V K Singh’s ban on Suhag premeditated, illegal: Govt tells SC

[Joe Shearer]

Thapar - He was asked do an impossible. Nehru paid the price for his one of the worst decision with his life. We can not blame Nehru for not fully able to grasp the need of a strong military. India was grappling with much bigger issues then and he was may be wrongly advised for the forward policy.

Vaidya - He was a fine officer. I do not see any blot on him.

Sundarji - IPKF might not be a grand success, but nevertheless it was an affirmation of India as a major player in our region to maintain peace and security. The USA is a super power, we can see how successful they are in Afganistan and were in Vietnama.

So Thapar was not at fault, Nehru was not at fault, Krishna Menon doesn't find mention, and nobody wants to criticise one of those fine, upstanding Kashmiri Pandits. Damn that stupid PLA for beating us into a screaming nightmare. Spoilsport idiots.

Vaidya, egged on by Sundarji, went and assured Indira Gandhi that a fully military solution to Bhindranwale was possible. Blue Star followed.

The trouble with us is that nobody is held accountable even for the most egregious failure. Just lift that carpet a little higher, will you?

Sundarji walked us into an expedition for which we were totally unprepared, and the justification is that it was an affirmation of India as a major player in our region to maintain peace and security.

That's true. Our intervention in Myanmar, in Bangladesh, in Baluchistan, in Afghanistan, even in Nepal wouldn't have been possible without that proud episode having happened. Hey, getting licked by the LTTE was all right. How else do you get to be a regional hegemon?

I foresee a bright future for you.

@Joe Shearer whats your take on VKS joining politics... How do you view it.

I happened to see a news flash (VKS statement) which could bring further embarrassment to army and we PDF indians.....

Not a good idea, for V. K. Singh to join politics. If he wins, he will have to withstand the strain of not intervening in his own matter, or against all those who hated him in the past.

Soldiers are soldiers, politicians are politicians, the two aren't really compatible, Jaswant Singh and General Khandure notwithstanding.

As far as the news flash is concerned, the Ministry had been coached carefully to insist, in season and out of season, that V. K. Singh was wrong. It took some time to change the tape, apparently, and the Ministry apparently didn't 'get' it. They came out with the same anti-V. K. line and the egg came right across the fan at them.

Ok.... If Pakistan thinks that indian army is doing terrorism through Afghanistan does it allow us to do same with covert operation....

When did you ever stop?

V.K.Singh or Fahad Bhai Bhai....

Agree

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Criminals taking over IA. More tatras in line

 

[pt1982]

So Thapar was not at fault, Nehru was not at fault, Krishna Menon doesn't find mention, and nobody wants to criticise one of those fine, upstanding Kashmiri Pandits. Damn that stupid PLA for beating us into a screaming nightmare. Spoilsport idiots.

Vaidya, egged on by Sundarji, went and assured Indira Gandhi that a fully military solution to Bhindranwale was possible. Blue Star followed.

The trouble with us is that nobody is held accountable even for the most egregious failure. Just lift that carpet a little higher, will you?

Sundarji walked us into an expedition for which we were totally unprepared, and the justification is that it was an affirmation of India as a major player in our region to maintain peace and security.

That's true. Our intervention in Myanmar, in Bangladesh, in Baluchistan, in Afghanistan, even in Nepal wouldn't have been possible without that proud episode having happened. Hey, getting licked by the LTTE was all right. How else do you get to be a regional hegemon?

I foresee a bright future for you.



Not a good idea, for V. K. Singh to join politics. If he wins, he will have to withstand the strain of not intervening in his own matter, or against all those who hated him in the past.

Soldiers are soldiers, politicians are politicians, the two aren't really compatible, Jaswant Singh and General Khandure notwithstanding.

As far as the news flash is concerned, the Ministry had been coached carefully to insist, in season and out of season, that V. K. Singh was wrong. It took some time to change the tape, apparently, and the Ministry apparently didn't 'get' it. They came out with the same anti-V. K. line and the egg came right across the fan at them.



When did you ever stop?

I think, I have held Nehru responsible for this; yes partially. The reason I have also mentioned.

The action in Punjab is 100% correct. Any nationalist will do it. We are not here to entertain religious sermons. Temples and mosques are for peace, not religious demagogues to give sermons.

Why do you think, India Army is kind of super heroes? They suffered reverses in an uncharted territory and the adversary, LTTE, was not a rag tag outfit. Major powers have suffered such reverses even if they have many such interventions to their credit. I do not see this as any regional hegemony as far as India as concerned.

 

[Abingdonboy]

V.K. Singh makes final bid to derail Army succession

VK Singh's every step - be it the court case of his age or be his case against Suhag were motivated to make Ashok Singh the next army chief. That is the reason he was not made MOS in DM. Modi should immediately remove this guy from ministry. PERIOD.

who is related to V.K. Singh through marriage. V.K. Singh's daughter is married to Ashok Singh's son.

Is this for real?? VK Singh says there is some sort of nexus for COAS from JJ Singh to Bikram Singh now to Suhag and all whilst THIS was the case? The hypocrisy here is hard to stomach. I honestly thought he had some integrity but now....

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why do you dislike Sunderji and Vaidya?

Who said anything about dislike? What a very strange comment to make.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think, I have held Nehru responsible for this; yes partially. The reason I have also mentioned.

The action in Punjab is 100% correct. Any nationalist will do it. We are not here to entertain religious sermons. Temples and mosques are for peace, not religious demagogues to give sermons.

Why do you think, India Army is kind of super heroes? They suffered reverses in an uncharted territory and the adversary, LTTE, was not a rag tag outfit. Major powers have suffered such reverses even if they have many such interventions to their credit. I do not see this as any regional hegemony as far as India as concerned.

I do not like ignorance, and I do not like ignorant opinions.

1. Your reasons for not attributing responsibility to Thapar are weak. I repeat: he should have resigned the moment Nehru and Krishna Menon started interfering with the Army's policies regarding appointments of command officers. I was not referring to the forward policy, but specifically to the appointment of B. M. Kaul.
2. The action in the Punjab was 100% wrong. There was no planning. The field commanders, Brar among them, warned that there would be no easy wins. It was Vaidya, prompted by Sundarji, who went up to the group of advisors, Rajiv Gandhi, Arun Singh and Arun Nehru, and persuaded them that a military solution was possible. They, in turn, convinced Mrs. Gandhi to take this fatal step. I suggest you read up on the military background before making a jingoistic comment. Nationalism had nothing to do with it; military feasibility did. And the costs were huge, and still overshadow the Indian Army. Obviously you have noticed nothing strange in the jockeying for power in recent tenures of the COAS. I suggest you find out more and then comment.
3. The misadventure in Sri Lanka was another Sundarji adventure. There was no planning, no logistic support, no formations and no balance in assigned troops, just a half-assed expedition. The fact is that we had no capability then, we have no capability now. All that we did in expeditionary terms was taught to us by the British, with the wealth of experience of six hundred years of military expeditions behind them.
   Have you asked yourself why and how our units were sent into uncharted territory in the first place? And who armed the LTTE, which you so respectfully point out was not a rag-tag outfit? What was wrong with statecraft and with military planning that armed a guerrilla force, then went and attacked them - without preparation? And you think that was a military achievement?

Is this for real?? VK Singh says there is some sort of nexus for COAS from JJ Singh to Bikram Singh now to Suhag and all whilst THIS was the case? The hypocrisy here is hard to stomach. I honestly thought he had some integrity but now....

Sadly, both are true. Find out about the infamous "Look Down" policy. This is why the military should - must - be kept out of politics.

Just ask our friends and neighbours. They are still paying the price.

 

[arp2041]

Is this for real?? VK Singh says there is some sort of nexus for COAS from JJ Singh to Bikram Singh now to Suhag and all whilst THIS was the case? The hypocrisy here is hard to stomach. I honestly thought he had some integrity but now....

Oh that great word called INTEGRITY, it's on sale in a country like India, just tag the RIGHT PRICE!!

P.S. My price is $50,000

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

When did you ever stop?

Does our any Army chief admitted openly that they were involve in covert operation..... The Answers is NOOOOO.... We know both countries tries to hurt each other......

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks to Indira Gandhi, forget China.This is not the first time that I have said this, and definitely not the last, "A bad leader is not the one who takes bad decisions, a bad leader is the one who takes no decisions."

@nForce not a good analysis.

Thanks to Muchu Chaudhuri, long before Indira Gandhi, thanks also to K, AND to a factor that we tend to neglect, the faithful stewardship of ministers like Yashwantrao Chavan, and to a lesser extent, Jagjivan Ram.

Indira Gandhi had two prominent moments - appointing Sam Manekshaw over Harbaksh Singh, who had a very good battle and command record, and who was highly deserving, and listening to him when he sought time for the Bangladesh operation.

C'mon, get serious about our own military history.

Yea, Nehru hated the military and he was afraid military take over after what happened in Pakistan so he kept promoting incompetent/loyal officers . He also wanted to disband the army entirely and leave security of India to police . I heard the army was devoid of any proper equipment and civilian administration had way too much control. Thanks to China and the 1962 war or esle 1971 would have been India's biggest blunder

Did you know that one minister (not of Defence, thank Heavens) wanted to convert the Army to PT shoes, to avoid the use of leather?

And another who wanted to convert the defence production factories to making consumer equipment for homes?

Does our any Army chief admitted openly that they were involve in covert operation..... The Answers is NOOOOO.... We know both countries tries to hurt each other......

Some time, open a thread on this - not for a month, please, my health is killing me slowly, literally, and I need to get myself treated, plus massive curriculum overhaul is going on - and we'll talk about this. I would like an opportunity to put the details in front of you, and show that between us, one nation has been the aggressor - almost always, with one overwhelmingly large exception - and the other has been the attacked.

Give me a chance, and read with an open mind.

 

[sancho]

V.K. Singh makes final bid to derail Army succession

VK Singh's every step - be it the court case of his age or be his case against Suhag were motivated to make Ashok Singh the next army chief. That is the reason he was not made MOS in DM. Modi should immediately remove this guy from ministry. PERIOD.

Wasn't he the best choice as the next DM for you?

 

[arp2041]

Wasn't he the best choice as the next DM for you?

Nope, Absolutely not.......................

This can be dangerous......

A retd. Army General would have leanings towards Army which in turn can effect modernization of IAF & IN.

A neutral person would be a better DM.

Instead, I was cheering for My Man NaMo!!!

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Guys saw an interview yesterday at timesnow .. a retired army chief was present in the debate ... he made a point which made me think

He said, why cannot a guy question the integrity of a to be appointed army chief..

to which panelists replied tht he has been cleared by army court of not being involved into illegal raid

To which this guy said

firstly : Suhag wasnt part of the inquiry as he was an high office to be trialed by the tribunal

secondly : VK Singh blames suhag of corruption charges not illegal raids, this as he was when VK Singh was chief of army staff

If the above said thing is true ... i do think an inquiry should be set

 

[Screambowl]

V.K: singh is only trying to avoid those officers taking a big responsibility , who are already tainted, because later it will be government's responsibility.

 

[nForce]

@nForce not a good analysis.

Thanks to Muchu Chaudhuri, long before Indira Gandhi, thanks also to K, AND to a factor that we tend to neglect, the faithful stewardship of ministers like Yashwantrao Chavan, and to a lesser extent, Jagjivan Ram.

Indira Gandhi had two prominent moments - appointing Sam Manekshaw over Harbaksh Singh, who had a very good battle and command record, and who was highly deserving, and listening to him when he sought time for the Bangladesh operation.

C'mon, get serious about our own military history.

Glad to have someone like you among us.
I will get back to you on this when I will feel I am fully informed about the subject.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Glad to have someone like you among us.
I will get back to you on this when I will feel I am fully informed about the subject.

I'm very sorry.

I think that should have been,"...appointing Sam Manekshaw over Prem Bhagat". At the distance of these years, I confused the choice of Kumaramangalam, when Harbaksh was, I believe, a contender, with that of Manekshaw, when Prem Bhagat being superseded, in spite of being the senior, shocked sections of the Army. Prem Bhagat was always a soldiers' soldier, just as much as Sam Bahadur was, and was a hero as much as Manekshaw was, with a VC against an MC. When he died unexpectedly, his former juniors didn't allow Mohini or the children to lift a finger; everything was done by them, with military precision, and with the love and reverence that they so obviously felt for the author of the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat Report.