ex-Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates tacitly agreed 5 years ago but cancelled the agreement after supplying only one ship.Pakistan Navy not only lost precious time but have to re adjust and manage extra funds.Hence Pakistan should prepare plans to acquire Chinese/Russian machines just in case..