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Vietnam acknowledged Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea in 1958

all Chinese are cleared about Pham Van Dong's letter now ?

Pretty much!

1) Pham confirmed to China that Spratly is China’s in black and white, representing NV, later represnting SRV the current Vietnam.

2) Pham’s successors either make Mr. Pham a liar or themselves are liars.

3) Further shows to the world what real time ingrates look like.
 
China is big country, and we're so small, China will threaten us with war if we don't accept some crazy idea from you .Those islands did not belong to North VN, so what the use if North VN agree with CHina some that did not belong to North VN ??

What happend if South VN with US's support succesfuly conquer North VN ??Do South VN have to responsible about Pm Dong's letter when they already denouce China ??

Pls note that New VN include South VN and North VN , South VN controlling those islands and denouced your violation in 1974, so New VN have the right to denouce you now.

SRV is not created by overthrowing NV. Rather SRV is a natural extension of NV’s business after annexed SV, including some of their control of the islands.

Thus, communist SRV is in essence the communist NV.

A mere change of your name wouldn't let you go your debt: you have not been declaring bankrupt!

It is your choice to be a liar or otherwise to declare bankrupt.
 
Black and white, without any distortion

Example
I borrowed $ 1,000 from you, and I said this is a gross distortion, Is not really can become you borrowed $ 1000 from me.
Haha

The situation must be like this:

I need to borrow you money, you want me to deposit my neighbour house, Ok I deposit her house and take money, but you can not take my neighbour house away, that all :smokin:

Thank for your money, bro :cheers:
 
SRV is not created by overthrowing NV. Rather SRV is a natural extension of NV’s business after annexed SV, including some of their control of the islands.

Thus, communist SRV is in essence the communist NV.

A mere change of your name wouldn't let you go your debt: you have not been declaring bankrupt!

It is your choice to be a liar or otherwise to declare bankrupt.

So, pls read again bro.
STATEMENT

BY THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

OF THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF VIET NAM

ON THE HOANG SA AND TRUONG SA

ARCHIPELAGOES

(AUGUST 7, 1979)

On July 30, 1979, China made public in Peking some documents in an attempt to justify its claim of sovereignty over the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes.

As regards this issue, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam declares:

1. The Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes are part of Vietnamese territory. The Vietnamese feudal states were the first in history to occupy, organize, control and exploit these archipelagoes in their capacities as Statees. This ownership is effective and in conformity with international law. We have sufficient historical and legal documents proving Viet Nam's indisputable sovereignty over these two archipelagoes.

2. The Chinese interpretation of the September 14, 1958 note by the Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam as recognition of China's ownership over the archipelagoes is a gross distortion since the spirit and letter of the note only mean the recognition of a 12 -mile limit for Chinese territorial waters.

3. In 1965, the United States intensified its war of aggression in South Viet Nam and launched a war of destruction by air and naval forces against North Viet Nam. It declared that the combat zone of the U.S. armed forces included Viet Nam and an adjacent zone of about 100 nautical miles from Viet Nam's coast line. At that time. in their anti-U.S. struggle for national salvation the Vietnamese people had to carry out their fight in all forms to defend. their territorial integrity. Moreover, Viet Nam and China then maintained friendly relations. The May 9, 1965 Statement by the Government of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam had its raison d'être only with this historical background.

4. Since 1972, following the Shanghai Joint Communiqué, the Chinese rulers have colluded with the U.S. aggressors and betrayed the Vietnamese people, causing more and more obstacles to the war of resistance of Viet Nam. Early in January 1974. just before the Vietnamese people won complete victory in Spring 1975, China occupied by armed forces the Hoang Sa archipelago then administered by the Saigon administration.

The Republic of South Viet Nam then clearly stated its position as follows:

- Sovereignty and territorial integrity are questions sacred to every nation.

- As regards territorial border questions, there often exist between neighboring countries disputes left by history, which may extremely complicated and should be thoroughly studied.

- The countries concerned should consider this question in the spirit of equality, mutual respect, friendship and good neighborliness and settle it by negotiations.

5. At the talks held on September 24, 1975 with the Vietnamese Party and Government Delegation on a visit to China, Chinese Vice-Premier Deng Xiaoping admitted that there were disputes between the two sides on the problem of the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes and that the two sides should later discuss with each other to settle the problem.

6. By illegally occupying the Hoang Sa archipelago by military force, China has encroached upon the territorial integrity of Viet Nam and trampled underfoot the principles of the United Nations Charter which calls for settlement of all disputes by peaceful negotiations. After launching a large-scale war of aggression against Viet Nam, the Chinese side again raised the question of the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes while creating an increasingly tense situation along the Vietnamese border and refusing to discuss urgent measures to ensure peace and stability in border areas of the two countries. It is clear that the Chinese rulers have not given up their attempt to attack Viet Nam once again. Their actions pose a serious threat to peace and stability in Southeast Asia and expose more clearly their expansionist ambitions, big-nation hegemonism. bellicose nature, their volte-face and their traitorous character



Ha Noi, August 7, 1979.
SRVN Statement79
The Chinese interpretation of the September 14, 1958 note by the Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam as recognition of China's ownership over the archipelagoes is a gross distortion since the spirit and letter of the note only mean the recognition of a 12 -mile limit for Chinese territorial waters.
You misunderstand about MP Dong's letter coz North VN didn't control it, only South Vn had the right about those islands, and they denouced China in 1974.

your Leader Deng Xiaoping admitted that there were disputes between the two sides on the problem of the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes also .
4. Since 1972, following the Shanghai Joint Communiqué, the Chinese rulers have colluded with the U.S. aggressors and betrayed the Vietnamese people, causing more and more obstacles to the war of resistance of Viet Nam. Early in January 1974. just before the Vietnamese people won complete victory in Spring 1975, China occupied by armed forces the Hoang Sa archipelago then administered by the Saigon administration.

The Republic of South Viet Nam then clearly stated its position as follows:

- Sovereignty and territorial integrity are questions sacred to every nation.

- As regards territorial border questions, there often exist between neighboring countries disputes left by history, which may extremely complicated and should be thoroughly studied.

- The countries concerned should consider this question in the spirit of equality, mutual respect, friendship and good neighborliness and settle it by negotiations.

5. At the talks held on September 24, 1975 with the Vietnamese Party and Government Delegation on a visit to China, Chinese Vice-Premier Deng Xiaoping admitted that there were disputes between the two sides on the problem of the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes and that the two sides should later discuss with each other to settle the problem.
 
So, pls read again bro.SRVN Statement79
You misunderstand about MP Dong's letter coz North VN didn't control it, only South Vn had the right about those islands, and they denouced China in 1974.

your Leader Deng Xiaoping admitted that there were disputes between the two sides on the problem of the Paracels and Spratly archipelagoes also .

Your post further proves my statements:

SRV is not created by overthrowing NV. Rather SRV is a natural extension of NV’s business after annexed SV, including some of their control of the islands.

Thus, communist SRV is in essence the communist NV.

A mere change of your name wouldn't let you go your debt: you have not been declaring bankrupt!

It is your choice to be a liar or otherwise to declare bankrupt.
 
Thks for understanding.
Diplomat letter by Pham Van Dong informed that North Vietnam (from 17th Altitude up to Northward, not including two Island) respect to 12 miles of Coastline of China only.
Why China lies about the nature of letter ? Be course China don't have evidents to claim islands, which belong to Vietnam.

You are welcome. I will always support the truth based on facts and not the BULIES of the world.

We have already seen how people of TIBET are suffering. 1 billion population does not mean one can step all over the smaller nation. As a matter of we should all join in boycotting Chinies made products once for all. That will teach them a lesson.
 
Pretty much!

1) Pham confirmed to China that Spratly is China’s in black and white, representing NV, later represnting SRV the current Vietnam.

2) Pham’s successors either make Mr. Pham a liar or themselves are liars.
3) Further shows to the world what real time ingrates look like.

Gpit, i think that the American will not say like this, because they seem full educated, and you should change to actual flag and area......
 
Pretty much!

1) Pham confirmed to China that Spratly is China’s in black and white, representing NV, later represnting SRV the current Vietnam.

2) Pham’s successors either make Mr. Pham a liar or themselves are liars.

3) Further shows to the world what real time ingrates look like.
Bunk...He said no such thing. He did not even implied it. More like: 'Looky here, our communist northern brothers yakity-yak about some 12-mile limit and demands everyone respect such yakity-yak. So I suggest we should just yada-yada back about respecting such yakity-yak until this civil war is over.'
 
Bunk...He said no such thing. He did not even implied it. More like: 'Looky here, our communist northern brothers yakity-yak about some 12-mile limit and demands everyone respect such yakity-yak. So I suggest we should just yada-yada back about respecting such yakity-yak until this civil war is over.'

So, let's go Home if you have a chance bro, we VN will not sell any lands, islands to any one, we VN will build a NATO in ASEAN,we will keep our strong influence in Laos-Cam, our new Democracy version fit for one party and US accept it also.

Proud to be Vietnamese , bro :smokin:
FM Khiem meets US, Russian counterparts


FM Khiem and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressed their pleasure with positive developments in Vietnam-US cooperation in various fields, including economics, trade, security, science and technology, education and humanitarian activities.
FM Khiem meets US, Russian counterparts -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)
 
So, let's go Home if you have a chance bro, we VN will not sell any lands, islands to any one, we VN will build a NATO in ASEAN,we will keep our strong influence in Laos-Cam, our new Democracy version fit for one party and US accept it also.

You misunderstand about MP Dong's letter coz North VN didn't control it, only South Vn had the right about those islands, and they denouced China in 1974.
china admit Hanoi belong to Vietnam , it mean china sell Hanoi to Vietnam ?
south Vietnam only is control these island ,no one admit Vietnam any party Sovereignty over these island . even north Vietnam also not admit south Vietnam Sovereignty over these island.
 
I think that you want to concentrate on a personal attack rather on the discussion. If I wanted to hide my Vietnamese identity, I surely should take another nick name since "meocoi" could be easily seen as a Vietnamese word as many people here have discovered. I am now live in Dortmund, Germany, if you have doubts about this, ask the admin to check my IP address. Hence I think that I do not have to repeatedly mention about my identity in every post.

The approach in discussion here should come from an objective perspective (which I am trying to achieve and hop that I am not too subjective), hence, I prefer to cite more international research about this problem. From different sources throughout the world, of course excluding those from China, e.g: the one from Standford University which I have posted before, it can be seen that most people agrees that the claim of China is much weaker than that of other countries like Philippine, Vietnam... which is based on vague and questionable writings while it was very clear all the published official maps of China, at least until 19th centuries, showed that Hainan was their most southern part. This is the reason why Philippine is so confidential, recently, in asking China to resolve this dispute in the international court. Of course, China would refuse this suggestion since they know that their chance to loose is very high (from my opinion, it should be nearly 100%) and insist on bilateral discussion. My only doubt is: Philippine vs Vietnam, who has stronger evidence and can win the court.

you can check my post which you quote ,when i discover you have change flag to Vietnam. i already Immediately delete the relevant word before you post.
I will never like some Vietnamese, they not trying to find the truth. they will never admit mistakes, but also trying to find dirty excuse to deny the fact .

Vietnam and China, different emphasis class on the South China Sea.
Vietnam's main purpose is oil. Vietnam oil GDP ratio is Vietnam GDP 30% 。Vietnam is use entire country's power to Grab South China Sea, and soon release a lot of Information, Obviously want to achieve the goal as soon as possible.

China is more attention to South China Sea shipping lanes safe.As long as no war, transport line can be guaranteed.and china believes that relevant countries not dare to go to war .So far less investment than Vietnamese , so Information published are much less than Vietnam . Because china no looking forward to quickly solve the problem.

You can use google by comparing the key words "Truong Sa", and "nansha", compare the number of results, you will clear.

These causes foreign researchers access to data are more conducive to Vietnam。Because of information asymmetry, so the experts will be biased in favor of Vietnam.

In recent years, China began to increase research on the South China Sea, one of China as more and more evidence was published, on the other hand, has found more and more Vietnam’s evidence were Contradictory. serious research would be full of loopholes .becuse Vietnam previous
eager to published evidence, piece together the evidence or make fake evidence ,so this is inevitable。

With further research, later the china's situation will only become increasingly favorable.
 
I believe that all the countries along the SCN should form a company and divide the profits of the oil extracted from the ocean.
 
So, let's go Home if you have a chance bro, we VN will not sell any lands, islands to any one, we VN will build a NATO in ASEAN,we will keep our strong influence in Laos-Cam, our new Democracy version fit for one party and US accept it also.
If Phạm Văn Đồng's 1958 letter to China constitute concession, then what are we to make of President Ngô Đình Diệm's 1961 incorporation of the islands into Quang Nam province? How did that North Viet Nam's 1958 letter overrode South Viet Nam's resistance to China's claim to the islands? Not only common sense but international law recognizes that only the claimant -- or 'the State' -- that has effective custodial controls of a territory have the right to do with the territory as it see fit. To exploit or to give away if it want to. Did North Viet Nam had such effective custodial controls of the islands to give it away to China? No.

In another way of looking at any moral value and legal force of this 1958 letter, when France withdrew from the region, she conceded whatever territory she controlled at that time to the best available authority figure she believed to be most capable of assuming authority, exercise proper custodial duties, and establish visible sovereign claims on the islands: South Viet Nam. This government then resisted, successfully or else is besides the point, plans and attempts by foreigners to establish their own authority upon the islands. Should we not consider that resistance to be as equally valid an attempt to deny Chinese possession of the islands as North Viet Nam's alleged concession of the same? And if that resistance is equally valid, then should they morally cancel each other out? And if we agree that they canceled each other out, then should we place any value, moral and/or legal, of the current Chinese presentation of that 1958 letter from Pham Van Dong? No, it has no moral value and no legal force. Then and today.

So while Viet Nam was suffering through a civil war, any external claim to the islands should be suspect and view as the foreigner was trying to exploit the situation for his own advantage, in effect, any Chinese claim to the islands should qualify as outright theft with the victim -- Viet Nam -- temporarily incapacitated. No different than a looter who steal whatever he can BECAUSE the neighborhood is storm damaged and temporarily emptied of people. No different than a man who come upon an unconscious woman and sexually take advantage of her BECAUSE she is unable to resist his immorality and criminal molestation.

Phạm Văn Đồng's 1958 letter to China is a wash. A non-issue. It is like an inflated balloon animal at children's parties, eminently attractive but ultimately devoid of any substance. And the Chinese members here are like gullible children at those parties and eagerly lapped it up. Still...The Viets should be guarded with this letter. The Chinese will turn it around and say among themselves that even though they know that 1958 Phạm Văn Đồng letter is ultimately devoid of any moral substance and legal force, they will strive to make that balloon animal as attractive as possible to distract as many as possible away from legitimate challenges. The more gullible people to the Chinese side, the easier it will be for China to effect the typical 'mob mentality' to violently steal from the Viets.

The Viets will regret the day they give up these islands to the Chinese. Least painful is when we know that a loss came to be because we abandon something. Was it because we no longer care or were we too incompetent to exploit it for our benefits? More painful is when a possession was taken despite best efforts to resist, but at least we can say we expended blood and treasure to resist. The worst pain and shame is when something was given for nothing in return. Unless we consider contempt from the other side as something worthwhile receiving.

If the islands are to be in Chinese hands, the exchange of possession must not be from concession but from outright violent theft. Expose China for the rapist and thief that it is of the 'inferior' Asians the Chinese always believe the rest to be. The Yamatos taught Asia, from the Korean peninsula all the way to India, a hard and bloody lesson when they had the chance. Do not let their arrogant equal -- the Chinese -- repeat the same now that China have the opportunity.
 
If the islands are to be in Chinese hands, the exchange of possession must not be from concession but from outright violent theft. Expose China for the rapist and thief that it is of the 'inferior' Asians the Chinese always believe the rest to be. The Yamatos taught Asia, from the Korean peninsula all the way to India, a hard and bloody lesson when they had the chance. Do not let their arrogant equal -- the Chinese -- repeat the same now that China have the opportunity.

My God you are a piece of work.
 

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