Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

I have the same feeling.

As buying tank is not just about tank, but about ammunition and logistics.

This tank indeed will be true hunter killer surpassing T-90 MS. But changing logistics, training and ammunition is pretty hard job.

Can always change the 120mm gun and use the 125mm gun of the T-90MS.

 

[Silent Knight]

Different guns, more logistic demands and training for that difference.

Also the Arjun has no export order as far as I concern, while the T-72 and T-90 are widely exported to several countries.

 

[Carlosa]

Different guns, more logistic demands and training for that difference.

Also the Arjun has no export order as far as I concern, while the T-72 and T-90 are widely exported to several countries.

Yes, at the time that I wrote the question to you, I was not aware that it was using a 120mm gun, it needs to be 125mm for Vietnam.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Yes, at the time that I wrote the question to you, I was not aware that it was using a 120mm gun, it needs to be 125mm for Vietnam.

Moreover, it is rifled not smoothbore.

 

[Viet]

Moreover, it is rifled not smoothbore.

bro we need panzer with cannon that can pierce through armor of Chinese tank. can 120mm do that? I don´t think it can. like the Leopard 2/A6 with 120mm cannon, it can´t. I think T-90 with 125 mm main gun will fit our needs. is there much difference between rifled and smoothbore in respect to speed and power?

 

[Viet]

Two B-52s fly over for Vietnam veterans Long Tan ceremony at Australian War Memorial


David Ellery
August 18 2016

About 1500 Vietnam veterans from across Australia saw B-52 bombers in the air for the first time since the end of the war.

The planes, both from the United States Air Force's 69th Expeditionary Bomb Squadron, flew an 18-hour, 11,000 km mission from Andersen Air Force Base on Guam to take part in the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan at the Australian War Memorial.

Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over Canberra to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan. Photo: Rohan Thomson


Two of the squadron's pilots flew to Canberra to act as liaison officers.

"It was a privilege to take part in the ceremony," said one, who cannot be named for security reasons, but goes by the call sign "Slam", told Fairfax Media.


The 69th, which is normally housed at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, rotated to Andersen in February and March this year. "Deployments are for six months so we are coming to the end of our tour," Slam said.

The two planes that flew over Canberra in company with a Hercules, a Caribou, two DC3s, an Iroquois helicopter, a Sioux helicopter a Cessna 0-2 and Cessna Bird Dog, were B-52 H variants.

These, the last of a line that first saw the light of the day in 1952 and went into service in 1955, are 12.4 metres tall and weigh more than 83 tonnes when empty.

They are 48.5 metres long and 56.4 metres from wing tip to wing tip.

The planes flew from Andersen Air Force Base on Guam to take part in the 50th commemoration. Photo: Andrew Meares

Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over Canberra. Photo: Rohan Thomson


A B-52 H can carry up to 32 tonnes of munitions and has a maximum speed of 1047 km/h. The planes, the largest combat aircraft operated by the USAF, have a 16,000 km range.

Ian Thompson, president of the Vietnam Veterans and Veterans Federation of the ACT and the organiser of the Long Tan commemoration fly past, said he was surprised and delighted on Wednesday when told that not one but two of the big bombers were coming.

A view over Canberra as the Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over. Photo: Rohan Thomson


"We had asked for one," he said. "It meant so much to the USAF and the US government to have an aerial presence over Canberra for this event that they sent two planes just to make sure.

"Everybody we worked with on this, from the bottom to the top of the US government, was determined to make this a success. I believe this is in recognition of Australia's role as America's principal ally [in the Vietnam war].

"The USAF would have treated this as a high-profile training exercise and you wouldn't have gotten change out of a couple of million dollars."

Mr Thompson, a helicopter pilot in Vietnam who went on to fly fighters after the war before becoming a Qantas pilot, said the Long Tan anniversary had been a red letter occasion for his members.

"Nearly 60,000 men and women served in Vietnam," he said. "The [community] attitude towards is in 1974 and 1975 was abysmal. It has taken a long time to get over that slight.

"We had 100 veterans from the battle here today and 1500 or more Vietnam veterans all up. This is two to three times what you would normally expect at one of these events."

 

[xiao qi]

Battle of Long Tan, has a documentary film about that

. It exaggerates Aus veterans to sky when they encountered battle-hardened Vietnamese soldiers. They are very proud of achievements

 

[MacanJawa]

cant wait to see vietnam t-90

bro we need panzer with cannon that can pierce through armor of Chinese tank. can 120mm do that? I don´t think it can. like the Leopard 2/A6 with 120mm cannon, it can´t. I think T-90 with 125 mm main gun will fit our needs. is there much difference between rifled and smoothbore in respect to speed and power?

125 russian and 120 mm west is comparable just use DU round / APFDS will slice chinese tank like butter
smoothbore cannon have more velocity than rifled

 

[Nilgiri]

I dont understand how tanks play any major role for Indonesia to begin with given its a chain of islands.

Isn't it more easy to target what will bring in/send out the tanks/ground assets from theatre to theatre?

 

[Nike]

The one that comes here with bullshit and rants is you. The more you talk, the more you show it.

Its time for you to get up to date on the latest news since as the Americans have already admitted from plenty of sources, the Russians got ahead of them on ECM, artillery, tanks, etc.

Wow, very impressive reasoning, your legacy Leopards are supposed to be better just because they use the same ammunition as the US marine corps. Brilliant again !!!!!

And I suppose your Leos will fare well againts top attack missiles?

sure we got pretty much confidence bcause our Leo is real and been there for the time being

unlike dreamful Vn cheerleader who counts the eggs before hatched

We got electro jamming unit

 

[Carlosa]

We got electro jamming unit

Wow, electro jamming unit !!! I'll pray to Allah for protection against your electro jamming unit and your legacy tanks.

 

[Nike]

The one that comes here with bullshit and rants is you. The more you talk, the more you show it.

Its time for you to get up to date on the latest news since as the Americans have already admitted from plenty of sources, the Russians got ahead of them on ECM, artillery, tanks, etc.

Wow, very impressive reasoning, your legacy Leopards are supposed to be better just because they use the same ammunition as the US marine corps. Brilliant again !!!!!

And I suppose your Leos will fare well againts top attack missiles?

I dont understand how tanks play any major role for Indonesia to begin with given its a chain of islands.

Isn't it more easy to target what will bring in/send out the tanks/ground assets from theatre to theatre?

Looks at our currents acquisition we are emulating British expeditionary forces, so we had small number army unit but in good quality coupled with robust amphibious forces and escort naval unit

Wow, electro jamming unit !!! I'll pray to Allah for protection against your electro jamming unit and your legacy tanks.

you want to playing religion bashing here

@waz @Hu Songshan

 

[Carlosa]

Looks at our currents acquisition we are emulating British expeditionary forces, so we had small number army unit but in good quality coupled with robust amphibious forces and escort naval unit



you want to playing religion bashing here

@waz @Hu Songshan

Oh really? Why I can't pray to Allah? Do you have an exclusive on that? Since when praying is bashing?

Hiding beyond religion now?

 

[Nike]

You have apple, I have orange.
Vietnam has electro jamming units too.
----
By the way, I want to talk deeper on Vietnam military development.
----
1. Vietnam army established in 1945 from peasants who used to fight with sticks, swords,..
and get their first firearms by catching from French legion soldiers.
They were taught to save even a single bullet, There are stories about heroes who proceeded 1 shot multiple kills.
Their ordnances or explosive get the gunpowders from mute bombs or artillery projectiles.
Dien Bien Phu victory honored by blood of brave soldiers.
The air defence units appear for the first time in Dien Bien Phu operation ( 1953-1954 )

2. During 1960s and 1970s, Vietnam army was modernized, air force established.
Surface to Air Missile units and Armor vehicles added.

And the tactic changed, from guerrilla to regular units, In Ia Drang battle 1965 the first time we saw a battalion-scale battle between US and North Vietnam. Vietnam adopts the approaching style of fighting to limit the damage from US aerial artillery and heavy artillery or bombing raids.

For offensive battles, North Vietnam deploys commando or sappers to penetrate the garrisons in secret and implant timing mines, ordnances ... to clear the most important and resistant layers. in advance. And retreat quick after made heavy damage to enemies.

In Northern, the air force and air defence units incl. AAA and radars, SAM harden by combats. And during Christmas bombing raids or 11 days operation in Dec 1972, US suffered the last but heaviest damage to their air squadrons

Air defence is among strongest in the region.
The Navy is weak

2. After Vietnam War, Vietnam has quite modern equipments both from Soviet, China and US left.
the modern F-5E first flight is in 1972, but early in 1975, Vietnam could gift Soviet Union 1 in CBU, 1 in spare parts already.
UH-1, A37, CH-47, M113, C130, M-107, M60, M48 ... fire arm, left bundles in Vietnam.
Plus, big military aids from Soviet Union to support Vietnam against China in 1979 and afterward.

That make Vietnam a quite modern military at least 10 years after that.
While Soviet get usage of Cam Ranh, Vietnam Navy is still weak.

3. Vietnam get the first Su-22 in 1979 and they could still in usage until clashes happened in 1988 between China and Vietnam. Vietnam proceeded maritime operation training for Su-22 few months before the clash broken out.
That's the only aircraft Vietnam could reach Spratly islands. They are older variant of Su-22 and quite obsolete, and in 1989 Vietnam get some more modern, used Su-22M4 from East Europe countries. They are still effective way to protect Vietnam Spratly since then until 10 years later.

4. If we look at the GDP of Vietnam before and after 1990 AND the changes in comparative power in Spratly then we could understand the basic principles of Vietnam strategy and meaning of any purchase.

In summary, Vietnam has very limit defence budget back to 1980s , early 1990s. And any purchase is only for confronting China at sea.

The first purchase of brand new, modern weapon made by Vietnam in 1995-1996 for Su-27, an altenative for Su-22 guarding Spratly islands, while China already buy Su-27 from Russia.
----
to be continued

u got the points, my self never trying to make ruckus here. As both Id and Vn had a common interest to preserve the status quo in the region. Ur army deserve a much better attention

 

[BoQ77]

u got the points, my self never trying to make ruckus here. As both Id and Vn had a common interest to preserve the status quo in the region. Ur army deserve a much better attention

Based on what I know, the Radar, inland Air Defence units, ECM, ... of Vietnam is among the best in Southeast Asia.
There're Radar Academy, Missiles Academy, ... and we all know Vietnam tested the BM with minimum range 900km back to 1990s.

Vietnam radar capability isn't much worse than China counterpart, you know.
Adding S300PMU1 or SPYDER systemS isn't the frog jump but update the more modern weapon to existed inventory.
including modernized S-125 2-TM, semi automatic AAA, domestic MANPADS...

I'm satisfied with the development of Air Force and Air Defence.

Now, back to Navy, Vietnam started the modernization of Navy with domestic built BPS-500 late, in year 2000 without much success.
Plus, the existed weak Navy ( unlike Air Defence ), always in the await status. Some Tarantul-class missile boats delivered to Vietnam in 2000 has AShM with 80km of range only.

Current model :
Molniya class first 2 missile boats with KH-35 missiles delivered to Vietnam in 2007-2008, means less than 10 years until now. The localization of them only start few years ago, and still ongoing.
Gepard class of 2000 ton corvettes started even later, with all built in Russia.

Actually, Navy is still weak as Lady @madokafc said, compared to even regional Navy like Indonesia, Singapore...
I'm not satisfied with our Navy too.

But the big surprise is the contract of 6 Kilo-class subs deal in 2009. That's really a frog jump in developing our fleet. The deal buy times for Vietnam to build forces ( Air, Coastal, Surface ) to protect Spratly.

As Sir @gambit said that deal put the uncertain things to formula.

Vietnam isn't used to buy expensive weapons. They only do that on certain purposes.
Vietnam keep making big surprises, not because of big weapon contracts.

EXTRA systems aren't expensive. While we may think Vietnam would buy a lot of surface ships, or several squadron of US made aircrafts ... Vietnam buy some cheap Short Range Artillery units ( which total cost even less than a corvette ) from Israel only. But they are still more deadly than any other surface ships.

The PRECISION they are, the LOCATION they put to ... ; scrapped several hundred billion dollars of the big claimant, in attempt to make an advantage in Spratly with Air or Sea force

-----
>>> I believe that, as their ancestors, nowaday Vietnamese could always find a way to defeat their thousand years long of enemy's invasions, while they are always the much smaller in power anytime.

That's why I appreciate even the post refered to our three time victories over Mongol empire long time ago. The mindset of the weak one want to defeat the strong one; of little David want to defend against the giant Goliath, is workable in Vietnam.

That's the most dangerous weapon, I could ever figure out.

Right thing, right place, with high precision level

BUT all of those doesn't work if you don't dare to raise your head up.