Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

Being a swinger only earn u enemies, not allies. Nobody trusts a swinger. Your enemy can rape u free of charge because they know u have nobody that come to your rescue.

That's not swinging at all. Just the opposite. You stay in your position until you are forced to choose a side.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Right, so u tell me what kind of military solution for u to be able to keep the Spratly without having the F-35 or the F-15 Silent Eagle? The answer is that u don't have a military solution. You don't have the technology edge or even the quantity to measure up to China.

You don't want a military alliance so u believe vn alone can beat china in a war over the spratly. I'm interested to hear your super opinion on how vn can defend the spratly from an all out air and naval assault from China. I'm sure all forum members will too.

why you asking this? Vietnam is already in alliance with US since 2005. Even if that was unofficial.

You think Japan send FDI to Vietnam without approval of US. Or Israel sell weapon system to Vietnam without US approval?

Lulz, a combine allied force could not defeat a single underpowered enemy and the one who lost are proud about it.

Just put it this way. No Russian or Chinese died on behalf of North Vietnam because we denied their request to join active combat. We single-handedly drived away the US master and the allies, then crushing the "almighty" RVN in just 2 years. Salty, isn't it?

No wonder why the crying like "Communism will collapse this year" is still being heard all those years.

This is same argument of Taliban that they were and still now proud of that, that drove out not one but two superpowers.

Dont fall in this blackhole, because in self interest only selfishness and cunningness serve interest of a nation, not pride or ego.

other than calling for the mods to come in n rescue u, what kind of military solution do you have for keeping the spratly?

I can tell you solutions, first Vietnam need 1500 KM OTHR-Backscatter for early warning including of detection of BM.

Second, they need to raise 2 regiments ( one regiment include 100 missiles )of BrahMos with 600 KM range.

Third, they need to upgrade SU to Super Sukhoi, and atleast 10 SU capable to carry BrahMos.

Fourth, induction of around 2-3 P-8, and induction of HALE UAV like Avenger or Global Hawk.

Thats all, I can assure you after this no one able to touch Spartly islands.

 

[Silent Knight]

This is same argument of Taliban that they were and still now proud of that, that drove out not one but two superpowers.

Dont fall in this blackhole, because in self interest only selfishness and cunningness serve interest of a nation, not pride or ego.

Meaning we should not be proud about it?

If it was not for the cleverness, determination and bravery of our founding fathers, how could Vietnam drove out not two, but 3 superpowers, one axis country and defeat one genocidal regime with support from some "great countries" in the 20th century? The nation and Armed Forces themselves are based on the pride and history.

And I only brought that out, because some butthurt people still feel salty about their defeat, and the "dedication" of their "allies".

 

[Viet]

fiction ≠ reality

Lol of course it is a fiction, or can anyone imagine submarines of Vietnam, Japan and India will go to war against China in the east and south china sea, as the novel suggests?

@Farhan Bohra


Vietnam

Japan

India

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Meaning we should not be proud about it?

If it was not for the cleverness, determination and bravery of our founding fathers, how could Vietnam drove out not two, but 3 superpowers, one axis country and defeat one genocidal regime with support from some "great countries" in the 20th century? The nation and Armed Forces themselves are based on the pride and history.

And I only brought that out, because some butthurt people still feel salty about their defeat, and the "dedication" of their "allies".

No I am not saying that.
But also one shoudnt bring proud, pride or ego in FP or serving the interest. Nope.

Also Armed Forces never should make political decisions or FP as they only see world from prism of offensive, counter offensive, defensive, retreat etc.

Lol of course it is a fiction, or can anyone imagine submarines of Vietnam, Japan and India will go to war against China in the east and south china sea, as the novel suggests?

@Farhan Bohra


Vietnam

Japan

India

Ask the more interesting question,

Why China since 90s pressurized on demand of whole SCS? Only for natural resources? I dont think so.

The problem is much more deep rooted and involve parties like UK, France and US.

One need to note, from Chinese perspective, in event of war ,SSNs and SSGN from US, UK and France bombard the shit of nuclear bastion stations of China, and that is serious threat to triad and deterrence.

 

[Silent Knight]

No I am not saying that.
But also one shoudnt bring proud, pride or ego in FP or serving the interest. Nope.

Also Armed Forces never should make political decisions or FP as they only see world from prism of offensive, counter offensive, defensive, retreat etc.

Sure, you have a point there. As I said, I only brought that out as some certain people keep ranting and crying about things that is not relevant to the modern Vietnamese Armed Forces.

I personally prefer to bring you the news and footage of the Armed Forces, not getting into long pointless argument.

 

[Viet]

Ask the more interesting question,

Why China since 90s pressurized on demand of whole SCS? Only for natural resources? I dont think so.

The problem is much more deep rooted and involve parties like UK, France and US.

One need to note, from Chinese perspective, in event of war ,SSNs and SSGN from US, UK and France bombard the shit of nuclear bastion stations of China, and that is serious threat to triad and deterrence.

Why China lays claim on 90 percent of the sea with 9 dash lines as close as our beach? Imagine, our fishermen can't do anything for their livings. Our navy can't go anywhere. We are imprisoned.

Because the Chinese want to kill Vietnam. That is not what I am thinking but one of top Vietnam army generals Nguyen chi Vinh says it, if China successfully gains the control. The Chinese also want to strangulate other nations in the region if they don't submit to China demands.

 

[gambit]

Yet no one one dare to give me a concrete answer for "IF VN join such an alliance, will US fully commit itself to us ?"

What you do not understand is that both the US and China have EQUAL interest in the SCS. Just in case you further do not understand, equal does not mean the same. China is absolutely certain the SCS belongs to China. The US is equally certain that the SCS remains free.

The odds of the US being committed to the defense of the SCS, with Viet Nam's assistance, from China is 50/50, whereas the odds of lone Viet Nam being defeated by China is 100%.

US dont has the gut to punish North Korea militarily when him blow up a South Korean ship, so WHY he has to do anything more than some marginally "protests" if China take the entire spratly islands ?

Because a single SKRean ship loss does not threaten the existence of South Korea. Even the South Korean government understood that. But if North Korea want all out fight, China will step in and PREVENT that from happening. North Korea would lose and China will face a refugee crisis. In the long run, China will be worse off because either China will have to take over North Korea or have the Korean peninsula under Western influence.

 

[BoQ77]

What you do not understand is that both the US and China have EQUAL interest in the SCS. Just in case you further do not understand, equal does not mean the same. China is absolutely certain the SCS belongs to China. The US is equally certain that the SCS remains free.

The odds of the US being committed to the defense of the SCS, with Viet Nam's assistance, from China is 50/50, whereas the odds of lone Viet Nam being defeated by China is 100%.


Because a single SKRean ship loss does not threaten the existence of South Korea. Even the South Korean government understood that. But if North Korea want all out fight, China will step in and PREVENT that from happening. North Korea would lose and China will face a refugee crisis. In the long run, China will be worse off because either China will have to take over North Korea or have the Korean peninsula under Western influence.

I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.

The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
We aren't surprised to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill. Or the rapid visit of Daniel Russel to Vietnam few days after the revealation of the incident.

The healing isn't fast as over night change.
It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.

It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.

 

[gambit]

I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.

The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
We aren't surprise to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill.

The healing isn't fast as over night change.
It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.

It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.

The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.

Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.

 

[BoQ77]

The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.

Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.

I'm more optimistic.
It's not too hard for Vietnam to keep our EEZ from Da Nang to Mui Ca Mau.
The remain problem is Spratly islands, which is apart from Vietnam EEZ.

PH is the big loser, also the weakest. That's why China pushing them

 

[Viet]

Unlikely that our extremely friendly northern neighbour resorts to nuclear, chemical and biological attacks. but just in case, the army has NBC unit consisting of BRDM-2 vehicles.

 

[Carlosa]

The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.

Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.

Minor correction: Don't forget the gulf of Thailand which access the south of the Mekong Delta.

I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.

The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
We aren't surprised to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill. Or the rapid visit of Daniel Russel to Vietnam few days after the revealation of the incident.

The healing isn't fast as over night change.
It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.

It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.

That's why I keep saying that there is a de facto alliance, its super light, no commitments or anything serious, but its there.

 

[BoQ77]

Minor correction: Don't forget the gulf of Thailand which access the south of the Mekong Delta.
That's why I keep saying that there is a de facto alliance, its super light, no commitments or anything serious, but its there.

If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established
@gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
It's not simple like that.

Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.

Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.

 

[Carlosa]

If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established
@gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
It's not simple like that.

Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.

Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.

I totally agree.