Vietnam needs billions of USD and a hundred years for landmine clearance

[ahfatzia]

@ Kalu-Miah

Any union of ASEAN and SK/Japan will never happen while alliances is a possibility. They are simply too far away to make such union possible and besides designate a certain 'state' to take a permanent leadership role is never going to work, elections maybe.

The only union might have a chance to blossom is the ASEAN+Bangladesh because they belong in the same, more or less, landmass and has had many experiences of interactions with each other.

But as I see it the only realistic union, if it even happen, is Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar and perhaps Bangladesh. Being in the same landmass is very import for a country to be formed and flourished. The transportation networks, when built, bind the people and economies together as a coherent unit. People are easier to move across land than ocean and in a few centuries it will create, through intermarriages, a unique a new race that further tighten the new country together.

 

[gambit]

I don't understand these Vietnamese, I am Chinese, roots from Hainan but was born in Vietnam during the war and know from history Americans carpet bomb 1/2 the country, napalmed swaths of villages and jungle and used agent orange and purple like they were handing out candy. To this day there are babies born in the country with various cancers and deformities as an exact testament to that chemical warfare from whities yet all I see is the venom and hatred against China but dear old uncle Sam gets a pass for literally chemical genocide on the nation.

I ask the Vietnamese take a good hard truthful took at the brutalities committed to their people by white trash instead of always spewing venom on fellow yellow people. This is why Yellow Asia will always be divided. We spend a profuse amount of time attacking each other with such disgust and energy while White trash commits atrocities against the nation proper yet they are treated like Gods. Insane . . .

Ever wonder why was there a war in the first place?

40,000 killed and 60,000 maimed!!let those poor Vietnamese deal with this legacy for the next 100 years,this number is still climbing with each passing day.

Then is that the intent of this thread? To belittle the Viets and to cast the US in a negative light?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

I don't understand these Vietnamese, I am Chinese, roots from Hainan but was born in Vietnam during the war and know from history Americans carpet bomb 1/2 the country, napalmed swaths of villages and jungle and used agent orange and purple like they were handing out candy. To this day there are babies born in the country with various cancers and deformities as an exact testament to that chemical warfare from whities yet all I see is the venom and hatred against China but dear old uncle Sam gets a pass for literally chemical genocide on the nation.

I ask the Vietnamese take a good hard truthful took at the brutalities committed to their people by white trash instead of always spewing venom on fellow yellow people. This is why Yellow Asia will always be divided. We spend a profuse amount of time attacking each other with such disgust and energy while White trash commits atrocities against the nation proper yet they are treated like Gods. Insane . . .

Interesting to know you were born in Vietnam.

We don't distinguish the yellow or white, as long as they don't invade our country otherwise we will spank them as we did do several times in the past.

Ever wonder why was there a war in the first place?
?

I'm sure he does not know that, not because his fault but the CCP.

 

[kalu_miah]

@ Kalu-Miah

Any union of ASEAN and SK/Japan will never happen while alliances is a possibility. They are simply too far away to make such union possible and besides designate a certain 'state' to take a permanent leadership role is never going to work, elections maybe.

The only union might have a chance to blossom is the ASEAN+Bangladesh because they belong in the same, more or less, landmass and has had many experiences of interactions with each other.

But as I see it the only realistic union, if it even happen, is Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar and perhaps Bangladesh. Being in the same landmass is very import for a country to be formed and flourished. The transportation networks, when built, bind the people and economies together as a coherent unit. People are easier to move across land than ocean and in a few centuries it will create, through intermarriages, a unique a new race that further tighten the new country together.

An alliance like NATO between ASEAN/SK/Japan, lets call it ASEAN+2 SEATO, with some backing from the US and tacit acceptance from China and India would be a good start.

I do agree about the landmass part. ASEAN+Bangladesh has common landmass which is an advantage in the long term. About creating new race, it could happen. I have heard at least 5,000-10,000 Bangladeshi guest workers married in Korea and I think the situation is similar in Malaysia. So it is definitely possible in the long term, despite some current reservations from our next door neighbor in Myanmar.

But if you think about it, Philippines, a member of ASEAN, is only connected by sea and air, and SK/Japan is just a few hours away by air from Philippines. So it really depends on what the democratic will of a population is. I think ASEAN countries would love to have SK/Japan as part of the Union, but SK/Japan may not want to participate at this stage. If they see some benefit, they will become a part of this union later, if not they will remain a strategic and security alliance partner of an ASEAN+2 SEATO, which will serve ASEAN purpose just fine. The reason why I place so much importance on these two countries is that they have an advanced industrial base, which is complementary to cheaper labor available in most ASEAN countries.

About permanent leadership role, of course I did not literally mean a recreation of Japanese empire, but rather the leadership from SK/Japan will be mainly economic in nature, while the political structure will be democratic following the EU example or some variants of it, which is already existing in ASEAN.

If we look at ASEAN map, we can see that Malaysia have some land mass south of Thailand, but it has some island land mass also. Indonesia is mostly island landmass. But some of it will be connected in the future via proposed submerged floating tunnels:
Submerged floating tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is the Archimedes Bridge? - YouTube

Indonesia
Indonesia has also expressed interest in this technology. For the infrastructure, that would connect Bali to Thailand, there were two options, a conventional bridge or the undersea tunnel.
On 2004 the tunnel option was more widely discussed, specially when Kwik Kian Gie, then the Minister of National Development announced that a European consortium was interested in investing in the undersea tunnel between Java and Sumatra. The budget was told to be around 15 billion US dollars for the undersea tunnel in the Sunda Strait; in long term it would link up Bali, Java, Sumatra, Malaysia and Thailand in an uninterrupted chain. The project was planned to start construction in 2005 and be ready to use by 2018, and was a part of the Asian Highway.[19]
However, the bridge option was later favored.[20]
In 2007, Indonesian experts, led by Ir. Iskendar, Director for the Center of Assessment and Application of Technology for Transportation System and Industries, participated in a meeting with SIJLAB engineers, from the sino-Italian Archimedes Bridge project.[16][21] As an archipelagic country, consisting of more than 13 thousand islands, Indonesia could benefit of such tunnels. The conventional transportation service between islands is made mainly by ferries. Archimedes bridges (Terowongan Dasar Laut, in Indonesian) could thus be an alternative to connect adjacent islands, in addition to bridges.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Vietnam should not hold its breath as the US and its people are in no mood for Foreign Aid. If the world has not noticed, we are having financial issues of our own.

 

[ChinaToday]

I don't understand these Vietnamese, I am Chinese, roots from Hainan but was born in Vietnam during the war and know from history Americans carpet bomb 1/2 the country, napalmed swaths of villages and jungle and used agent orange and purple like they were handing out candy. To this day there are babies born in the country with various cancers and deformities as an exact testament to that chemical warfare from whities yet all I see is the venom and hatred against China but dear old uncle Sam gets a pass for literally chemical genocide on the nation.

I ask the Vietnamese take a good hard truthful took at the brutalities committed to their people by white trash instead of always spewing venom on fellow yellow people. This is why Yellow Asia will always be divided. We spend a profuse amount of time attacking each other with such disgust and energy while White trash commits atrocities against the nation proper yet they are treated like Gods. Insane . . .

man you are asking a lazy thief no dignity country to behave decently?????look mate they were so desperate for money they even sued bohpal the chemical company that produced agent orange for compensationsee how pathetic they are sueing bohpal is like sueing a shop keeper who sold a knife to a murderer hahaha

No, you have to beg more, with US or Russia or both of them. It's mentality of you who invented first in the world Beggar and Beggar Union (Cai Bang).
If Russia shake hands with US they can divide you in to pierces, They don't permit you go ahead with funny arrogant face. Think about WII, biggest communist shaked hands with biggest monopolist to destroy German and Japan, pushed them in to corner.
China showed his true face too early.

lol lap dog full of bs man , but i dont expect uneducated guy like you from a poor useless country undersand politics

 

[EastSea]

man you are asking a lazy thief no dignity country to behave decently?????look mate they were so desperate for money they even sued bohpal the chemical company that produced agent orange for compensationsee how pathetic they are sueing bohpal is like sueing a shop keeper who sold a knife to a murderer hahaha



lol lap dog full of bs man , but i dont expect uneducated guy like you from a poor useless country undersand politics

What kind of politics you have ? he he, is just copy what white races did in time of colonialism.

 

[gpit]

40,000 killed and 60,000 maimed!!let those poor Vietnamese deal with this legacy for the next 100 years,this number is still climbing with each passing day.

A horrible number!

Vietnamese have been victims of violent conflicts/wars for the past hundred+ years. Even today, viets are still being tortured with the after-trauma: defective children of Agent Orange, maimed bodies of left-over mines... More devastating is the kind of education. Based on the behaviors of internet Viets, their education system is completely rotten and stinky...

A puzzling phenomenon is that Viets on this forum is still so bellicose and belligerent, thirsty for blood of wars: use our blood do this, use our blood do that.

Is that because they can't stop gushes of killing hormones from their body due to hundreds of years in fight or any other dark psychology?

South Vietnam fell into place the boundary dispute between communism and capitalism in the years 1960-1970, the Americans fear so-called Domino's of communism from China.
We seem to be victims of our physical location.

We have suffered many losses in the war, although our enemies also suffer no less.
America spent huge amounts, subject to the record of casualties, the number of their aircraft was shot down so many, including very expensive aircrafts such as B-52.

France and China also bear the loss is not trivial.

Without the help of Soviet and China, you could shot down nothing. Absolutely zero!

You've got to learn to be grateful, Mr. ingrate.

 

[gambit]

A horrible number!

Vietnamese have been victims of violent conflicts/wars for the past hundred+ years. Even today, viets are still being tortured with the after-trauma: defective children of Agent Orange, maimed bodies of left-over mines... More devastating is the kind of education.

Perhaps if China had stayed out of Viet Nam, a lot less conflicts or even none would have happened?

Based on the behaviors of internet Viets, their education system is completely rotten and stinky...

A puzzling phenomenon is that Viets on this forum is still so bellicose and belligerent, thirsty for blood of wars: use our blood do this, use our blood do that.

Is that because they can't stop gushes of killing hormones from their body due to hundreds of years in fight or any other dark psychology?

That is funny considering the Viets here came to this forum AFTER the Chinese have already established their reputation as racists and warmongers. We can only wonder about the psychology of those who were rejected from military conscription and yet talk as if they are reincarnations of past Chinese myths.

 

[EastSea]

A horrible number!

Vietnamese have been victims of violent conflicts/wars for the past hundred+ years. Even today, viets are still being tortured with the after-trauma: defective children of Agent Orange, maimed bodies of left-over mines... More devastating is the kind of education. Based on the behaviors of internet Viets, their education system is completely rotten and stinky...

A puzzling phenomenon is that Viets on this forum is still so bellicose and belligerent, thirsty for blood of wars: use our blood do this, use our blood do that.

Is that because they can't stop gushes of killing hormones from their body due to hundreds of years in fight or any other dark psychology?



Without the help of Soviet and China, you could shot down nothing. Absolutely zero!

You've got to learn to be grateful, Mr. ingrate.

Help from Soviet is big and important for Viet. But when Vietcong taken power in Saigon 1975, Chine propaganda was silent. Traitorchinese are shameless when talking about it. In fact shinese stopped help from 1968 to get favour of US for join UN.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Without the help of Soviet and China, you could shot down nothing. Absolutely zero!

You've got to learn to be grateful, Mr. ingrate.

Right, all SAM missiles of the Soviet. But as I said above, if without communist China, the U.S didn't fear the so-called Domino's communism in Southeast Asia, and so there was no Vietnam War. Can you understand my points, mr chinaboy?
Remember that in 1954 China joined hands with France to divide Vietnam, then the Soviet and the U.S did pressure on Vietnam goverment to agree VN was divided into two parts, although we defeated France and captured more than 11 thousand French soldiers.

LOL look at your greedy no dignity nation , your foreign fx reserves only had $6billions and you want $10 billions for clearing mines hahahahhhahha, why not ask uncle sam to feed your nation for the rest of your life

Where you get the data on foreign exchange reserve of Vietnam is a $ 6 billion? It's totally incorrect.

 

[beijingwalker]

Military History Online - Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
by Bob Seals

“Best turn it into a bigger war…I’m afraid you really ought to send more troops to the South…Don’t be afraid of U.S. intervention, at most it’s no worse than having another Korean War. The Chinese army is prepared, and if America takes the risk of attacking North Vietnam, the Chinese army will march in at once. Our troops want a war now.”[1]
-- Mao speaking to the North Vietnamese in 1964

So why did the powerful modern nations of France and the United States lose two wars in Vietnam to a third rate military power like North Vietnam? This is the logical question that many historians have asked and attempted to answer since the Second Vietnam War ended in April 1975 with the fall of Saigon to North Vietnamese tanks.

This Chinese military support, to include equipment, advisors and planning assistance, provided from 1949-1975, would prove in both the First and Second Indochina Wars to be decisive. This substantial military support would give the People‘s Army of Vietnam an edge to resist Western forces and eventually subjugate the Republic of South Vietnam. This support, for various reasons, has never really been acknowledged by most popular histories of the conflict. This is perhaps due to the fact that such acknowledgement of the massive Chinese military support provided challenges many cherished myths of Vietnamese Communist military brilliance and the “heroic struggle” against overwhelming western imperialists. Two recent histories bear this out. Case in point A Military History of China, edited by David A. Graff makes no mention of Chinese support for Vietnam while Bruce A. Elleman’s Modern Chinese Warfare, 1795-1989, dismisses Chinese support in a mere two sentences.[3] However, unless this decisive Chinese support is properly understood by students of both Vietnam wars the answer to the question of why North Vietnam won will remain incomplete and misunderstood. This paper will attempt to outline the Chinese communist support in both wars and explain exactly why this support was so decisive.

China communist Party and North Vietnam power signed up agreements about PLA sent troops to Vietnam fight against American imperialist in 1965. At the same year, PLA send air defensive missile force, air defensive artillery, engineering force, railways troops, sweep mine team and shipping fleet and so on support North Vietnam. And carried on battle and supported tasks.
Chia total sent 320,000 troops to support North Vietnam until 1968 March, At the same time, China provided numerous military equipments and battle supplies. Include 170 planes, 140 ships and 500 tanks, 16000 trucks, cannon 37000, 2.16 millions guns ,bullets and shells add up to 12800 millions. In additional to these, and trained 6000 persons and technologists, through Vietnam war ,China gave an huge human power, finance, substance assistances for North Vietnam, count in supplies equality more the 20 billion dollars.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

A horrible number!

Vietnamese have been victims of violent conflicts/wars for the past hundred+ years. Even today, viets are still being tortured with the after-trauma: defective children of Agent Orange, maimed bodies of left-over mines... More devastating is the kind of education. Based on the behaviors of internet Viets, their education system is completely rotten and stinky...

A puzzling phenomenon is that Viets on this forum is still so bellicose and belligerent, thirsty for blood of wars: use our blood do this, use our blood do that.

Is that because they can't stop gushes of killing hormones from their body due to hundreds of years in fight or any other dark psychology?

We are the victims of the invasions, but the vast country China is no exception.
Just look at the following numbers:

Casualties and losses: (Sino-Japan war)
China:
Nationalist: 1,320,000 KIA, 1,797,000 WIA, 120,000 MIA, and 17,000,000–22,000,000 civilians dead [4]
Communist: 500,000 KIA and WIA.

A horrible number!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Military History Online - Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
by Bob Seals

Standpoint of a Vietnamese people, not communist nor nationalist, honestly I don't see any difference in the essence between two support:

1. U.S. supported South VN
2. China supported the North VN.

Assuming that the American was successful in helping South VN re-unification, or still South VN, and the US had not been forced to withdraw from VN in 1973. What would happen then?

VN did not lost Paracel Islands to China in 1974 until today.

VN did not endured the attacking by the Khmer Rouge along the border in 1975-1978, and then did not consume powers for the war against the Khmer Rouge throughout 1979-1988.

VN did not endured a bloody border war with China in 1979. And VN did not endured the devastation entire economic 6 provinces northern by "brother Chinese".

VN did not lost some of coral reefs in the Spratlys in 1988.

VN did operate under a capitalist economy from 1960s-1970s, not to take a long period of economic stagnation by the subsidy under the socialist model until the early 1990s.

So why do Vietnamese people should thank China while keeping the hatred for Americans?

 

[ChinaToday]

Standpoint of a Vietnamese people, not communist nor nationalist, honestly I don't see any difference in the essence between two support:

1. U.S. supported South VN
2. China supported the North VN.

Assuming that the American was successful in helping South VN re-unification, or still South VN, and the US had not been forced to withdraw from VN in 1973. What would happen then?

VN did not lost Paracel Islands to China in 1974 until today.

VN did not endured the attacking by the Khmer Rouge along the border in 1975-1978, and then did not consume powers for the war against the Khmer Rouge throughout 1979-1988.

VN did not endured a bloody border war with China in 1979. And VN did not endured the devastation entire economic 6 provinces northern by "brother Chinese".

VN did not lost some of coral reefs in the Spratlys in 1988.

VN did operate under a capitalist economy from 1960s-1970s, not to take a long period of economic stagnation by the subsidy under the socialist model until the early 1990s.

So why do Vietnamese people should thank China while keeping the hatred for Americans?

it is called good manners to thank people who helped you stupid

Right, all SAM missiles of the Soviet. But as I said above, if without communist China, the U.S didn't fear the so-called Domino's communism in Southeast Asia, and so there was no Vietnam War. Can you understand my points, mr chinaboy?
Remember that in 1954 China joined hands with France to divide Vietnam, then the Soviet and the U.S did pressure on Vietnam goverment to agree VN was divided into two parts, although we defeated France and captured more than 11 thousand French soldiers.



Where you get the data on foreign exchange reserve of Vietnam is a $ 6 billion? It's totally incorrect.

Ok then may be $10 billions lol does it really make that much diffece?