Vietnam acknowledged Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea in 1958

[happycanuck]

YOu need time to return all pages to read more..... then you will clear, if not, pls let us know.....

I thank you for your offer to help me. I have been reading all the information on the Islands in dispute and fail to understand why our Chinies friends keep bringing the letter from North Vietnam PM of 1958 than guy named akkitya claims North Vietnam did not have sovereignty over the Island. Why he would keep making the argument about that ownership of islands was granted to them by North Vietnam, which he says in one of the post that North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty. He contradicts himself. It is good he defeated his own case himself. This happens when people are lying over and over again. They will tell you ten different versions of the story because they do not remember the last statement they made. The moral of the story is tell the truth no matter how bad it is. You can forward this post of mine to him if you want. He will spend some sleepless nights realising the mistakes he made by exposing who he is in reality.

In my opinion this case is is closed and China is aggressor and illegal occupier of the Island.

 

[NiceGuy]

I thank you for your offer to help me. I have been reading all the information on the Islands in dispute and fail to understand why our Chinies friends keep bringing the letter from North Vietnam PM of 1958 than guy named akkitya claims North Vietnam did not have sovereignty over the Island. Why he would keep making the argument about that ownership of islands was granted to them by North Vietnam, which he says in one of the post that North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty. He contradicts himself. It is good he defeated his own case himself. This happens when people are lying over and over again. They will tell you ten different versions of the story because they do not remember the last statement they made. The moral of the story is tell the truth no matter how bad it is. You can forward this post of mine to him if you want. He will spend some sleepless nights realising the mistakes he made by exposing who he is in reality.

In my opinion this case is is closed and China is aggressor and illegal occupier of the Island.

In fact, we stated quite clearly in 1979 , during CHina-Vn war time already, but now, we want to have a good relationship with CHina, so we just don't wanna state again.

STATEMENT

BY THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

OF THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF VIET NAM

ON THE HOANG SA AND TRUONG SA

ARCHIPELAGOES

(AUGUST 7, 1979)

On July 30, 1979, China made public in Peking some documents in an attempt to justify its claim of sovereignty over the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes.

As regards this issue, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam declares:

1. The Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes are part of Vietnamese territory. The Vietnamese feudal states were the first in history to occupy, organize, control and exploit these archipelagoes in their capacities as Statees. This ownership is effective and in conformity with international law. We have sufficient historical and legal documents proving Viet Nam's indisputable sovereignty over these two archipelagoes.

2. The Chinese interpretation of the September 14, 1958 note by the Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam as recognition of China's ownership over the archipelagoes is a gross distortion since the spirit and letter of the note only mean the recognition of a 12 -mile limit for Chinese territorial waters.

3. In 1965, the United States intensified its war of aggression in South Viet Nam and launched a war of destruction by air and naval forces against North Viet Nam. It declared that the combat zone of the U.S. armed forces included Viet Nam and an adjacent zone of about 100 nautical miles from Viet Nam's coast line. At that time. in their anti-U.S. struggle for national salvation the Vietnamese people had to carry out their fight in all forms to defend. their territorial integrity. Moreover, Viet Nam and China then maintained friendly relations. The May 9, 1965 Statement by the Government of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam had its raison d'être only with this historical background.

4. Since 1972, following the Shanghai Joint Communiqué, the Chinese rulers have colluded with the U.S. aggressors and betrayed the Vietnamese people, causing more and more obstacles to the war of resistance of Viet Nam. Early in January 1974. just before the Vietnamese people won complete victory in Spring 1975, China occupied by armed forces the Hoang Sa archipelago then administered by the Saigon administration.

The Republic of South Viet Nam then clearly stated its position as follows:

- Sovereignty and territorial integrity are questions sacred to every nation.

- As regards territorial border questions, there often exist between neighboring countries disputes left by history, which may extremely complicated and should be thoroughly studied.

- The countries concerned should consider this question in the spirit of equality, mutual respect, friendship and good neighborliness and settle it by negotiations.

SRVN Statement79

Sorry if something on statement related to US, it was the war times , now, it's over and we will have VN-US naval drill in Da Nang province

for more picture
https://phamdinhtan.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/hình-ảnh-hoạt-dọng-chung-hải-quan-viẹt-mỹ/

 

[akittya]

You say above like this " US belongs to China". Sorry, pls see my suggestion above

i think you not full read this thread, we actually discussed are relevant to this letter.


Vietnamese excuse of this letter has a premise that South Vietnam has sovereignty over these two islands, in fact, this premise is wrong (you can not find any other countries have recognized this premise).
When two countries have dispute then third country party have right to admit One party‘s declaration, in order to support one party.

 

[akittya]

I thank you for your offer to help me. I have been reading all the information on the Islands in dispute and fail to understand why our Chinies friends keep bringing the letter from North Vietnam PM of 1958 than guy named akkitya claims North Vietnam did not have sovereignty over the Island. Why he would keep making the argument about that ownership of islands was granted to them by North Vietnam, which he says in one of the post that North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty. He contradicts himself. It is good he defeated his own case himself. This happens when people are lying over and over again. They will tell you ten different versions of the story because they do not remember the last statement they made. The moral of the story is tell the truth no matter how bad it is. You can forward this post of mine to him if you want. He will spend some sleepless nights realising the mistakes he made by exposing who he is in reality.

In my opinion this case is is closed and China is aggressor and illegal occupier of the Island.

North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty，so south Vietnam must have the sovereignty?
What is the logic？
the fact is no other coutry recognized Vietnam has sovereignty over these two island Whether any party in Vietnam

When two countries have dispute then third country party have right to admit One party‘s declaration, in order to support one party.


I have always said that you recognize our statement I never said that you have sovereignty, but also did not say these two islands is that you gave us, in fact, the Vietnamese do not have sovereignty over these two islands no matter any side , so you can no give us these island。
Has always been our stuff, do not need you give, you just admit the fact.
Not self-contradictory. All you own fantasies out.

 

[Vietnam.Duong]

i think you not full read this thread, we actually discussed are relevant to this letter.


Vietnamese excuse of this letter has a premise that South Vietnam has sovereignty over these two islands, in fact, this premise is wrong (you can not find any other countries have recognized this premise).
When two countries have dispute then third country party have right to admit One party‘s declaration, in order to support one party.

Like North Korea accept Seoul belongs to China ?

 

[gambit]

North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty，so south Vietnam must have the sovereignty?
What is the logic？
the fact is no other coutry recognized Vietnam has sovereignty over these two island Whether any party in Vietnam

The logic is that sovereignty can be established through presence and development. As long as there are no contestants and even if there are said contestants must have persistent, then sovereignty can be claimed by one side. Sovereignty can also be claimed when there is abandonment of a territory by someone else.

 

[akittya]

The logic is that sovereignty can be established through presence and development. As long as there are no contestants and even if there are said contestants must have persistent, then sovereignty can be claimed by one side. Sovereignty can also be claimed when there is abandonment of a territory by someone else.

You too right, Vietnamese Prime Minister certainly agree with your logic , according to your logic he chose to recognize the Chinese statements, Continued for about 20 years to recognize China's sovereignty over these two islands until find oil at South China Sea。I think the Vietnamese believe oil more than your logic.

 

[Cambodia Spirit]

The logic is that sovereignty can be established through presence and development. As long as there are no contestants and even if there are said contestants must have persistent, then sovereignty can be claimed by one side. Sovereignty can also be claimed when there is abandonment of a territory by someone else.

That's why the North take your South and now you are living in the U.S. waving American flag!!!

 

[meocoi]

A good research from Hoover Institution of Stanford University

Countering Beijing in the South China Sea | Hoover Institution

Here are some key points that I think they capture the thought and idea of most Chinese:

"Consistent with its Sinocentric ideology, Beijing believes its authority over its smaller neighbors should include determining their foreign policy."
"Beijing is also claiming that the uninhabited islands and reefs of the South China Sea are Chinese territory and, thus, also have EEZ."
"China also justifies its claims to the South China Sea with various vague writings dating back more than 2,000 years."
"The Chinese emperors viewed their vassal kingdoms the same as the European monarchs viewed their colonies."
"China disregards treaties and bases its current territorial claims on the pre-colonial tributary relationships."
"Hanoi’s experience with post-empire China is the latter’s enduring disregard of Vietnam’s independence."

 

[Cambodia Spirit]

A good research from Hoover Institution of Stanford University

Countering Beijing in the South China Sea | Hoover Institution

Here are some key points that I think they capture the thought and idea of most Chinese:

"Consistent with its Sinocentric ideology, Beijing believes its authority over its smaller neighbors should include determining their foreign policy."
"Beijing is also claiming that the uninhabited islands and reefs of the South China Sea are Chinese territory and, thus, also have EEZ."
"China also justifies its claims to the South China Sea with various vague writings dating back more than 2,000 years."
"The Chinese emperors viewed their vassal kingdoms the same as the European monarchs viewed their colonies."
"China disregards treaties and bases its current territorial claims on the pre-colonial tributary relationships."
"Hanoi’s experience with post-empire China is the latter’s enduring disregard of Vietnam’s independence."

Hah, Pakistani flags with location in Germany, and the nick in Vietnamese "meocoi" = "skinny cat" hah!!!

Viva Vietnam!!!

 

[meocoi]

Hah, Pakistani flags with location in Germany, and the nick in Vietnamese "meocoi" = "skinny cat" hah!!!

Viva Vietnam!!!

Nothing is new here, I have told that I am Vietnamese in this forum before, I am now in Germany and I was too lazy to change the flags when I registered. Please concentrate into the discussion and dont tell something about private stuffs, it does not make any sense here.

 

[meocoi]

Some interesting parts which can be found from the research:

"Neither can Beijing demonstrate that Chinese ever permanently inhabited the Spratly or Paracel Islands, because they are uninhabitable. Many are wholly or intermittently submerged. The ones that are mostly dry lack sources of fresh water, and these low features are seasonally exposed to the monsoons. Today, the only human populations of these islands and reefs are military garrisons maintained at immense expense to their respective governments and at great personal risk to their members. They can by no means be said to have “an economic life of their own” and consequently are not able to generate their own eez under Article 121 of unclos.

China also cites various vague, questionable, and off-point historical writings dating back more than 2,000 years in its attempt to document its claimed sovereignty over the South China Sea.4 Without doubt, Chinese explorers and fisherman sailed the South China Sea for two thousand years, and some recorded their exploits, but it is equally clear that the Chinese traditionally have viewed Hainan Island as the southernmost outpost of their civilization, certainly until the end of the 19th century.5

Ancient Chinese records do not disprove the claims of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, or Indonesia. There is substantial archeology showing that today’s Southeast Asians lived on those archipelagos long before written Chinese history. Several waves of settlers arrived in the Indonesian and Philippine archipelagos as far back as 250,000 years. These early peoples sailed or paddled the South China Sea to arrive where their descendents are living today. Although the Spratly and Paracel Islands were too small for permanent habitation, peoples of all the littoral countries fished and economically exploited them before China existed.

For countries that are littoral to the South China Sea, China’s claims are analogous to one of your neighbors claiming that the entire street in front of your home is his personal property. Furthermore, he claims that your sidewalk, driveway, and front yard clear up to the doorstep also belong to him. His armed guards park their cars in your driveway and he picks flowers out of your garden. If you or your neighbors protest he denies the validity of your title and refuses to settle in court. If someone insists on his property rights then the guards beat him."

The one in bold is the statement which I find most accurate to describe the current situation.

 

[Vietnam.Duong]

North Vietnam did not have the sovereignty，so south Vietnam must have the sovereignty?
What is the logic？
the fact is no other coutry recognized Vietnam has sovereignty over these two island Whether any party in Vietnam

When two countries have dispute then third country party have right to admit One party‘s declaration, in order to support one party.
I have always said that you recognize our statement I never said that you have sovereignty, but also did not say these two islands is that you gave us, in fact, the Vietnamese do not have sovereignty over these two islands no matter any side , so you can no give us these island。
Has always been our stuff, do not need you give, you just admit the fact.
Not self-contradictory. All you own fantasies out.

What you are saying about ? for example Sekaku islands belongs to Japan, and they need Vietnam confirmation and then Japan have sovereign on that ? means that without Vietnam confirmation then Japan will have not sovereign on that island. So crazy.......

 

[Vietnam.Duong]

You too right, Vietnamese Prime Minister certainly agree with your logic , according to your logic he chose to recognize the Chinese statements, Continued for about 20 years to recognize China's sovereignty over these two islands until find oil at South China Sea。I think the Vietnamese believe oil more than your logic.

We never talk about oil here, we are talking about Pham Van Dong letter......perhaps Chinese are thirsty of oil ?

 

[akittya]

What you are saying about ? for example Sekaku islands belongs to Japan, and they need Vietnam confirmation and then Japan have sovereign on that ? means that without Vietnam confirmation then Japan will have not sovereign on that island. So crazy.......

You have the right to admit Sekaku belongs to Japan, to support the japan's claim, but China will never recognize japan sovereignty over Sekaku .
But can you imagine if you continued 20 years support Japan's claim,and suddenly say that Sekaku should belongs to Vietnam ?
Perhaps now you are being organized fraud experts manufacturing evidence by changing the translations result .
When manufacturing is completed, you will announce Sekaku belongs to you.

Now you doing to china is such a disgusting thing。
continued 20 years you support china's claim that these two island belong to china , suddenly say that these two island should belongs to Vietnam .