Vietnam War: Tunnel Rats

[Psychic]

Problem is, as I said, if War is actually abiding to law, there will be no war. War created (No matter Who) on the basis of illegality, civilized people do not fight war, but civilized people do create war.





Actually you are right, but then the American have the right and did exercise this right by invading Afghanistan, and Okinawa

Civilised people do not create war but they defend themselves from unjustified aggression.
Fighting for something Honorable is a good thing but fighting for booty and real estate property is inhuman. Your uncle,grandfather had the option to refuse fighting.
I love my country and would fight for it but unlike you, I would refuse anything evil to do for my country. I would only do what's morally justified. I would never plant a bomb for my country to kill civilians of other country because it is against my philosophy.

US may anex Okinawa and carpet bomb Tora Bora, it's soldiers may rip out skulls and teeth of Japanese and pee on Afghan fighters, I am only saying that then why present yourselves as some righteous knights to the world and your enemies as evil beings.
Why play victims when your 3000 die and why play heroes when you kill half a million of other's civilians.

 

[jhungary]

Civilised people do not create war but they defend themselves from unjustified aggression.
Fighting for something Honorable is a good thing but fighting for booty and real estate property is inhuman. Your uncle,grandfather had the option to refuse fighting.
I love my country and would fight for it but unlike you, I would refuse anything evil to do for my country. I would only do what's morally justified. I would never plant a bomb for my country to kill civilians of other country because it is against my philosophy.

US may anex Okinawa and carpet bomb Tora Bora, it's soldiers may rip out skulls and teeth of Japanese and pee on Afghan fighters, I am only saying that then why present yourselves as some righteous knights to the world and your enemies as evil beings.
Why play victims when your 3000 die and why play heroes when you kill half a million of other's civilians.

I wish war fighting is really as simple as what you said.

The truth is, it cannot be a lot further from it.

I love my country and would fight for it but unlike you, I would refuse anything evil to do for my country

This sentence summed up your sentiment. What you need to do is, to define what is "evil" And how far you can go to survive in a war. You would not understand because you never had to hold down the barrel of a gun and fire at another human being, if anything, consider this is a blessing.

There are nothing "evil" in war, simply because everything is "evil" by a normal standard. Its easy for you to say now with hands over keyboard and probably sitting inside a quiet room with drink on your side, but when you have a guy standing in front of you, holding an AK-47 and ready to fire, and you are doing the same, and between you and him, there is an innocent child in the middle, would you press the trigger?

People don't know anything about war think war is glorious, you kill, you fight for your country, as with what I said on the other thread, you should never enlist if all you want to do is to fight for your country, cause patriotism is, frankly useless when the first bullet starting to fly over your head, what matter is how far you are willing to go to save yourselves, and save the person next to you, it may sound like a cliché, but this is what war actually look like, or you think we are sitting in the battlefield thinking "What the hell we are doing here?"

 

[Psychic]

I wish war fighting is really as simple as what you said.

The truth is, it cannot be a lot further from it.



This sentence summed up your sentiment. What you need to do is, to define what is "evil" And how far you can go to survive in a war. You would not understand because you never had to hold down the barrel of a gun and fire at another human being, if anything, consider this is a blessing.

There are nothing "evil" in war, simply because everything is "evil" by a normal standard. Its easy for you to say now with hands over keyboard and probably sitting inside a quiet room with drink on your side, but when you have a guy standing in front of you, holding an AK-47 and ready to fire, and you are doing the same, and between you and him, there is an innocent child in the middle, would you press the trigger?

People don't know anything about war think war is glorious, you kill, you fight for your country, as with what I said on the other thread, you should never enlist if all you want to do is to fight for your country, cause patriotism is, frankly useless when the first bullet starting to fly over your head, what matter is how far you are willing to go to save yourselves, and save the person next to you, it may sound like a cliché, but this is what war actually look like, or you think we are sitting in the battlefield thinking "What the hell we are doing here?"

1- I am fasting. Starving since 16 and a half hours in 40+ degree Celsius.
2- I think Geneva conventions defined evil and rules of fighting. One may kill his enemy but may not desecrate his dead body or torture a POW like what happened in Abu Gharib.
3- You have to make tough decisions in a battle field and sometimes you may kill women and children but the point is did you kill them intentionally or not. John Kerry said US troops did murder, plunder and rape in Vietnam. I did the same. He is ashamed of what he did.
Now tell me, is there a difference between murder, rape and plunder and collateral damage or not? What are the Geneva conventions? They set rules of fighting. Why was UN and League of Nations formed?

Killing an ak weilding enemy and raping a 12 year old girl are two different things and every one knows what's allowed and what's evil. If you do evil, then there should be a court martial. Even Whermacht court martialed it's soldiers who were involved in gang rape if any. That was an example of what's evil and what's not.

4- I am medically unfit to join armed forces of my country. (Hyper mobile elbow joints)So from then onwards, I have become anti war.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

I wish war fighting is really as simple as what you said.

The truth is, it cannot be a lot further from it.

Y replying to trolls?, Anyway I thought Tunnel rats were US soldiers, Dint know Aussies had them .

 

[Psychic]

Y replying to trolls?, Anyway I thought Tunnel rats were US soldiers, Dint know Aussies had them .

1-Whoose god damned thread is that? Mine.

2-Who started trolling first? Check previous posts.

3-Who made off topic posts first? See for yourself.

4-If you do not have any thing constructive to add then leave instead of calling names.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

1-Whoose god damned thread is that? Mine.

2-Who started trolling first? Check previous posts.

3-Who made off topic posts first? See for yourself.

4-If you do not have any thing constructive to add then leave instead of calling names.

And where did I call names? And the reply was not to u, y are u jumping wagons now?

 

[jhungary]

1- I am fasting. Starving since 16 and a half hours in 40+ degree Celsius.
2- I think Geneva conventions defined evil and rules of fighting. One may kill his enemy but may not desecrate his dead body or torture a POW like what happened in Abu Gharib.
3- You have to make tough decisions in a battle field and sometimes you may kill women and children but the point is did you kill them intentionally or not. John Kerry said US troops did murder, plunder and rape in Vietnam. I did the same. He is ashamed of what he did.
Now tell me, is there a difference between murder, rape and plunder and collateral damage or not? What are the Geneva conventions? They set rules of fighting. Why was UN and League of Nations formed?

Killing an ak weilding enemy and raping a 12 year old girl are two different things and every one knows what's allowed and what's evil. If you do evil, then there should be a court martial. Even Whermacht court martialed it's soldiers who were involved in gang rape if any. That was an example of what's evil and what's not.

4- I am medically unfit to join armed forces of my country. (Hyper mobile elbow joints)So from then onwards, I have become anti war.

2.) No, Geneva define the Rule of War, what allowed not necessarily not evil and what not allowed in Geneva convention may not be evil.

You are confused between rules of war, and act of evil.

3.) Military reflect community, Rape, Murder happened NOT Only in war, so there will always be Rape and Murder in War, I understand what you are saying but what you are asking is simply, not going to happen.

Soldier and Human, and Human commit crime, it will and did happen anywhere, not just with US soldier, so what do you expect? Just because they are American and they are soldier, Crime should not be committed?

The Problem is not about crime per se, you will always expect crime being committed, as with ANY society, the question is how Crime being prosecuted, and in the US Military, there are system to prosecute those crime and that system is quite well-rounded and effective. You may not agree with each case, again, as with Civilian court.

4.) Anti-War, Pro-War, they are just government talk, fighting a war itself is mighty different, there are no political affiliation in war, bullets kill you just the same.

Y replying to trolls?, Anyway I thought Tunnel rats were US soldiers, Dint know Aussies had them .

Well, Answering to Troll made up most of my entertainment here, without them, I will not be here.

And yes, Aussie actually had a dedicated team of Tunnel Rat, and they are very proud of it

 

[Psychic]

2.) No, Geneva define the Rule of War, what allowed not necessarily not evil and what not allowed in Geneva convention may not be evil.

You are confused between rules of war, and act of evil.

3.) Military reflect community, Rape, Murder happened NOT Only in war, so there will always be Rape and Murder in War, I understand what you are saying but what you are asking is simply, not going to happen.

Soldier and Human, and Human commit crime, it will and did happen anywhere, not just with US soldier, so what do you expect? Just because they are American and they are soldier, Crime should not be committed?

The Problem is not about crime per se, you will always expect crime being committed, as with ANY society, the question is how Crime being prosecuted, and in the US Military, there are system to prosecute those crime and that system is quite well-rounded and effective. You may not agree with each case, again, as with Civilian court.

4.) Anti-War, Pro-War, they are just government talk, fighting a war itself is mighty different, there are no political affiliation in war, bullets kill you just the same.



Well, Answering to Troll made up most of my entertainment here, without them, I will not be here.

And yes, Aussie actually had a dedicated team of Tunnel Rat, and they are very proud of it

War crimes is one thing, war of aggression is the other. I hope now you get what I am saying.

 

[jhungary]

War crimes is one thing, war of aggression is the other. I hope now you get what I am saying.

war of aggression is one thing, killing innocent children and raping women is also another.

And I hope you get what I said?

 

[Psychic]

war of aggression is one thing, killing innocent children and raping women is also another.

And I hope you get what I said?

Unless the killings are systematic genocide or ethnic cleansing.

 

[jhungary]

Unless the killings are systematic genocide or ethnic cleansing.

lol. What exactly is war then?

 

[Psychic]

lol. What exactly is war then?

So you call a genocide as war? That was what you have been doing in Iraq?
Clearly that is the reason for your sucide attempt.

 

[jhungary]

So you call a genocide as war? That was what you have been doing in Iraq?
Clearly that is the reason for your sucide attempt.

I ask you to define what is war then, I did not say or call Genocide as War.

There are 2 kind of perspectives about war, from the people who are looking at it, and from the people who actually fought in it. There are a third kind, and it's a quite popular account here on PDF, but I am not going to go into that here.

For a person who are merely in it, you will, can, and might have certain emotion ran thru you, you can feel hatred, if you are the one being invaded, you can feel rejoice, if you are the one being liberated, you can feel scare, if you had looked down the barrel of a gun, you can feel exciting, if you are everything else.

But for a person who actually fought in it, you do not have to feel anything. It is all coming down to the basic, what do you do to survive, me, I am a professional soldier, I don't feel anything, well, that's not true, I feel EVERYTHING, but I knew deep down, I am there to fight a war, I set an objective and achieve it, I tried not to let my emotion get over me, as if I do, I am not an active participant anymore, I am merely a spectator.

Problem is, you cannot, I repeat, you cannot, have the feeling from both perspectives at once, as one is clearly in contradiction to the other, and when it came down to it, you need to pick one side and stick by it. You want to be a soldier, or you want to be a spectator?

How do all these explain what we talked before? you might ask?

Well, look at it this way, what is the peripheral different between Genocide and War?

To you, a civilian, you can throw the book at it and say this is genocide and this is not. You can bring out guideline, example, or even rules, to justify what is genocide and what is not. But for a soldier in the same war, does it really matter? At the end of a day, there are only one thing, and one thing only you really care about in war, and that is yourselves, everything else, does not matter.

War is just a war to us, you don't have to like it, you just need to be here, and whether or not if you call it a war or a genocide, it does not bother me.

If you can't see it this way, you don't know what it's like to be a soldier.

@Neptune he knows what I am talking about

 

[Psychic]

I ask you to define what is war then, I did not say or call Genocide as War.

There are 2 kind of perspectives about war, from the people who are looking at it, and from the people who actually fought in it. There are a third kind, and it's a quite popular account here on PDF, but I am not going to go into that here.

For a person who are merely in it, you will, can, and might have certain emotion ran thru you, you can feel hatred, if you are the one being invaded, you can feel rejoice, if you are the one being liberated, you can feel scare, if you had looked down the barrel of a gun, you can feel exciting, if you are everything else.

But for a person who actually fought in it, you do not have to feel anything. It is all coming down to the basic, what do you do to survive, me, I am a professional soldier, I don't feel anything, well, that's not true, I feel EVERYTHING, but I knew deep down, I am there to fight a war, I set an objective and achieve it, I tried not to let my emotion get over me, as if I do, I am not an active participant anymore, I am merely a spectator.

Problem is, you cannot, I repeat, you cannot, have the feeling from both perspectives at once, as one is clearly in contradiction to the other, and when it came down to it, you need to pick one side and stick by it. You want to be a soldier, or you want to be a spectator?

How do all these explain what we talked before? you might ask?

Well, look at it this way, what is the peripheral different between Genocide and War?

To you, a civilian, you can throw the book at it and say this is genocide and this is not. You can bring out guideline, example, or even rules, to justify what is genocide and what is not. But for a soldier in the same war, does it really matter? At the end of a day, there are only one thing, and one thing only you really care about in war, and that is yourselves, everything else, does not matter.

War is just a war to us, you don't have to like it, you just need to be here, and whether or not if you call it a war or a genocide, it does not bother me.

If you can't see it this way, you don't know what it's like to be a soldier.

@Neptune he knows what I am talking about

You know how many Muslim Soviet soldiers switched sides during Afghan war?
Now think about why they did so.
What you are calling a professional soldier is a professional slave to me.

Opposition to the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a difference in trying to bring peace in a war torn African nation and destroying another country just because they follow a different ideology.

 

[jhungary]

You know how many Muslim Soviet soldiers switched sides during Afghan war?
Now think about why they did so.
What you are calling a professional soldier is a professional slave to me.

Opposition to the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a difference in trying to bring peace in a war torn African nation and destroying another country just because they follow a different ideology.

I just want to ask you one question, Did you work??

If so, aren't you also a "professional slave" to your boss?

One way or another, people are just slave for other people, you may think you are on top of the world, but did you live your live simply for YOUR OWN sake? You don't have tax to pay? bills to pay? mouth to feed? Since when do people work for their own sake now? Well, unless you have millions and millions of dollars.

So, if you are one of the zombie working as a professional slave for someone else, did you see me come to your work place and protest the hell out of it??

This is why I am a professional soldier and you are, well, I don't quite really know what you are.