Vietnam Defence Forum

[Silent Knight]

India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles. The actual missiles are not mentioned, but BrahMos and Prithvi are high possibilities.

Also mentioned is some $500m in credit, as well as $100m to build new patrol ships for Vietnam.

 

[Carlosa]

India to train Vietnam’s Sukhoi fighter pilots
Dinakar Peri
NEW DELHI: DECEMBER 06, 2016 02:40 IST

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...m’s-Sukhoi-fighter-pilots/article16765719.ece

• Rajeev Bhatt
  
  In a further boost to its growing defence ties with Vietnam, India has agreed to train the southeast nation’s Sukhoi-30 fighter pilots.
  
  The agreement was reached during bilateral discussions between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Vietnamese counterpart, General Ngo Xuan Lich, here on Monday.
  
  Details under discussion
  
  India and Vietnam have been steadily stepping up their cooperation, especially in the defence sector, against the backdrop of the growing assertiveness of China in the region.
  
  Bilateral ties recently received a further fillip when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam in September, on his way to the G-20 Summit in Guangzhou.
  
  Both India and Vietnam operate Russian Su-30 jets and the two countries’ models differ slightly in their configuration.
  
  India already trains Vietnamese sailors in operating Kilo class submarines, which Hanoi had begun inducting since January 2014. India operates over 200 Su-30MKI fighters and nine Kilo-class diesel electric submarines.
  
  “Details are being worked out. Their pilots will be trained here. The two Air Forces will now sit and work out the numbers and scope. It should start fairly quickly,” a defence source said.
  
  The cost of training is being worked out. However, it will not be paid through the $500 million Line of Credit (LoC) extended by Delhi to Hanoi for defence procurements.
  
  “The terms and conditions of the LoC have been agreed upon. Vietnam has sought some concessions, to which we agreed. Some of it will be for modernisation of the existing equipment and the rest for new platforms,” sources said. An agreement would soon be signed by Exim Bank, after which the projects would be identified.
  
  MoU signed
  
  A programme for cooperation between the Air Forces was also signed. A senior official said that it covered a cross-section of activities, including training of pilots and exchange of experts. “Vietnam is interested in our experiences in repair and maintenance,” the official said.
  
  A memorandum of understanding was signed on peacekeeping as well as exchange of delegations. Mr. Parrikar offered “India’s partnership as a reliable player in terms of transfer of technology and building a local defence industry”. The two Ministers were learnt to have discussed the regional situation and taken note of their converging interests.
  
  Officials said Gen. Lich was positive on the progress made following Mr. Parrikar’s visit to Hanoi in June. Underscoring the importance of the visit, the Minister is being accompanied by a 30-member delegation, the largest so far to have accompanied him on a foreign visit. It includes the chiefs of the Air Force and the Navy and the Deputy Chief of General Staff.
  

 

[Viet]

Closer India-Vietnam coop to contribute to region’s security: Narendra Modi
Narendra Modi said Vietnam is a key pillar of India's Act East policy

Press Trust of India | Published: December 5, 2016 11:53 PM IST

Closer India-Vietnam coop to contribute to region's security: Narendra Modi


New Delhi, Dec 5: Closer cooperation between India and Vietnam in all sectors will contribute to the stability, security and prosperity of the entire region, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said today as he received Defence Minister of that country General Ngo Xuan Lich here.

During the meeting, Modi said Vietnam is a key pillar of India’s Act East policy, a PMO statement said. The Prime Minister noted that India and Vietnam have a longstanding and mutually beneficial relationship in the field of defence, and reiterated India’s resolve to strengthen defence ties further, it said.

He fondly recalled his visit to Vietnam in September this year, during which the bilateral relationship was upgraded to the level of a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership, the statement said. Lich briefed the Prime Minister on the progress achieved in bilateral defence cooperation.

 

[AViet]

India to train Vietnam’s Sukhoi fighter pilots
Dinakar Peri
NEW DELHI: DECEMBER 06, 2016 02:40 IST

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...m’s-Sukhoi-fighter-pilots/article16765719.ece

• Rajeev Bhatt
  
  In a further boost to its growing defence ties with Vietnam, India has agreed to train the southeast nation’s Sukhoi-30 fighter pilots.
  
  The agreement was reached during bilateral discussions between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Vietnamese counterpart, General Ngo Xuan Lich, here on Monday.
  
  Details under discussion
  
  India and Vietnam have been steadily stepping up their cooperation, especially in the defence sector, against the backdrop of the growing assertiveness of China in the region.
  
  Bilateral ties recently received a further fillip when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam in September, on his way to the G-20 Summit in Guangzhou.
  
  Both India and Vietnam operate Russian Su-30 jets and the two countries’ models differ slightly in their configuration.
  
  India already trains Vietnamese sailors in operating Kilo class submarines, which Hanoi had begun inducting since January 2014. India operates over 200 Su-30MKI fighters and nine Kilo-class diesel electric submarines.
  
  “Details are being worked out. Their pilots will be trained here. The two Air Forces will now sit and work out the numbers and scope. It should start fairly quickly,” a defence source said.
  
  The cost of training is being worked out. However, it will not be paid through the $500 million Line of Credit (LoC) extended by Delhi to Hanoi for defence procurements.
  
  “The terms and conditions of the LoC have been agreed upon. Vietnam has sought some concessions, to which we agreed. Some of it will be for modernisation of the existing equipment and the rest for new platforms,” sources said. An agreement would soon be signed by Exim Bank, after which the projects would be identified.
  
  MoU signed
  
  A programme for cooperation between the Air Forces was also signed. A senior official said that it covered a cross-section of activities, including training of pilots and exchange of experts. “Vietnam is interested in our experiences in repair and maintenance,” the official said.
  
  A memorandum of understanding was signed on peacekeeping as well as exchange of delegations. Mr. Parrikar offered “India’s partnership as a reliable player in terms of transfer of technology and building a local defence industry”. The two Ministers were learnt to have discussed the regional situation and taken note of their converging interests.
  
  Officials said Gen. Lich was positive on the progress made following Mr. Parrikar’s visit to Hanoi in June. Underscoring the importance of the visit, the Minister is being accompanied by a 30-member delegation, the largest so far to have accompanied him on a foreign visit. It includes the chiefs of the Air Force and the Navy and the Deputy Chief of General Staff.

Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.

Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.

 

[Swordfish]

Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.

Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.

Time will tell you my friend from Vietnam. I am sure your assessment of IAF has been done on your your in depth research and years of investment you have done to do the great assessment by which you are saying "poor condition".

Wait for the time to come you will get to know. Just for your information we have the SU30MKI from a decade now and our pilots have decent amount of flying hours under their belt to train some novice air force the nuances of flying.

But I leave the judgment with your fine wisdom.

 

[Carlosa]

Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.

Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.

First of all, the training in India is because VN is getting ready to buy SU-30SM which is a bit similar to what India has in many ways and that's the main reason for the training.

I can't say who is better since there is no external feedback about VN pilots, but Indian pilots are known to be very, very good and they have proven themselves in the Red Flag exercises in USA.

The subject of Indian training VN pilots came up many times recently in a variety of media, so for sure is not fake news.

I would assume that the Vietnamese air force knows better than you and me and they must have a good reason to train in India.

 

[Shinigami]

First of all, the training in India is because VN is getting ready to buy SU-30SM which is a bit similar to what India has in many ways and that's the main reason for the training.

I can't say who is better since there is no external feedback about VN pilots, but Indian pilots are known to be very, very good and they have proven themselves in the Red Flag exrecises in USA.

The subject of Indian training VN pilots came up many times recently in a variety of media, so for sure is not fake news.

I would assume that the Vietnamese air force knows better than you and me and they must have a good reason to train in India.

before red flag exercises there was something called cope india

i have some links for that
http://forums.ubi.com/archive/index.php/t-530538.html

The outcome of the exercise boils down to [the fact that] they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected, Snowden says. India had developed its own air tactics somewhat in a vacuum. They had done some training with the French that we knew about, but we did not expect them to be a very well-trained air force.


"The Indian Air Force is a world-class air force with great aircraft, great pilots, and great leadership," said Capt. Marcus Wilson, an Aggressor pilot at Nellis and the team chief for the exercise.
Code One Magazine: Building Friendships Volume 24 Number 1 2009

Indian pilots have created their own combat techniques and proved to be very smart, flexible and adaptive. This was also not an expected fact because Western tactical experts used to stay on their vision of dealing with Russian style pilots with rigid tactics and no independent moves what so ever. All this matters combined points out the Indian fighters to a real considerable threat leaving the Western analysts and USAF Command thinking it over how credible their own weapons are.
http://www.dutchaviationsupport.com/Articles/IL-78%20MIDAS&Crousaders.pdf

Indian AF Su-30K during the Cope India exercise. The Flanker's soundly defeated US Air Force F-15Cs during this exercise, exploiting not only superior BVR radar/missile capabilities, but also the TKS-2 datalink, used to network flights of Flankers
ausairpower.net/flanker.html

"We came rolling in, like, 'Beep-beep, superpower coming through,'" Colonel Fornof told me. "And we had our eyes opened. We learned a lot. By the third week, we were facing a threat that we weren't prepared to face, because we had underestimated them. They had figured out how to take Russian-built equipment and improve upon it."
Black Hawk Down author Mark Bowden
Infamous YouTube star Fornof re-appears in pro-F-22 article - The DEW Line

Indian planners combined the use of top-line fighters like this Su-30 with older types and impressive, innovative tactics.
Credit: USAF TSGT. KEITH BROWN
Re:2004 ¦~ 10 ¤ë°ê»Ú·s»D¡]ªÅ­x¡^

"When we saw that they were a more professional air force, we realized that within the constraints of the exercise we were going to have a very difficult time," Snowden (A USAF senior pilot at cope india)says. "In general, it looked like they ran a broad spectrum of tactics and they were adaptive. They would analyze what we were doing and then try something else. They weren't afraid to bring the strikers in high or low. They would move them around so that we could never anticipate from day to day what we were going to see."
(Lost the source. Sorry.)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/iaf-pilots-among-the-best.27931/#ixzz4S3UaqV5W

 

[Nike]

The capacity and capability of Indian fighter pilot don't be mixed and judged with their maintenance problems, that's a whole lot different thing. They are among the ones with rigorous training schedule and the one with essential combat experiences span for more than five decade with the last one happened in and around 1999-2000 during Kargil conflict. They and Pakistan is actually among the best trained in South Asia and Central Asia.

 

[Viet]

Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.

Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.

I think you don´t understand Vietnam´s intention in cooperation with India. It is mostly due to strategic calculation, not getting training here and there in India, nor buying a certain ship or any missile type. Although not at level of China, but you should keep in mind, India is a nuclear armed. it has one of largest armies of the world, operating very similar weaponry we see in the Vietnamese armed forces: attack submarines and bomber fleets. I am not military expert nor having knowledge of the thing, but I would assume having our air and submarine assets operating in India controlled airspace and sea lanes, conducting joint patrol with India, increasing interoperability between the two armies are the main motives.

 

[AViet]

OK. Whatever, I do not want to discuss with some people. Give me a Vietnamese source.

Does anyone remember about India selling Brahmos to Vietnam, which have been around for at least 10 years. Aqsuperman, can you give us the proof, as you seem to be one of few professional ones about Vietnam military here.

 

[Viet]

Welcome to the Camranh bay: Frigate BRP Ramon Alcaraz of the Filipino navy

 

[Silent Knight]

OK. Whatever, I do not want to discuss with some people. Give me a Vietnamese source.

How about an actual person that have deep connection with the VPAF, especially Su-30 regiments, i.e. me?

The reason to train in India is very simple.

Russia has taught Vietnam in operate these Su-30MK2V fighters, as in technical stuff and how to exploit the most from their flight envelope, or how to use certain weapon systems (mostly precision munitions). That's why we hired Russian test pilots like Sergei Bogdan or Yuri Vashchuk and not combat trainers in Lipetsk airbase.

Now the VPAF lacks combat experience with 4+ and 4++ gen fighters, as well as the necessary doctrine. Since IAF has the biggest Su-30 fleet, bigger than RuAF and PLAF combine, they have the most experience in operating them. Not to mention that India has participated in large exercises like Cope India or Red Flag.

Also, it might come in handy when we buy Su-30SM and/or Su-35S in the next 2-3 years.

You got me?

Andddddd, some ballsy low-level barrel roll for a change. Sea-skimming flights are so normal these days.

 

[AViet]

Thank you, Silent Knight. You are one of the few too.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles. The actual missiles are not mentioned, but BrahMos and Prithvi are high possibilities.

Also mentioned is some $500m in credit, as well as $100m to build new patrol ships for Vietnam.

Its high time Vietnam paid attention to tactical and strategic missiles.

If Vietnam joins MCTR, India can legally transfer far more restricted technologies.

 

[Silent Knight]

Its high time Vietnam paid attention to tactical and strategic missiles.

If Vietnam joins MCTR, India can legally transfer far more restricted technologies.

We focused on air defense missiles, the lastest being SPYDER and 3M24UV systems, following our defensive doctrine. But maybe it's finally time to make some offensive ones for deterrent role.

As far as I concern, the MTCR only restricts the export of missile with longer than 300 km range and bigger than 500 kg warhead. It doesn't mention anything about technology transfer. I could be wrong though.

Incidentally, India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles.