VinFast: Vietnam EV maker valued at more than Ford or GM

[Viet]

Well, that's market fluctuations. I mean, those regular spectator trying to get into the game and going after what share they can. There are more demand of the stock than people are buying, hence the price.

A modest estimation on this share is about 25-30/share, again, as with my previous assessment, I would look about another month unless I am really in this spectator mood and fancy a gamble.

I think 6 months.
Then the freeze is over. More shares will be uploaded to the market.
Then 12 months another batch of shares
Until then everyone trades with its own risk.

 

[Han Patriot]

Have you ever invested anything? Yes, what do you think share buy backs are?

Share re-purchase does not work on bumping share price that much, you can get a more stable share price, but not going 5 times the offering price. You do share buyback WHEN YOU HAVE AN UNDERVALUED SHARE, because it increases the liquidity of the stock and help improve the stock price but it DECREASE that company cashflow.

Buy back only make sense when Vinfast is trading at 15 and they think they are undervalued, who the hell in their right mind will buy back their share at 35 when they open on Nasdaq at 15? which is twice the offering price? Let alone at 49, which is now. And if you are accusing Vinfast of doign buyback at 49, then I would like you to short them like you said you would do.

So yes, what DO you think share buy back is?

Hey dumfck i just said the same thing. The company made the 200mil a year in profit with an ROI of 10%. So. It was UNDER VALUED. It was manipulated by hype to drop in value but people in the company knew it's real value. Same case with Vinfast, an overvalued company based on hype and it will ultimately drop back to. It's real value. Same with the tulip mania, people just don't learn.

Geesh are you dmb or something. Want to add exports to manufacturing numbers again? Hahahahahah

 

[Viet]

I know more about the corrupt Vietnamese. They would operate like this:
1, put less than 1% of their shares into the market.
2, speculate on these very small number of shares themselves to inflate the price of the shares.
3, bribe Vietnamese officials to pledge the remaining 99% of their shares to extract loans from Vietnamese banks at inflated stock price valuations.



This stock, with a market cap of over $100 billion, has extremely low volume and turnover. The average trading volume is only 765k and the turnover rate is only 0.24%. Its market capitalization is obviously being pulled up maliciously. This blatant trap cannot attract any sensible money into it; it can only be used for special purposes.

View attachment 948373
View attachment 948374

Nonsense
The shares met all requirements for listing, they are traded at Nasdaq, not in Venezuela or elsewhere third world. Any stock market manipulation will be detected immediately. About volume, yesterday 13 million shares were traded. That’s about 530 million USD. That’s one of the most traded stocks.

 

[jhungary]

Hey dumfck i just said the same thing. The company made the 200mil a year in profit with an ROI of 10%. So. It was UNDER VALUED. It was manipulated by hype to drop in value but people in the company knew it's real value. Same case with Vinfast, an overvalued company based on hype and it will ultimately drop back to. It's real value. Same with the tulip mania, people just don't learn.

Geesh are you dmb or something. Want to add exports to manufacturing numbers again? Hahahahahah

Before you insult people, can you use your brain sometime??

Do you even know how stock market work?

Hype at 49? You do know if they have enough money to buy majority of their share back at 49, THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FINANCIAL BACKING TO HOLD AT THAT SHARE PRICE, on top of that, they are still holding 99% of the share, it's virtually non-impact even if they buy back that 1% in entirety

You buy back share when THEY ARE UNDER YOUR ESTIMATE, not 3 times higher than the initial estimation. $49 a share is NOT under Vinfast Estimate........

Gosh......I am like talking to a stock market idiot. Did you just look at a dictionary and start talking trash about it when you know nothing about what it means?

@Mista you need to come check out this clown

I think 6 months.
Then the freeze is over. More shares will be uploaded to the market.
Then 12 months another batch of shares
Until then everyone trades with its own risk.

Or all this is just a farce and it's like the idiot above that said Vinfast is buying back all their share after going all time high?? LOL

What a stupid guy

 

[CIA Mole]

Nonsense
The shares met all requirements for listing, they are traded at Nasdaq, not in Venezuela or elsewhere third world. Any stock market manipulation will be detected immediately. About volume, yesterday 13 million shares were traded. That’s about 530 million USD. That’s one of the most traded stocks.

China regulator urges stricter monitoring of unusual stock trading

China's stock market regulator on Monday urged securities firms to review how suitable trades are for their clients and to better monitor abnormal trades.

www.reuters.com

Chinese Nasdaq listings the next meme stock rally?

Small and micro-cap Chinese companies listed in the U.S. are experiencing a surge in share prices, similar to the 2020 meme rallies during COVID. These rallies appear driven by social media sites used by individual traders and financial influencers. To Find out the inside Scoop, subscribe to...

microcapdaily.com

Chinese small-cap stocks surge in meme-like rally

The U.S.-listed shares of small and micro-cap Chinese firms soared on Friday, reminiscent of meme-like rallies last summer that were underpinned by strong demand from retail investors.

www.reuters.com

chinese stocks are famous for scammy manipulation on nasdaq and home market

 

[Han Patriot]

Before you insult people, can you use your brain sometime??

Do you even know how stock market work?

Hype at 49? You do know if they have enough money to buy majority of their share back at 49, THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FINANCIAL BACKING TO HOLD AT THAT SHARE PRICE, on top of that, they are still holding 99% of the share, it's virtually non-impact even if they buy back that 1% in entirety

You buy back share when THEY ARE UNDER YOUR ESTIMATE, not 3 times higher than the initial estimation. $49 a share is NOT under Vinfast Estimate........

Gosh......I am like talking to a stock market idiot. Did you just look at a dictionary and start talking trash about it when you know nothing about what it means?

@Mista you need to come check out this clown


Or all this is just a farce and it's like the idiot above that said Vinfast is buying back all their share after going all time high?? LOL

What a stupid guy

Not sure wht you are laughing when I basically just said th3 same thing, th3 company is UNDERVALUED, UNDERESTIMATED. Share prices manipulated by MARKET SENTIMENTAL SHEEPLE due to some hype news. The point I am trying to make is company based on substance has value not hype. I think you have an understanding issue.

Oo baby mullato need Papa Mista to rescue him now? Hahahhahahah. It is just a forum, don't have to be so serious ok. Help me big brother... Lolol

Well my dad's boss who happens to be a bilionaire is sooooo stoopid huh. He sold his shares in an IPO for 1$, bought it back at 0.2$ and now it is worth 2.5$ Mr. Lng/48% there is no secret formula, when you fxking own the company and knows it is highly profitable and the markets are working on hype, YOU BUYBACK! That's the reason why you are not a billionaire and he is one.

Whether Vinfast is a hype, let's bet. I dared you to a simple bet but you insist in complicating it to an escrow. Come on chicken hawk. How many time have i proven you wrong Mr. 48%.

 

[jhungary]

Not sure wht you are laughing when I basically just said th3 same thing, th3 company is UNDERVALUED, UNDERESTIMATED. Share prices manipulated by MARKET SENTIMENTAL SHEEPLE due to some hype news. The point I am trying to make is company based on substance has value not hype. I think you have an understanding issue.


Well my dad's boss who happens to be a bilionaire is sooooo stoopid huh. He sold his shares in an IPO for 1$, bought it back at 0.2$ and now it is worth 2.5$ Mr. Lng/48% there is no secret formula, when you fxking own the company and knows it is highly profitable and the markets are working on hype, YOU BUYBACK! That's the reason why you are not a billionaire and he is one. Hahahah

Vinfast is OVERVALUED.......

You do know what is undervalue? Right? Under value is it worth 40 bil but you can only get 20 bil market cap on your IPO, that's undervalue.

Overvalue is your company is worth 23 bil and you get a market cap of 85 billions, that's overvalue, which is the case of Vinfast. And in this case, buying back share DOES NOT WORK, because you would have to hold the share at a higher, A LOT HIGHER than the money you actually had.

You don't buy back the share WHEN YOUR COMPANY IS ALREADY HYPED - WHICH IS NOW. Unless you are saying Vinfast actually worth 200 billion and you have a larger margin to sell, then yes, you buy the share now and hype up the price further to the level you want.

And I own 2 company in China, and 1 in Australia, 3 farm in the US along with my sibling and I have 2 homes in the US, 1 home in Australia and 1 in Hong Kong,. And had been speculated in Stock/Commodity Market for 20 years. Me, my brother and my sister together worth over 100 million US dollars. So, you are saying?

 

[CIA Mole]

lol there is no share buyback when the guy owns 99%

elon can buy back pieces of tesla when it drops in value since he can also singlehandedly steer/manipulate tesla valuation

 

[Viet]

China regulator urges stricter monitoring of unusual stock trading

China's stock market regulator on Monday urged securities firms to review how suitable trades are for their clients and to better monitor abnormal trades.

www.reuters.com

Chinese Nasdaq listings the next meme stock rally?

Small and micro-cap Chinese companies listed in the U.S. are experiencing a surge in share prices, similar to the 2020 meme rallies during COVID. These rallies appear driven by social media sites used by individual traders and financial influencers. To Find out the inside Scoop, subscribe to...

microcapdaily.com

Chinese small-cap stocks surge in meme-like rally

The U.S.-listed shares of small and micro-cap Chinese firms soared on Friday, reminiscent of meme-like rallies last summer that were underpinned by strong demand from retail investors.

www.reuters.com

chinese stocks are famous for scammy manipulation on nasdaq and home market

China now is not a place for investment. Well, Ccp wants confrontation with the US, with the west, with the eastern neighbors. they get it. The tension will get worse. That’s why foreigners pull money out of China. Look at Chinese stock markets. Down almost 1 trillion USD in recent days. Everything has a price tag.

Foreign selling hammers Chinese stocks in near US$1 trillion wipeout

Global asset managers have dumped Chinese onshore stocks at an unprecedented pace this month that triggered a US$900 billion destruction of market value after a gloomy growth outlook, feeble stimulus, and unresolved geopolitical conflicts convinced investors the rout is far from over.

amp.scmp.com

 

[jhungary]

lol there is no share buyback when the guy owns 99%

elon can buy back pieces of tesla when it drops in value since he can also singlehandedly steer/manipulate tesla valuation

nooooooo.......what the guy said MUST BE TRUE

He also said Vinfast is UNDERVALUED.....

We should believe him.......Screw Bloomberg, they are wrong.

MSN

VinFast: Significantly Overvalued​

VinFast: Significantly Overvalued​

Aug. 24, 2023 3:31 PM ETVinFast Auto Ltd. (VFS)3 Comments

UFD Capital
969 Followers
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Summary​

• VinFast's market cap of over $85 billion is likely the result of a small float.
• The company's financials are abysmal, with low revenue, deeply negative gross margins, a large debt load, and a negative book value.
• The competitive nature of the EV market and the need for capex funding further add to the risks of investing in VinFast.
• We believe the company is extremely overvalued and that investors should stay far away.

Alex Wong

Thesis​

After their post-IPO surge, VinFast (NASDAQ:VFS) now has a market cap of over $85 billion. This appears to be an overly optimistic valuation and is likely the result of a small float which will eventually get much larger. The company is in a terrible financial position and future dilution is likely. Even in a highly optimistic scenario the company will have difficulty growing into their current valuation. In our opinion, the company is overvalued and investors should stay far away from this stock.

Meteoric Rise​

For those of you unfamiliar with the company, VinFast is a Vietnamese EV startup founded in 2017 that is seeking to expand into North America as well as continue to sell in Southeast Asia. The company currently has a limited lineup of EV models and is seeking to expand their offerings over the coming years. Their goal of expanding in both geographies served and available models will require a significant amount of capex.


VinFast Company Presentation August 2023



VinFast Company Presentation August 2023

VinFast Company Presentation August 2023

VinFast went public via a SPAC merger on August 14. Since then, the stock has rocketed up from the roughly $10 a share SPAC price to over $36. This puts their current market cap at over $85 billion, a value which is well above many of their EV startup peers as well as legacy auto. On the surface, this is an impressive feat for a startup competing in a highly competitive market. Unfortunately for investors, what's under the hood is ugly.

Data by YCharts

Data by YCharts

House of Cards​

Many investors are probably wondering why VinFast is valued so highly. In our opinion, the major reason is likely due to a low float. According to Forbes, "Pham Nhat Vuong, chairman of VinFast’s parent company in Vietnam, controlled at a minimum 99.1% of the company’s shares before it merged with Black Spade. The company declined to say what exact percentage of shares outstanding are currently publicly traded". On top of this, shareholders of Black Spade Acquisition redeemed over 80% of the shares in the SPAC vehicle before the merger took place. The end result of these factors is an insanely small float available for trade, and a stock that is highly volatile and easy to move.
This would be fine if the company was an established business that could justify their valuation with fundamentals, however, this is not the case. In the quarter ended March 31, 2023 the company had revenue of just $83 million, gross margins of -193%, and a net loss of $597 million. The company is drowning in both hard debt (short and long term conventional debt) and soft debt (payables, etc). As of March 31 they had a book value of -$2.1 billion. On top of weak fundamentals and an unproven business, the company will likely need to dilute shareholders to fund capex.


Income Statement (VinFast Form 20-F)



Balance Sheet (VinFast Form 20-F)

Balance Sheet (VinFast Form 20-F)

On a PS basis, the company is currently trading at an eye watering multiple of over 256 (extrapolating their March quarter forward). The company will likely grow so this PS is overstated, however the main issue is that they are still wildly overvalued with poor financials and an impaired ability to spend money on capex and expand. Their PE and BV ratios are both negative. Their debt load far exceeds their available liquidity.
Estimating a fair value for the company is difficult in this case. Given the company's challenged financials (specifically their high debt load relative to liquidity and negative book value) we don't view any price as being worth paying at this time. The operations have negative gross margins and the company has a negative book value, so both their operations and financial assets currently hold a negative value. In every respect, this remains a bottomless money pit until proven otherwise. We certainly don't think the company is worth nothing, however this is to say that the value of the company has a lot to do with the unavoidable dilution that is coming and how much money the company can raise rather than their current fundamentals.
While VinFast may very well end up being a successful company, the current valuation is a house of cards that is not supported by the fundamentals. Dilution of some form is likely on the way as the company is already burdened with a large debt load relative to their asset base and would have difficulty securing additional debt financing.
Of importance is the sheer amount of EV startups entering the ring. VinFast is one of many. If they are unable to both fund the necessary capex and produce high quality vehicles, the company will undoubtably see their valuation incinerated in due time. Even with flawless execution, it appears unlikely that VinFast can sustain their current valuation given the fundamentals at play as well as the competitiveness of the market they are in.

Risks​

The main risk to this bearish view on VinFast is the potential for them to raise large amounts of equity capital thanks to their elevated valuation, essentially becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is certainly possible, and the company could get funding from Vingroup themselves. In such a scenario, we still believe that this dilution would cause the share price to decline, as the valuation is simply too extreme at these levels.
Another risk to this bearish view is the potential for VinFast to produce cars that outcompete the alternatives and rapidly gain market share and notoriety. While this is possible, the sheer amount of competition in the auto market makes this a difficult proposition. This is especially true for an EV startup, of which there are many.
We view the current risk/reward to be atrocious and wouldn't consider touching this stock until they fix their seriously damaged financials and the valuation falls substantially.

Key Takeaway​

VinFast is a stock that investors should stay far away from. The company is unproven and their financials are abysmal. The market they are entering is exceedingly competitive. The company is vastly overvalued at these levels. Don't be lured in by short-term share price moves that are facilitated by a very low float.

 

[Han Patriot]

Vinfast is OVERVALUED.......

You do know what is undervalue? Right? Under value is it worth 40 bil but you can only get 20 bil market cap on your IPO, that's undervalue.

Overvalue is your company is worth 23 bil and you get a market cap of 85 billions, that's overvalue, which is the case of Vinfast. And in this case, buying back share DOES NOT WORK, because you would have to hold the share at a higher, A LOT HIGHER than the money you actually had.

You don't buy back the share WHEN YOUR COMPANY IS ALREADY HYPED - WHICH IS NOW. Unless you are saying Vinfast actually worth 200 billion and you have a larger margin to sell, then yes, you buy the share now and hype up the price further to the level you want.

And I own 2 company in China, and 1 in Australia, 3 farm in the US along with my sibling and I have 2 homes in the US, 1 home in Australia and 1 in Hong Kong,. And had been speculated in Stock/Commodity Market for 20 years. Me, my brother and my sister together worth over 100 million US dollars. So, you are saying?

Hey dumfck, i said Vinfast is a hype and overvalued company, and I said my Dad's company is under valued. Can you fcking please read. Do you have an understanding problem?

I will take that claim with a lot of salt, specially for someone who is from Vietnam.

They can't even make automotive steel.

 

[jhungary]

Hey dumfck, i said Vinfast is a hype and overvalued company, and I said my Dad's company is under valued. Can you fcking please read. Do you have an understanding problem?View attachment 948415

Again, before you insult someone

This is what you said

Well my dad's boss who happens to be a bilionaire is sooooo stoopid huh. He sold his shares in an IPO for 1$, bought it back at 0.2$ and now it is worth 2.5$ Mr. Lng/48% there is no secret formula, when you fxking own the company and knows it is highly profitable and the markets are working on hype, YOU BUYBACK! That's the reason why you are not a billionaire and he is one.

If your dad's boss company is IPO for $1 and he buy back the share at 0.2 - THAT'S OVERVALUE too. because $1 > 20 Cents.....Undervalue is your share price is worth $1, but it is opening for 0.2. And your dad's boss company sitaution is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE to Vinfast.

Again, Daddy Boss company open at $1, he buy them at 0.2, and now worth $2.5 that's buy back bump up the share price
Vinfast open at $15, you are accusing them on buying back at 49. That's a different scenario, again, unless you expect vinfast to go as high as $100/share. That's NOT THE SAME.

If you made a mistake just admit it and move on, keep digging a hole bigger and bigger only make you look like an idilo

 

[Han Patriot]

Again, before you insult someone

This is what you said

If your dad's boss company is IPO for $1 and he buy back the share at 0.2 - THAT'S OVERVALUE too. because $1 > 20 Cents.....Undervalue is your share price is worth $1, but it is opening for 0.2. And your dad's boss company sitaution is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE to Vinfast.

Again, Daddy Boss company open at $1, he buy them at 0.2, and now worth $2.5 that's buy back bump
Vinfast open at $15, you are accusing them on buying back at 49. That's a different scenario

If you made a mistake just admit it and move on, keep digging a hole bigger and bigger only make you look like an idilo

Explain to me how a share at IPO at 1$ and buying back at 0.2$ is OVERVALUED?

I did not even accuse Vinfast of any buyback at 49, you are free to screenshot it here if you like. I accused them of being a hype and OVERVALUED.

Here let me show you the definition of undervalued. Notice the word intrinsic value. My dad's boss knew it's intrinsic value. Gosh, are you really educated in economics and finance? These are very simple terms mate.

Hey J, seeiously, the more i talk to you, the more imbecilic you look. Lololol

 

[Viet]

Before you insult people, can you use your brain sometime??

Do you even know how stock market work?

Hype at 49? You do know if they have enough money to buy majority of their share back at 49, THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FINANCIAL BACKING TO HOLD AT THAT SHARE PRICE, on top of that, they are still holding 99% of the share, it's virtually non-impact even if they buy back that 1% in entirety

You buy back share when THEY ARE UNDER YOUR ESTIMATE, not 3 times higher than the initial estimation. $49 a share is NOT under Vinfast Estimate........

Gosh......I am like talking to a stock market idiot. Did you just look at a dictionary and start talking trash about it when you know nothing about what it means?

@Mista you need to come check out this clown


Or all this is just a farce and it's like the idiot above that said Vinfast is buying back all their share after going all time high?? LOL

What a stupid guy

VF stock is on the rise and nobody knows where is the peak. Buy back shares now is certainly utter nonsense.

 

[jhungary]

Explain to me how a share at IPO at 1$ and buying back at 0.2$ is OVERVALUED?

How? Do you really have to ask?

If you IPO 1 million shares, at $1 per share, your estimated Market Cap is 1 million by the time they estimate your share value/market cap.

When you buy that same 1 million shares back with $0.2 per share, your ACTUAL market cap is $200,000 so you tell me did they overvalued your company when they do IPO or they undervalue it?

What happened afterward is already manipulated, because your dad's boss ALREADY BUY BACK THE SHARE TO BUMP UP THE PRICE. His company did not worth 2.5 million, that's after the hype. His company worth, at the time he buy back the share, is $200,000

Geez, and I think Chinese is good at maths........

VF stock is on the rise and nobody knows where is the peak. Buy back shares now is certainly utter nonsense.

Well, if he think his dad's boss company IPO at $1 and he buy back the share at 0.2 is overvalued, he would think buying back Vinfast share make sense.

I don't know because I don't speak stupid as a language..........