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Wanted dead, not alive: France's approach to French jihadists

Vergennes

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French citizens are among the biggest contingent of overseas fighters who have joined IS, with around 1,000 nationals estimated by counter-terror officials to have travelled to Iraq and Syria. France doesn't want them back.

France's attitude to the killing of its citizens in Syria fighting for the Islamic State group has rarely been as frankly stated as it was in the lead up to the fall of Raqa.

"We are committed along with our allies to the destruction of Daesh (Islamic State) and we're doing everything to that end," Defence Minister Florence Parly told reporters at the weekend.

"What we want is to go to the end of this combat and of course if jihadists die in the fighting, then I'd say it's for the best," she added.

French citizens are among the biggest contingent of overseas fighters who have joined IS, with around 1,000 nationals estimated by counter-terror officials to have travelled to Iraq and Syria.

Their return home to a country that has faced the worst of the IS-inspired violence in Europe since 2015 -- which has claimed 241 lives -- has long worried government and intelligence officials in Paris.

Aside from the obvious moral issues, a dead jihadist poses far fewer problems for French and European authorities than a captured one.

First, there are the legal problems associated with a prisoner taken on the battlefield in Iraq or Syria.

Under what jurisdiction should he or she be tried? And for what crimes? In Iraq, for example, they could face the death penalty, which the European Union and member states officially oppose.

Should they be extradited for trial in their home countries then -- which requires an extradition treaty? What evidence, collected by whom, would be used in a domestic court?

Furthermore, judges and anti-terror prosecutors are already struggling to cope with the ever-increasing caseload related to extremism across Europe and
would be swamped by potentially hundreds of new trials.

Once convicted, the jihadists become a security risk in jail because of the danger that they will radicalise other inmates -- already a problem in prisons
across Europe.

"There will be negotiations with the countries concerned," French European lawmaker Arnaud Danjean, the lead author of a recent French strategic military review, told France Inter radio on Wednesday.

"There's not only France that is concerned, there's Belgium, the United States," he added.

'War brings risks'

A US military official said Tuesday that about 400 Islamic State members including foreign fighters had surrendered in Raqa as US-backed forces closed in on the city notorious for its atrocities under the rule of the Sunni extremists.

Resistance around a city hospital and stadium was ultimately less than expected as IS forces either gave up or withdrew to the small strip of territory still under the group's control in neighbouring Deir Ezzor province.

In May, the Wall Street Journal published an investigation that claimed that French special forces had provided a hitlist to Iraqi forces of around 30
men who were "identified as high value targets".

Asked afterwards to comment, a spokesman for the new government of centrist President Emmanuel Macron did not deny France carried out killings -- a policy
that was confirmed by previous president Francois Hollande.

"I say to all fighters who join the Islamic State group and then go abroad to wage war: waging war brings risks, and they must accept those risks,"
Christophe Castaner told reporters.

Speaking to journalists for a book published last year, Hollande confirmed that he had personally authorised at least four killings of "high value
targets" by special forces in what are known as "homocide" operations in France.

Another estimate by the journalist Vincent Nouzille, who wrote a book on the subject, said French forces had killed around 40 nationals during his five-year term.

'Our aim is to kill them'

As IS jihadists flee Raqa and face imminent defeat elsewhere in their shrinking "caliphate", the question for French and other Western governments will be how to deal with the holdouts.

In June, French magazine Paris Match also published a report quoting Iraqi officials around the city of Mosul before it was recaptured by US and
French-backed forces.

Abdelghani al-Assadi, a top commander in the Counter-Terrorism Service, said the Iraqis had an understanding with France that they would mop up the jihadists to prevent them from returning home.

"We will prevent as much as possible any French person leaving Mosul alive," he was quoted as saying. "Our aim is to kill them so that no one from Daesh can flee."

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171018/wanted-dead-not-alive-frances-approach-to-is-jihadists
 
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30351247c086521e40021708cbd1922fb0e9def651109bf6aea7a50b5f4b76e8.jpg


French citizens are among the biggest contingent of overseas fighters who have joined IS, with around 1,000 nationals estimated by counter-terror officials to have travelled to Iraq and Syria. France doesn't want them back.

France's attitude to the killing of its citizens in Syria fighting for the Islamic State group has rarely been as frankly stated as it was in the lead up to the fall of Raqa.

"We are committed along with our allies to the destruction of Daesh (Islamic State) and we're doing everything to that end," Defence Minister Florence Parly told reporters at the weekend.

"What we want is to go to the end of this combat and of course if jihadists die in the fighting, then I'd say it's for the best," she added.

French citizens are among the biggest contingent of overseas fighters who have joined IS, with around 1,000 nationals estimated by counter-terror officials to have travelled to Iraq and Syria.

Their return home to a country that has faced the worst of the IS-inspired violence in Europe since 2015 -- which has claimed 241 lives -- has long worried government and intelligence officials in Paris.

Aside from the obvious moral issues, a dead jihadist poses far fewer problems for French and European authorities than a captured one.

First, there are the legal problems associated with a prisoner taken on the battlefield in Iraq or Syria.

Under what jurisdiction should he or she be tried? And for what crimes? In Iraq, for example, they could face the death penalty, which the European Union and member states officially oppose.

Should they be extradited for trial in their home countries then -- which requires an extradition treaty? What evidence, collected by whom, would be used in a domestic court?

Furthermore, judges and anti-terror prosecutors are already struggling to cope with the ever-increasing caseload related to extremism across Europe and
would be swamped by potentially hundreds of new trials.

Once convicted, the jihadists become a security risk in jail because of the danger that they will radicalise other inmates -- already a problem in prisons
across Europe.

"There will be negotiations with the countries concerned," French European lawmaker Arnaud Danjean, the lead author of a recent French strategic military review, told France Inter radio on Wednesday.

"There's not only France that is concerned, there's Belgium, the United States," he added.

'War brings risks'

A US military official said Tuesday that about 400 Islamic State members including foreign fighters had surrendered in Raqa as US-backed forces closed in on the city notorious for its atrocities under the rule of the Sunni extremists.

Resistance around a city hospital and stadium was ultimately less than expected as IS forces either gave up or withdrew to the small strip of territory still under the group's control in neighbouring Deir Ezzor province.

In May, the Wall Street Journal published an investigation that claimed that French special forces had provided a hitlist to Iraqi forces of around 30
men who were "identified as high value targets".

Asked afterwards to comment, a spokesman for the new government of centrist President Emmanuel Macron did not deny France carried out killings -- a policy
that was confirmed by previous president Francois Hollande.

"I say to all fighters who join the Islamic State group and then go abroad to wage war: waging war brings risks, and they must accept those risks,"
Christophe Castaner told reporters.

Speaking to journalists for a book published last year, Hollande confirmed that he had personally authorised at least four killings of "high value
targets" by special forces in what are known as "homocide" operations in France.

Another estimate by the journalist Vincent Nouzille, who wrote a book on the subject, said French forces had killed around 40 nationals during his five-year term.

'Our aim is to kill them'

As IS jihadists flee Raqa and face imminent defeat elsewhere in their shrinking "caliphate", the question for French and other Western governments will be how to deal with the holdouts.

In June, French magazine Paris Match also published a report quoting Iraqi officials around the city of Mosul before it was recaptured by US and
French-backed forces.

Abdelghani al-Assadi, a top commander in the Counter-Terrorism Service, said the Iraqis had an understanding with France that they would mop up the jihadists to prevent them from returning home.

"We will prevent as much as possible any French person leaving Mosul alive," he was quoted as saying. "Our aim is to kill them so that no one from Daesh can flee."

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171018/wanted-dead-not-alive-frances-approach-to-is-jihadists

I'm pretty sure that 1,000 has been whittled down a great deal. Many of the UK ones have been killed, some estimates state the casualty rate is as high as 80%.
These vermin ceased to be French the moment they pledged to fight for their beloved Baghdadi. I hope they enjoy their "state", it must be awesome scurrying around with the rats in the rubble, avoiding air strikes and escaping the Iraqi army who want to behead them.
 
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Europe is losing its humanity fast with this kind of crap. This is not how you fix the problem.

Who am I kidding. People would rather throw fuel into a fire like this one.
 
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problem solution=cut all your ties with CIA,MOSSAD,
and also RAW.

even the kids know Islamic State group is the production of
MOSSAD CIA
 
. .
problem solution=cut all your ties with CIA,MOSSAD,
and also RAW.

even the kids know Islamic State group is the production of
MOSSAD CIA

This morning my slice of bread covered of nutella fell on the ground.

Tsssss,must be those cryptojews of the Mossad/CIA again !

Europe is losing its humanity fast with this kind of crap. This is not how you fix the problem.

Who am I kidding. People would rather throw fuel into a fire like this one.

Nobody will care if they all die there.

They betrayed the nation by fighting for the enemy. Their death will also save the taxpayers lot of money and the justice precious time and ressources. They are going to pose a serious threat to the society behind bars (infecting others with their nauseabond ideology) and once they'll get out.
 
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Why do these terrorists want to come back to civilization?

Europe has one of the most dense airspace in the world.

Why do they leave the civilization, in the first place?

I have seen too many overseas Pakistanis exhibit disturbing traits and line of thinking, at times. Most of them know what a life in third world country is like. I don't understand the reluctance to adapt or at least tolerate the culture, vision and values of the country, they have adopted by their own choice (usually)
 
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Keep your biases to yourself please.

I might be biased. But it is visible, if you work your way towards threads which compare cultures, even if indirectly. Lately, the thread relating to "Pakistanis criticizing the dressing of Malala Yousufzai at Oxford". Please, do have a look. The rampant Jihadism in the United Kingdom might be another place, to see what I am saying.

And I am sorry, if my remarks offended you. But I am saying its too many (in my observation) and not all.
 
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Why do these terrorists want to come back to civilization?

Europe has one of the most dense airspace in the world.
what civilization?... the one that surrenders hundred years of liberty in the first sign of trouble... I mean did not these european countries lecture 'humane' ways to third world poor countries that lack training/intelligence/weapon to deal with terror...
i wonder what will happen to french republic if it faces challenge like pakistan/afganistan... probably full on civil war.
 
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Why do they leave the civilization, in the first place?
I have seen too many overseas Pakistanis exhibit disturbing traits and line of thinking, at times. Most of them know what a life in third world country is like. I don't understand the reluctance to adapt or at least tolerate the culture, vision and values of the country, they have adopted by their own choice (usually)

French Muslims are mostly immigrants or their children from former French Colonies in Africa/Middle East.

Pakistanis in France number maybe no more than 90,000 among the almost 5 million Muslims. With much less economical grievances than other Muslim communities.

Europeans like to "educate" America in human rights, specially race relations, but they've failed to consider that themselves and certain populations still consider themselves to have a "white mans burden" for former French colonials.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170922/how-do-muslims-in-france-feel-about-their-country
 
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Europe is losing its humanity fast with this kind of crap. This is not how you fix the problem.

Who am I kidding. People would rather throw fuel into a fire like this one.

Okay let's show humanity & give them free hand to butcher innocent civilians...
 
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Guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty?

One of these two is better than the other.

They have proven themselves guilty by joining ISIS. I mean, they didn't exactly join ISIS to sell girl scout cookies, did they? The French citizens who have ran away to join ISIS are all either active combatants or part of other networks that have or are planning to carry out terrorist attacks.

Which court of law are you going to bring in a guy who wears a suicide vest all the time to avoid capture?
 
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