Vietnam a Growing Threat to Taiwan’s South China Sea Claims: Report

[mike2000]

I agree KMT did their part. but CCP does acknowledges their rival KMT contribution during the war, though they definitely put more emphasis on themselves (which is natural)

Not really, the CCP doesnt. even if they did, its only recently they start acknowledging any little KMT role in the war(mostly to gain favour towards Taiwan, for an eventual reunification.lol).. In this respect i will say the CCP has brainwashed many Chinese in this regard/field, which is really bad, since these are things a party shouldnt use for its own political gains. But then again what do you expect from a party who wants to claim its the only legitimate party to rule the country and did ALL the fighting against Japan, though in reality they did little to nothing, since they were just a guerilla fighting force back then.

Anyway even your MAO summed it up pretty well i quote:

"(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d'état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!"
-Mao Zedong greeting Japanese Prime Minister Takuei in Nanjing, 1972


Couldnt have said it better.

 

[NiceGuy]

Well im not sure Vietnam can defeat Taiwan in any Naval confrontation in SCS. Its true Vietnam has potent missiles it purchased from Russia, plus the 6 kilos subs Vietnam has pruchased from Russia(2 already delivered), all of which Taiwan lacks. But Taiwan has a more advanced surface fleet/industrial base than Vietnam which means it can sustain a prolong naval war much more than Vietnam. So i think in a short naval confrontation, Vietnam might win, but in any long term/prolong naval confrontation hmmmmmm........not so sure. Though that reamains to be seen as well.

If real war between TW-VN happen, we just simply sink all TW merchant ships-oil tanker passing through SCS(east sea), game over for them in few hours.

But those rocks in SCS(east sea) r not important to us, beside that we've got so many rocks there already, its no use and waste money to have one more useless rocks.

 

[Yizhi]

Not really, the CCP doesnt. even if they did, its only recently they start acknowledging any little KMT role in the war(mostly to gain favour towards Taiwan, for an eventual reunification.lol).. In this respect i will say the CCP has brainwashed many Chinese in this regard/field, which is really bad, since these are things a party shouldnt use for its own political gains. But then again what do you expect from a party who wants to claim its the only legitimate party to rule the country and did ALL the fighting against Japan, though in reality they did little to nothing, since they were just a guerilla fighting force back then.

Anyway even your MAO summed it up pretty well i quote:

"(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d'état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!"
-Mao Zedong greeting Japanese Prime Minister Takuei in Nanjing, 1972


Couldnt have said it better.

again, i still remember my high school history book, it basically describe KMT as the 'frontier' or 'central pillar' or sth...
ccp was described as smart terrorist (at least what i read) against Japanese...if you call that brainwashing...
whether japan say sorry or not doesn't really matter in today's circumstance, whole thing is politicized...
but something has to be done to get sinojapanese relationships right..so an sincere apology could be a start...

 

[Aepsilons]

while i dint dispute your other claims/comments. I disagree about the bold part. Japan's army wasnt a 'third class land Army'.lol Japan sent one of its best trained soldiers/army in its war/Invasion of China. Moreover Imperial Japan back then had one of the largest/best equipped/adavanced/trained army in the world. They are still the only country(after us obviously) to have launch an attack on U.S soil itself, they also invaded almost all of Asia in a matter of months. They even invaded/defeated some of our soldiers in our colonial terriroties in Asia like Singapore, Malaysia etc. They also initially defeated even the U.S in philippines and successful captured ruled the philippines for over a year before the U.S was able to regroup itself well and launch a renewed attack/inavasion of philippines from Japan. So calling Japan a third class army is rather laughable to be honest.

I admire imperial Japan's(just like Nazi Germany) past military prowess by the way(not their actions though). @Nihonjin1051

Very well written @mike2000 . For reasons, I will not go into detail of the military actions of the Imperial Army, but I will say this-- tho I may not agree with some of their operations, I do admire the prowess and lighting speed the Imperial Army, Imperial Navy -- and Imperial Air Service -- had enacted to conquer one of the largest Empires in Asia-Pacific. Again, I do not agree with the Mukden incident, nor do I agree with the injustices done on the civilians in Nanjing and other civilian population centers in Asia by some Imperial soldiers. I do not condone what they did.

As a student of history and admirer of military history, military strategy, I am just naturally awed at Operation Ten Goh.

I believe the Taiwanese begin to wet their pants. Maybe it is best for them to surrender.


Vietnam a Growing Threat to Taiwan’s South China Sea Claims: Report | The Diplomat
Taiwan weighs Vietnam’s threat to its military outpost in Itu Aba

By Prashanth Parameswaran
December 31, 2014

Vietnam’s military expansion on nearby islands could threaten Taiwan’s lone outpost in the South China Sea, according to a new report submitted to Taiwan’s Control Yuan.

The report, published by the Ministry of National Defense, noted that Vietnam’s deployment of mobile missiles and artillery guns on island bases could pose a threat to Taiwan’s military outpost Itu Aba (which Taiwan calls Taiping Island), the largest feature in the Spratly Islands which is also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and China.

Of particular concern are moves by Vietnam to expand its troop presence in Sand Cay Island, including by deploying new shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles (known as Dunqian Sand Island in Chinese Son Ca Island to the Vietnamese) – which lies just 11 km east of Itu Aba. If Vietnam plans on deploying these portable missiles close to Itu Aba, the report says it could attack Taiwan’s C-130 military transport planes and supply ships on their routine visits to Taiping Island.

“Vietnam may plan to deploy these portable missiles to reef islets closer to Taiping Island or might carry them on patrol boats to within striking range. In such a scenario, our military transport aircraft heading to Taiping Island would be directly threatened,” The Taipei Times quoted the report as saying.

Itu Aba, the only physical manifestation of Taiwan’s claims in the South China Sea, is an important feature not just because of its size, but because of its supporting infrastructure – including a large runway and fresh water supply – which makes habitation possible. As a result, experts say controlling Itu Aba could eventually help a country advance a legal claim not just on the island itself, but its immediate surroundings or potentially the whole Spratly archipelago and the resources within it.

The report, part of an evaluation of the regional security environment in East Asia, implored Taiwan to boost its defenses in the South China Sea in the face of military expansion by Vietnam as well as China and the Philippines.

In response to the report, some lawmakers have recommended that the country strengthen its own capabilities in the wake of the report’s findings. Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) legislators Johnny Chiang and Lin fu-fang said a new-generation Tuo-Jiang-class corvette, equipped with five surface-to-surface Hsiung Feng 2E missiles, could help Taiwan increase its deterrence capabilities.

“We must flex our firepower muscle there to deter such threats. Therefore, I request the military to station one or two Tuo Jiang corvettes at the Taiping base on a long-term basis,” Chiang said.

But Minister of National Defense Yen Ming reminded the legislators that since Vietnam has yet to deploy the shoulder-fired missiles on Sand Cay Island, their limited range did not yet pose an imminent threat to Itu Aba. He also said preparations were already underway to help Taiwan adjust to different military contingencies and defend its claims.

Taiwan has been looking to boost its own capabilities on Itu Aba, which is administered by its coast guard, in recent months. Taiwanese officials have announced plans to improve its runway to accommodate transport and marine patrol aircraft and to construct a port that would allow naval frigates and coastguard cutters to be stationed there permanently.

The plans have predictably drawn protests from Vietnam and the Philippines, who have questioned both the legality of Taiwan’s expansion as well as its impact on peace and stability in the South China Sea.

To be honest, I do not think it would be to the interest of Vietnam to engage in a contest against Taiwan. Status quo should be maintained.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

while i dint dispute your other claims/comments. I disagree about the bold part. Japan's army wasnt a 'third class land Army'.lol Japan sent one of its best trained soldiers/army in its war/Invasion of China. Moreover Imperial Japan back then had one of the largest/best equipped/adavanced/trained army in the world. They are still the only country(after us obviously) to have launch an attack on U.S soil itself, they also invaded almost all of Asia in a matter of months. They even invaded/defeated some of our soldiers in our colonial terriroties in Asia like Singapore, Malaysia etc. They also initially defeated even the U.S in philippines and successful captured ruled the philippines for over a year before the U.S was able to regroup itself well and launch a renewed attack/inavasion of philippines from Japan. So calling Japan a third class army is rather laughable to be honest.

The KMT by all means wasnt that bad at all, they defended/fought the Japanese in the battle of Shanghai for over 6 months, though they were ill equipped compared to Mighty Japan who had a formidable Naval fleet bombarding shanghai from the sea with land/air assault, all which the KMT lack(or even when they had 1, it was in small numbers). Also Japan suffered its highest casualty during the war, not from the U.S,Russia,Britain , but in China, where over 50% of their death was in China fighting mainly against the official KMT government. And Japan never suceeded in invading the whole China in its over 9 year war with the KMT government., they could only invade/rule the coastal regions(meanwhile they had basically overan almost the whole of Asia in just under a year.lol). So calling the KMT coward/useless during the 2nd world war, while praising your CCP(obviously.lol), is funny. I know the CCP never acknowledges their rival KMT contribution during the war(which i think its normal, since they want to take all the glory for it, even though they played little or no role against japan back then.lol) against Japan, but that doesnt means you should believe all what they say(which is a lie by the way).

So we should learn to put things into perspective. I admire imperial Japan's(just like Nazi Germany) past military prowess by the way(not their actions though). @Nihonjin1051



Well im not sure Vietnam can defeat Taiwan in any Naval confrontation in SCS. Its true Vietnam has potent missiles it purchased from Russia, plus the 6 kilos subs Vietnam has pruchased from Russia(2 already delivered), all of which Taiwan lacks. But Taiwan has a more advanced surface fleet/industrial base than Vietnam which means it can sustain a prolong naval war much more than Vietnam. So i think in a short naval confrontation, Vietnam might win, but in any long term/prolong naval confrontation hmmmmmm........not so sure. Though that reamains to be seen as well.

lol, Imperial Japan got a decent air force and navy during the WWII, but their land army was a laughable joke at the best.

Just look at their outcome against USSR in the land warfare.

again, i still remember my high school history book, it basically describe KMT as the 'frontier' or 'central pillar' or sth...
ccp was described as smart terrorist (at least what i read) against Japanese...if you call that brainwashing...
whether japan say sorry or not doesn't really matter in today's circumstance, whole thing is politicized...
but something has to be done to get sinojapanese relationships right..so an sincere apology could be a start...

KMT didn't do sh1t when the Imperial Japan illegally invaded our Northeast China.

It was CPC who declared the war against the Imperial Japan since 1931, while KMT did it in 1941.

Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hu Jintao was the most pro-KMT leader in CPC, but Xi Jinping doesn't give a sh1t about KMT, so don't expect the current China will be nice towards Taiwan like a decade ago.

 

[Aepsilons]

Just look at their outcome against USSR in the land warfare.

The Kwangtung Army, which was stationed in Manchukuo was, at the beginning of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, was the best fit, best armed, best trained, Army Command in the entire Imperial Japanese Army. However, with the war going poor in the South Pacific, and Southeast Asia, many of the divisions and well-trained soldiers from the Kwangtung Army were sent to combat the Americans, Australians, British, etc. At the beginning of WWII, The force of the Kwangtung Army was around 1.3 million, by close to the end of the war , this size had reduced to less than half a million. And the ones who were left in Manchuria were conscripts from Korea or Taiwan, or newly conscripts from Japan who did not have enough training. Those that remained in Manchuria were reservists.

Second point, the Russians had told Japanese government of their plans to miantain the neutrality pact. It was not expected that the Russians would turn, IN FACT, Japan was asking Russian side to interevene on Japan's behalf for a conclusion of a war. Japan had already made it known to Russia and the West that she was interested in concluding the war. Russia, had other plans, of course.

Such is war.

 

[Echo_419]

Not really, the CCP doesnt. even if they did, its only recently they start acknowledging any little KMT role in the war(mostly to gain favour towards Taiwan, for an eventual reunification.lol).. In this respect i will say the CCP has brainwashed many Chinese in this regard/field, which is really bad, since these are things a party shouldnt use for its own political gains. But then again what do you expect from a party who wants to claim its the only legitimate party to rule the country and did ALL the fighting against Japan, though in reality they did little to nothing, since they were just a guerilla fighting force back then.

Anyway even your MAO summed it up pretty well i quote:

"(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d'état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!"
-Mao Zedong greeting Japanese Prime Minister Takuei in Nanjing, 1972


Couldnt have said it better.

Damn good find sir,i didn't knew Mao said these words

The Kwangtung Army, which was stationed in Manchukuo was, at the beginning of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, was the best fit, best armed, best trained, Army Command in the entire Imperial Japanese Army. However, with the war going poor in the South Pacific, and Southeast Asia, many of the divisions and well-trained soldiers from the Kwangtung Army were sent to combat the Americans, Australians, British, etc. At the beginning of WWII, The force of the Kwangtung Army was around 1.3 million, by close to the end of the war , this size had reduced to less than half a million. And the ones who were left in Manchuria were conscripts from Korea or Taiwan, or newly conscripts from Japan who did not have enough training. Those that remained in Manchuria were reservists.

Second point, the Russians had told Japanese government of their plans to miantain the neutrality pact. It was not expected that the Russians would turn, IN FACT, Japan was asking Russian side to interevene on Japan's behalf for a conclusion of a war. Japan had already made it known to Russia and the West that she was interested in concluding the war. Russia, had other plans, of course.

Such is war.

Please tell me this is not you in the Avatar & if this is you are the reason the Koreans & Chinese are taking over Japan in many fields

 

[Aepsilons]

KMT didn't do sh1t when the Imperial Japan illegally invaded our Northeast China.

It was CPC who declared the war against the Imperial Japan since 1931, while KMT did it in 1941.

To be honest with you, the war was preventable. The catalyst for the war was the Mukden Incident, and some junior officers of the Kwangtung Army assassinating the Manchurian Warlord Zhang Zuolin. In fact the Imperial High Command had ordered the Kwangtung Army to control its junior officers and not to engage in a war with the Chinese. These radical junior officers led an entire division in the Mukden Incident, and by the time anything could be done, there was already widespread fighting throughout the frontier in Manchuria.

The problem was that the Imperial Government -- in trying to save face, indirectly rewarded the foolish adventurism of these junior officers such as General Honjo and General Minami. The entire Empire suffered from this foolhardy action, and their ilk , after the success in Mukden, took control of the Government via a Military Coup in the Government.

Japan and Japanese people suffered the insufferable because of their mistakes. The entire war in China was totally preventable. And this is why NO MILITARY PERSONNEL should ever control Government in Japan.

"(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d'état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!"
-Mao Zedong greeting Japanese Prime Minister Takuei in Nanjing, 1972

Mao was trying to be cordial, that is just political speech. It cannot be argued that Japanese adventurism in Northeast China was the death bell for the Empire. The adventurism in Manchuria had, effectively, caused a coup d'etat in Japanese Government because it allowed radical military men to assume control such as Tojo and his ilk. Japanese parliamentarians who disagreed , even the Emperor himself, had no say in any policy. Either stay quiet, or be silenced. And let me say that many Japanese politicians who expressed their opposition were assassinated , or placed on house arrest. Do you think there was freedom of the press at that time in Japan? Media was censured.

Again, this is the problem when we , as a people, allow ultranationalists and ultramilitants to assume control. Never, ever, again.

 

[Yizhi]

KMT didn't do sh1t when the Imperial Japan illegally invaded our Northeast China.

at that time i don't think KMT actually control northeast...nor had the ability to...it was basically an indian style central gov..
but you have to admit KMT was useful after 1937 (official jp invasion)...though they were terrible military strategically speaking(burned changsha wtf!!!)...
if mao could control KMT military(all those murican & germen weapons..) at that time, we wouldnt have lost so many lives (soldiers and civilians )while fighting japanese.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Kwangtung Army, which was stationed in Manchukuo was, at the beginning of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, was the best fit, best armed, best trained, Army Command in the entire Imperial Japanese Army. However, with the war going poor in the South Pacific, and Southeast Asia, many of the divisions and well-trained soldiers from the Kwangtung Army were sent to combat the Americans, Australians, British, etc. At the beginning of WWII, The force of the Kwangtung Army was around 1.3 million, by close to the end of the war , this size had reduced to less than half a million. And the ones who were left in Manchuria were conscripts from Korea or Taiwan, or newly conscripts from Japan who did not have enough training. Those that remained in Manchuria were reservists.

Second point, the Russians had told Japanese government of their plans to miantain the neutrality pact. It was not expected that the Russians would turn, IN FACT, Japan was asking Russian side to interevene on Japan's behalf for a conclusion of a war. Japan had already made it known to Russia and the West that she was interested in concluding the war. Russia, had other plans, of course.

Such is war.

Imperial Japan's land army barely got any machine gun for their troop, so they cannot compare with other land powers such as USSR and Nazi Germany.

Yeah, KMT was weak and corrupt to the core, and I couldn't imagine if they were facing a land Spartan power such as the Nazi Germany.

at that time i don't think KMT actually control northeast...nor had the ability to...it was basically an indian style central gov..
but you have to admit KMT was useful after 1937 (official jp invasion)...though they were terrible military strategically speaking(burned changsha wtf!!!)...
if mao could control KMT military(all those murican & germen weapons..) at that time, we wouldnt have lost so many lives (soldiers and civilians )while fighting japanese.

That's why KMT was an illegal regime from the beginning, since they had never fully controlled China like CPC has done.

Thanks to CPC, China is still large today, and we should purge on those KMT traitors when the time is ready.

 

[kankan326]

while i dint dispute your other claims/comments. I disagree about the bold part. Japan's army wasnt a 'third class land Army'.lol Japan sent one of its best trained soldiers/army in its war/Invasion of China. Moreover Imperial Japan back then had one of the largest/best equipped/adavanced/trained army in the world. They are still the only country(after us obviously) to have launch an attack on U.S soil itself, they also invaded almost all of Asia in a matter of months. They even invaded/defeated some of our soldiers in our colonial terriroties in Asia like Singapore, Malaysia etc. They also initially defeated even the U.S in philippines and successful captured ruled the philippines for over a year before the U.S was able to regroup itself well and launch a renewed attack/inavasion of philippines from Japan. So calling Japan a third class army is rather laughable to be honest.

The KMT by all means wasnt that bad at all, they defended/fought the Japanese in the battle of Shanghai for over 6 months, though they were ill equipped compared to Mighty Japan who had a formidable Naval fleet bombarding shanghai from the sea with land/air assault, all which the KMT lack(or even when they had 1, it was in small numbers). Also Japan suffered its highest casualty during the war, not from the U.S,Russia,Britain , but in China, where over 50% of their death was in China fighting mainly against the official KMT government. And Japan never suceeded in invading the whole China in its over 9 year war with the KMT government., they could only invade/rule the coastal regions(meanwhile they had basically overan almost the whole of Asia in just under a year.lol). So calling the KMT coward/useless during the 2nd world war, while praising your CCP(obviously.lol), is funny. I know the CCP never acknowledges their rival KMT contribution during the war(which i think its normal, since they want to take all the glory for it, even though they played little or no role against japan back then.lol) against Japan, but that doesnt means you should believe all what they say(which is a lie by the way).

So we should learn to put things into perspective. I admire imperial Japan's(just like Nazi Germany) past military prowess by the way(not their actions though). @Nihonjin1051

I agree with you on the first part. The westerners looked down on China when they saw the "bad" performance in the Sino-Japan war. But when the Japanese conquered Southeast Asia in several months. They were just speechless and wondered how China alone could resist Japan for nearly 5 years.

I disagree on the second part. You made the same mistake for underestimating CCP's contribution. CCP's armies fought in Japanese occupied land with poor weapons and few supplies. They not only survived in that harsh environment(You must know how brutal the Japanese army was), also became stronger and stronger. Their achievement is a miracle in the human war history. As far as I know, no army in the history created same miracle as CCP did.

 

[Aepsilons]

at that time i don't think KMT actually control northeast...nor had the ability to...it was basically an indian style central gov..
but you have to admit KMT was useful after 1937 (official jp invasion)...though they were terrible military strategically speaking(burned changsha wtf!!!)...
if mao could control KMT military(all those murican & germen weapons..) at that time, we wouldnt have lost so many lives (soldiers and civilians )while fighting japanese.

Such grim times, indeed, of the past. Thank God we are now in this present age, and at peace. It is sometimes surreal to me to imagine that our two peoples -- truly fraternal civilizations -- were fighting each other. And the greatest shame of Japanese is knowing that we allowed our Government to conduct our destructive adventurism in the past.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

To be honest with you, the war was preventable. The catalyst for the war was the Mukden Incident, and some junior officers of the Kwangtung Army assassinating the Manchurian Warlord Zhang Zuolin. In fact the Imperial High Command had ordered the Kwangtung Army to control its junior officers and not to engage in a war with the Chinese. These radical junior officers led an entire division in the Mukden Incident, and by the time anything could be done, there was already widespread fighting throughout the frontier in Manchuria.

The problem was that the Imperial Government -- in trying to save face, indirectly rewarded the foolish adventurism of these junior officers such as General Honjo and General Minami. The entire Empire suffered from this foolhardy action, and their ilk , after the success in Mukden, took control of the Government via a Military Coup in the Government.

Japan and Japanese people suffered the insufferable because of their mistakes. The entire war in China was totally preventable. And this is why NO MILITARY PERSONNEL should ever control Government in Japan.

Also engaging into a war against a nation with an industrial power which was 8 times bigger than the Imperial Japan, it had already marked their downfall.

 

[Yizhi]

Japan and Japanese people suffered the insufferable because of their mistakes. The entire war in China was totally preventable. And this is why NO MILITARY PERSONNEL should ever control Government in Japan.

i sometimes think if jp actually succeeded in conquering and occupying china ...200 years later there would be no japanese left...just look at Manchurian...no one speak manchurian these days...so china is a huge trap..

 

[Aepsilons]

Imperial Japan's land army barely got any machine gun for their troop, so they cannot compare with other land powers such as USSR and Nazi Germany.

Yeah, KMT was weak and corrupt to the core, and I couldn't imagine if they were facing a land Spartan power such as the Nazi Germany.

No doubt the Germans and the Russians had the upper hand in regards to firepower of their mechanized infantry. The Wermacht's Tiger Tanks were even feared by American Shermans. There were , indeed, differences in mandates of warefare between the German, Russian and Imperial Armies. For one thing, the Imperial Army was outdated in the mentality --- I mean --- for one thing -- I do not agree with their policy of -- 死ぬまで戦う-- To the Death. Thousands of our soldiers were wasted in these foolish banzai charges, and that old feudal ideology.

I could say much more.