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Video - Girl of 17 flogged by Taliban savages in Swat

Easy, there. There are so called "peaceful, moderate" types here who may not appreciate the thinking you have expressed -- for them Islamism is still the goose that may someday lay a golden egg -- utopians and millenarians imagine they understand relgions of FAITH, and I say "Imagine" because reality of religions of FAITH, is hard nosed born of love and it's travail, and imagination does not suffice for action -- ask any lover!


:pakistan:
 
All those indignant, WHY?

You want Islamism, well, you got it, so what's the indignation about?

This is not, not, Islam? Say's who? The real Muslims say that this is Islam and for second and third class Muslims such as Pakistanis, will have to learn this Islam, or die learning Islam.


UNless ofcourse, there are those Pakistanis who remember they are Muslims and not Islamists and will confront the Islamists and in doing so vanguish them and save not just themselves but all Musloms and therefore the world

so according to u wat is islamism?? and who are the real muslims?? and where in Ahadis and Quran do u find any text which supports this act?? u dont have to die to learn islam. the only thing u need to do is to open Quran and understand it in the light of Ahadis. lets not blame islam for our own evils.
 
Dear Mr. Pirzada:

Such excellent questions - but Sir, why is that you have not posed these questions to the true Muslims who now rule in Swat? Why have the like sof you not posed such questions to the Maulvi and Mullah who are silent but have plenty to say about everything else?

Indeed, lets grant that you are a thinking individual, and ask why is it that you deny reality = after all are not people being killed unless they accept and ACT in accordance to what the true Muslims want??
 
Dear Mr. Pirzada:

Such excellent questions - but Sir, why is that you have not posed these questions to the true Muslims who now rule in Swat? Why have the like sof you not posed such questions to the Maulvi and Mullah who are silent but have plenty to say about everything else?

Indeed, lets grant that you are a thinking individual, and ask why is it that you deny reality = after all are not people being killed unless they accept and ACT in accordance to what the true Muslims want??

well these true muslims of swat and true liberals of president house are both exploitin islam to achieve their own targets. they are only confusing people. lik prophet (peace be upon him) said that a time will come when everyone will be giving rulings(fatwas) and this will only confuse people bec such ppl will have no knowledge of Islam. this will be the time when very few religious scholors will be there. today is no different.
 
Enjoy your self-fulfilling prophesy, may it bring you much amusement and joy. And may you have many many more.:cheers:
 
Enjoy your self-fulfilling prophesy, may it bring you much amusement and joy. And may you have many many more.:cheers:

and wats so amusing about wat i said. anyways gudluck with ur lif:wave:
 
What the FK, government is doing on this issue, where is CJ of Pakistan ... where is every one sleep.. days will pass and every one will forget this issue and will wait for some new incident to happen and start the discussions............... this is destiny of Pakistan and Pakistani.....((((((((((((((( WAKE UP PLEASE ))))))))))))..
 
‘My fanatic versus your fanatic’

By Jawed Naqvi


THE flogging of a young girl in Swat by the so-called good Taliban has outraged civil society in Pakistan and elsewhere. However, only last month, a 75-year-old Arab widow was reportedly handed a similar punishment by a Saudi court.

Khamisa Sawadi, a Syrian who was married to a Saudi, was sentenced to 40 lashes for ‘mingling’ with two young men who were not her immediate relatives.

The two men, including one who was Mrs Sawadi’s late husband’s nephew, were evidently bringing her bread. They were also found guilty and sentenced to prison terms and lashes.

Why do we look the other way instead of confronting our double standards? Why does the image of barbarism in the case of the Taliban receive greater urgency and instil more palpable outrage than the scandalous happenings in Saudi Arabia, for example? Talibanisation is a feared ideology and that is how it should be. But variants of Talibanisation elsewhere have failed to invoke matching collective outrage, often not even fetching an intellectual frown. Why?

Both incidents depict an ugly relic of feudalism that stalks Asia and beyond, never mind that we are in the 21st century. From the pronounced and institutionalised gender bias of Korean and Japanese societies to the brazen subjugation of women in the Islamic world across West Asia it has been an arbitrary and unequal relationship.



An Indian government minister recently described Hindu vigilantes who beat up women in a restaurant as Indian Taliban. A few editorials were written but that was that. The issue has not figured in any of the election manifestos that Indian parties have brought out. Of course, the barbaric underpinnings of a society are not always predicated on the degree of democracy or authoritarianism its practises or accepts. Adolf Hitler and Narendra Modi make classic examples of elected leaders who rode a crest of popularity among capitalists and working classes alike despite, or, as some would argue, because of, their pronounced social atavism.


I once interviewed Ayatollah Sadegh Khalkhali, the ‘laughing executioner’ of the Iranian revolution. He had dispatched scores of women to the firing squad simply because they wore jeans, make-up and so on. In his view, therefore, they qualified to be seen as prostitutes. And prostitutes in his religion corrupted people and were unworthy of being allowed to live peacefully.

Khalkhali’s trademark high-pitched laughter was as menacing as his beady eyes were intimidating. He had a penchant for bumping off fellow humans at will. ‘If the people I executed were to return again, I would shoot them again without a doubt,’ he told me. Fortunately, he was eased out over charges of financial bungling before more helpless people were strung up from the neck by the crane, his favourite method of snuffing out life.


As irony would have it Khalkhali was an ardent supporter of the so-called reforms in Iran, with which former President Mohammad Khatami is often associated. Khalkhali was a close confidante of Khatami, who, in turn, was the cynosure of the West.

So what would life be under the Taliban should Mr Richard Holbrooke or someone of his ilk decide to give them legitimacy? Would it be more hellish than living in some of the countries that are indulgently described by their western patrons as ‘moderate Muslims’, but which practise the same zealotry that the fanatics in Afghanistan and Pakistan are berated for? So much depends on who wields the political stick at a given moment.

The diplomatic fallout associated with the televised documentary of the execution of a Saudi princess in 1977 comes to mind. When the British government was unable to stop the telecast of The Death of a Princess, about a young woman executed for adultery, the Saudis threatened to tear up the order forms. The Indian government caved in when the Saudi monarch refused to participate in an important protocol event – visit to Mahatma Gandhi’s shrine – because it was against his religion to pay respects to a fellow human.

By that yardstick Gen Pervez Musharraf should come across as a bleeding-heart liberal because, ignoring his ideological differences with Gandhi’s worldview, he went to the memorial to offer floral tributes to him.

What goes for religious fanaticism elsewhere can easily mutate into caste bigotry in a country like India. Although caste-based zealotry goes largely unnoticed because of its prevalence in under-televised rural areas it works with the brutality associated elsewhere with honour killings and violence against women generally. For instance, we celebrate the romance of Lord Krishna with the milkmaids of Mathura and Vrindaban. Krishna must have lived in a liberal era, for my experience and that of former Los Angeles Times correspondent in Delhi, Mark Fineman, was different.

We drove to Barsana, the village of Krishna’s beautiful consort Radha, on a muggy afternoon. It was sometime in 1993-94. A kangaroo court in the village had just ordered the lynching of a Jat girl and two Jatav boys, one of them her lover and the other who had helped them elope. Jats are a dominant agrarian community straddling much of the region surrounding Delhi. Jatavs are low-caste Dalits who handle dead animals. Many of them became prosperous when the price of leather went up in the international markets.

By the time we reached Barsana the bodies of the three were being brought down from the banyan tree by which they were hanged. The bodies were then dumped into a raging pyre. No one called the police. And when they did show up the senior Jat village elders, who would otherwise celebrate Krishna’s unbridled love of Radha, had fled.

The Taliban are also accused of enforcing a strict dress code for women. They must wear a prescribed veil and can step out only with a male member of the family, one who meets the strict conditions of gaining access to her.

Now sample a few descriptive gems from the memoirs of India’s first President Dr Rajendra Prasad, which he wrote in Hindi. The former head of state was not allowed to see the face of his wife for the first several years he spent with her in his village in Bihar. A maid would accompany him to his wife’s room in the middle of the night, after everyone had gone to sleep.

The hurricane lamp would then be blown out. Before dawn, Dr Prasad had to slip back into his bed with the rest of the family. Can you imagine American tanks rolling through Indian villages one day, barking out orders on the loud-hailer that Indian men and women must henceforth stop observing purdah, which in the case of young women is fondly called ghunghat. Grading good and bad Taliban is to endorse the aphorism: my fanatic is better than yours. Yet the malaise is more widespread than we care to acknowledge.


The writer is Dawn’s correspondent in Delhi.

jawednaqvi@gmail.com
 
Actually it is not even the video that bothers me anymore, whether Pakistanis discuss the video or not is a moot point at this stage.
Bottom line is that Taliban and their ilk have and will keep women confined in the Shuttle c o c k Burqah and with nothing to do with the outside world...And this is one of their smaller crimes against Islamic teachings!

They killed a school teacher (ex Mujahid of Afghan war) for not keeping his Shalwar above his knees after he argued with them over their right to impose something as trivial as that on him.
They abduct people on small issues and differences and many do not see the light of day again.
They have a lot more blood on their hands than we care to imagine and our leaders/media have always thrown us at the foreign hands (i do not deny the possibility, would be foolish to do so) but at the same time do not point directly at the evil that sits in our very country in the form of the power hungry /TTP supporting parties and individuals who are hell bent to destroy Pakistan and all Pakistanis who want to live in an oppression free and tolerant society (in the true spirit of Islam).

Where as I can very well imagine this video can be staged, let us not delude ourselves that Taliban, Political religious parties and our Mullahs are representing Islam.
They are most greedy persons on earth who are using Islam to claim power and exercise their control on the poor masses.
All these people are deliberately misinterpreting Islam and expecting us to defend their version of Islam which shall only strangle us eventually since it is based on oppression, brute force and hypocrisy of the highest order.

When the Jamaat Islami’s new Ameer gives a statement that they support Taliban and that Taliban government in Afghanistan was the best ever government; it should give us some Idea of what these people want to do in the name of Islam.
Gain power by oppressing millions and shedding the blood of innocents, all the while claiming to do Allah’s work.

Taliban are the ones sanctioning the killing of our troops who are there to defend Pakistan.
Taliban threaten us with suicide attacks openly and have killed thousands of civilians but still we have most of our people questioning whether they are True Taliban or foreign agents.
Clearly the 40-50000 Taliban burning our country to the rubble cannot all be foreigners otherwise we would have been able to convince the world and ourselves by now.
While we should try to find the funding sources of Taliban and any foreign involvement should be tracked, does that mean that in the meanwhile we close our eyes to Jaws of the beast in front of us, devouring us day by day?

Please see both sides of the line and realize that if we do not defend our country from their retarded ideology, we shall lose all the goodness that we hold dear.
Each and everything!

Now this video if proved fake, would exonerate the Taliban of all their sins in the name of Islam???
Should it legitimize their absolute terrorist hold on the people of SWAT and Tribal areas?
Should it wash away the blood of the innocents which they have slaughtered in the name of Islam and Allah?
Think about it.

Majority of us are struggling to find the balance that the towering personalities of Jinnah and Iqbal struck when they decided that Muslims of North West India should have a separate homeland which shall draw from the distinguishing principles of Islamic equality, justice fair play and shall ensure these values for all the citizens regardless of their religion, race, caste etc.

As a the father of Pakistan once said.
The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan. Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948.

Where do we stand brothers, tell me?
 
For all those liberal fascists who let go no chance to associate criminal acts with Islam. Have a good look of how females are treated in the so-called Civilised Western World. Now what should we call this, Christian Talibans?


And what you want to call this, Hindu Taliban?


What about this, Jewish Talibans?

 
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