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Vietnam Gives China an Earful For 'Worst' Project

luckily, Parlament has rejected North - South high speed railway project with China loan and technology.
 
Very lucky of you. Work with Indians.

No.

The feasibility study has been preparing.., I think it will be shinkansen technology of Japan. It said by Japanese official, not Vietnamese.:undecided:

@Phát ngôn viên đoàn Nhật Bản ông Hidenobu Sobashima tối 20-7 cho biết, phía Tokyo vẫn quan tâm dự án đường sắt cao tốc Bắc-Nam.

Nhật Bản vẫn quan tâm dự án Đường sắt cao tốc Bắc - Nam - Báo Phụ Nữ Online


@Nihonjin 1051 What do you think ?
 
No.

The feasibility study has been preparing.., I think it will be shinkansen technology of Japan. It said by Japanese official, not Vietnamese.:undecided:

@Phát ngôn viên đoàn Nhật Bản ông Hidenobu Sobashima tối 20-7 cho biết, phía Tokyo vẫn quan tâm dự án đường sắt cao tốc Bắc-Nam.

Nhật Bản vẫn quan tâm dự án Đường sắt cao tốc Bắc - Nam - Báo Phụ Nữ Online

I guess effective supervision is very important and it is the duty of the related government organ. This is regardless who does the job. If mismanaged, rest assured, Japanese technology will fail you, as well.

Of course, you get what you pay for. No free lunch in this world.
 
I guess effective supervision is very important and it is the duty of the related government organ. This is regardless who does the job. If mismanaged, rest assured, Japanese technology will fail you, as well.

Of course, you get what you pay for. No free lunch in this world.

every things happen on project site, the main contractor is responsible, bro. The project owner don't care after signed the contract. owner pay for contractor to do everything until handover the project.

Shinkasen techology from Japan is best for Vietnam, though it is not free lunch.
 
That's the ideal proposition but in the world of contractors, sub-contractors, and sub-sub contractors that are involved in such huge multi-million/billion dollar projects, an effective government oversight is a must. Believe me, I know it because I worked as a land-surveyor in various (small) pipeline projects (as an non-qualified worker) and government on-sight checks were a common scene.

I think you dont have experience on construction project, bro.
 
luckily, Parlament has rejected North - South high speed railway project with China loan and technology.
no, the national assembly rejected the proposal for japan´s shinkansen. $50b, too expensive.

Vietnam abandons Shinkansen technology for slower railway - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

Very lucky of you. Work with Indians.
if china provides loan and technology and let assume the total cost is $20b or less, we could go for china HSR.
 
no, the national assembly rejected the proposal for japan´s shinkansen. $50b, too expensive.

Vietnam abandons Shinkansen technology for slower railway - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

It's true, and it's good. Shinkansen alike not suitable to over 1000 km route. It's the segment for airliners.

I believe that there's some short routes still adopt the Shinkansen technology, but the North-South main route ( 1700-1800km ) would be upgraded one of traditional railway with bigger width railway at speed under 200km/h
 
No. after my information the proposal submitted to parliament did'nt mentioned about the technology and Loan doner. but who is in background of this proposal ?
the japanese proposal is too expensive, takes too long to get completed. all a bad joke.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/946b37f2-7a16-11df-9871-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3OK4YfluJ

June 17, 2010 4:17 pm

High-speed rail project splits Vietnam
By Matt Steinglass in Hanoi

When the Vietnamese government officially unveiled its proposal for a $56bn high-speed train, linking Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, to the country’s National Assembly in May, it could not have anticipated the reaction.

Politicians in the normally placid assembly attacked high cost and vague passenger projections of the project, while economists and former government officials warned it would saddle the country with unaffordable foreign debt. The state-controlled but sometimes unruly newspapers splashed the controversy across their front pages.

By last week, when Ho Nghia Dung, the transport minister, came back to the assembly for a second try, the opposition had grown stiff to the point of sarcasm.

“Some deputies say this project will awaken a fairy who has long slept in the jungle,” said Nguyen Minh Thuyet. “I think the first thing the fairy will say when she opens her eyes is, ‘where’s the money?’”

The proposed bullet train, which would be completed by 2035, would travel the 1,600 km from Hanoi in the north to Ho Chi Minh City in the south in less than six hours. Vietnam’s current charming but woefully outdated trains take more than two days to make the trip.

Japan has pledged to grant Vietnam official development assistance to help finance the bullet trains, which would be built by one of two Japanese consortiums, either Sumitomo Corporation and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, or Itochu Corporation and Kawasaki Heavy Industries.

The railway will most likely go ahead despite the clamour. Last weekend, Nguyen Sinh Hung, deputy prime minister, said the government remained committed to the project. But the opposition revealed an increasing willingness to criticise government economic management amid increasing popular sensitivity to foreign debt.

“If we carry out this project using mainly foreign loans, it will lead to financial risks for the country,” said Le Dang Doanh, senior government economist, who said Vietnam’s foreign debt stood at 42 per cent of its $90bn economy.

But Japanese funding will not be sufficient to finance the entire project. And even the Japanese have expressed reservations about its scope.

Mitsuo Sakaba, Japan’s ambassador to Vietnam, said bullet trains were best suited to middle-distance spans such as the 550km between Tokyo and Osaka. He said the railway would likely be uncompetitive with air travel over the much longer Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City route.

“When we extend taxpayer money [for overseas development assistance], our money should be used efficiently,” Sakaba said.

Nevertheless, he said, Japan would support a decision by Vietnam to go ahead with the project on political grounds, while waiting for the results of detailed feasibility studies.

A preliminary study by Jica, the Japanese development agency, indicated the bullet train would take until 2030 – when some sections would be completed – to begin covering its operating costs, let alone repay capital investment.

When Seiji Maehara, the Japanese transport minister, visited Hanoi in May, he suggested scaling the project back to two shorter links: one from Ho Chi Minh City to the port of Nha Trang, and the other from Hanoi to the industrial town of Vinh.

Other potential financiers are cautious. At a meeting of Vietnam’s big donors last week, Martin Rama, a World Bank economist, responded to a query about the bullet train project with comments about the need to inspect “mega-projects” for economic efficiency, and “white elephants”.

“We do recognise that many countries tend to come up with such dream projects,” said Ayumi Konishi, the Asian Development Bank’s representative in Hanoi. “But there should be careful planning.”

The World Bank and the ADB say such projects can be hard to assess in economic terms because they are intended to serve as poles of development. Neither ruled out supporting the project in the future.

But foreign transport analysts generally place other infrastructure priorities higher on the list for Vietnam. Shippers and manufacturers complain of the lack of rail freight services to get the country’s export goods to ports, as well as a pressing demand for more port facilities to handle large container ships.

“I think developing a good highway between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City has greater ability to grow the country,” said Andrew Chan Yik Hong, an infrastructure analyst at PriceWaterhouseCoopers.

Vietnam’s main national coastal highway has only two lanes along much of its length. The country plans to spend $18bn over the next 10 years on highways. The high-speed rail project alone could cost $21bn in the same period.
 
This is what happen when you savagely destroying foreign property and killing our worker during your savageness. Now you are asking us to bring back skill workers in which they are terrifying of your countrymen that they don't want to return in large number. This is why we always send our worker to complete the project abroad because the local workers are unqualified to deal with large project. You want to blame? blame yourself.
 
We should have anticipated these kinds of nationalistic responses as shown above from the people of a country where the government is extremely unfriendly to China
We should not have entered into the project at all. Like I have expressed my strong opposition of entering into tender of any project in India. I am foreseeing similar cases will occur like the Vietcongs if we win contracts there
We have an impressive resume of completing numerous construction projects overseas in Africa, N and S America, South Asia, M East.
We are one of the most qualified to conduct similar projects in the world.

In the case above, there are several points to ponder:
1. I believe the majority of the workers on site are locals. This is the root cause of the problems because of the barrier in communications and different work ethics. We have good reasons for a strong demand of using Chinese workers especially if the site is in an unfriendly environment
2. Safety regulations are paramount and must be observed. I wonder if there were adequate supervision/effective communications between the site supervisors and workers in these regards
3. quality control over completed works seemed to be lacking there
4. was any of the accidents happened after typhoons?
5. is the project adequately covered by insurance?

Some sectors of the community are voicing out strongly against the use of Chinese workers in unfamiliar projects overseas. The vietcongs have presented a good case for us to use our people for the projects located overseas

a234c895e91e79aef6478bf4362c6e8a.gif
 
luckily, Parlament has rejected North - South high speed railway project with China loan and technology.

No money no talk....

We should have anticipated these kinds of nationalistic responses as shown above from the people of a country where the government is extremely unfriendly to China
We should not have entered into the project at all. Like I have expressed my strong opposition of entering into tender of any project in India. I am foreseeing similar cases will occur like the Vietcongs if we win contracts there
We have an impressive resume of completing numerous construction projects overseas in Africa, N and S America, South Asia, M East.
We are one of the most qualified to conduct similar projects in the world.

In the case above, there are several points to ponder:
1. I believe the majority of the workers on site are locals. This is the root cause of the problems because of the barrier in communications and different work ethics. We have good reasons for a strong demand of using Chinese workers especially if the site is in an unfriendly environment
2. Safety regulations are paramount and must be observed. I wonder if there were adequate supervision/effective communications between the site supervisors and workers in these regards
3. quality control over completed works seemed to be lacking there
4. was any of the accidents happened after typhoons?
5. is the project adequately covered by insurance?

Some sectors of the community are voicing out strongly against the use of Chinese workers in unfamiliar projects overseas. The vietcongs have presented a good case for us to use our people for the projects located overseas

a234c895e91e79aef6478bf4362c6e8a.gif

Nah, dirty Viet politician used subcontractor for the work and blame on Chinese. It's the usual SEA mentality--"we suck, let's just blame it on them!"
 
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