US Wants Dutch Supplier ASML to Stop Selling Chipmaking Gear to China

[Beast]

You lost the coolness. Why so angry? Didn’t you say Europe has no technology? So no reason to worry.

Did he even sound angry in first place?

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

sort of a power play, the Americans are about to admit defeat in the trade war so need something else to look tough

 

[Imran Khan]

i just find hypocrisy in two lines

 

[Yaoudelizard]

Maybe not be harder, although the EUV lihtography is called a marvel technology, but dont expect it can be solved in fast manner nor easy as reverse engineering as said above.

If it can be done, it will be done. That’s the bottom line. The only variables are time and money.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

If the Netherlands agrees,

Does Netherlands dare to go against the US? It is not a question of "if" but "when".

i just find hypocrisy in two lines


View attachment 859547

Did Netherlands beg and plead the US to stop Tesla sales in China?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If they’re playing that game, just reverse engineer what they sold you already and screw their copy right.

China will have the 5nm lithography machine by 2025.

We just want to keep everything in low profile.

Otherwise, we will have to deal with more sabotage which is annoying.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If it can be done, it will be done. That’s the bottom line. The only variables are time and money.

The EUV lithography machine is not a big deal for us, and it could be already in groundbreaking mode by China's research teams.

However, sometimes we do pretend to struggle a little bit. Otherwise, the US will be in total desperation and will probably trigger the WWIII right now.

 

[Song Hong]

I dont think China can make EUV machine within 5 years. China cannot make DUV within 5 years.

The photo diodes come from US and lens comes from Germany. If US and Germany started embargo at component level, I guess 2040 would even be optimistic.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Harder than building space ships and stations? You’re just afraid they might actually try, that’s why you’re wasting so many words trying to convince people it’s not worth it.

Yes, much harder. Instrumentation is a different thing, major challenge will be to make a photoresist that polymerizes/depolymerizes at that wavelength of light. And to make sure the aspect ratio of the patterned photoresist is good enough to have any meaningful yield of devices in a wafer.

 

[Song Hong]

Many people wrongly believe the Dutch can build EUV lithography by themselves. In reality ASML is just a system integrator. The core technologies are the US and German suppliers. In reality, EUV lithography is the pinnacle of western world industries, and far more difficult than jet engine.

Even if US cannot make it herself if she is not using any components from foreigners.

 

[antonius123]

If it can be done, it will be done. That’s the bottom line. The only variables are time and money.

Surely China can always do that, but it will be always 1 or 2 generation behind if she pursue without right strategy.
The real problem is not about can or can't be done, but how China could be independent from US and becoming on par/close the gap with competitors SK, Taiwan, US VERY SOON.
China need to go on other alternative technology in the same time, such as: graphene or photon chip; I see these are faster to close the gap because China is at the same level with SK/ROK/US rather than current chip technology where China still maintain her position 2 or even wider to 3 generation behind competitors. I see she is already on the right track.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

There is no secret in how lithography machine works. The precision is the thing matters. What China needs is, improving precision level for all machining works.

No, the problem is China is not thinking out of the box on alternatives to lithography. Why waste your time reverse engineering something when a better way is likely on the horizon but nobody is actively looking for it.

This reminds me of all the energy China spent trying to reverse engineer metal turbine jet engine blades. By the time they did western engine makers had moved to ceramics making the whole effort moot. It would have been better to recognize ceramics as the future and throw all that effort into that.

 

[antonius123]

No, the problem is China is not thinking out of the box on alternatives to lithography. Why waste your time reverse engineering something when a better way is likely on the horizon but nobody is actively looking for it.

This reminds me of all the energy China spent trying to reverse engineer metal turbine jet engine blades. By the time they did western engine makers had moved to ceramics making the whole effort moot. It would have been better to recognize ceramics as the future and throw all that effort into that.

Thats not true.
As I said above: "graphene or photonic chip" could be a game changer, and China is on the right track.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Thats not true.
As I said above: "graphene or photonic chip" could be a game changer, and China is on the right track.

Batch processing of graphene is still a challenge.

 

[Yaoudelizard]

Surely China can always do that, but it will be always 1 or 2 generation behind if she pursue without right strategy.
The real problem is not about can or can't be done, but how China could be independent from US and becoming on par/close the gap with competitors SK, Taiwan, US VERY SOON.
China need to go on other alternative technology in the same time, such as: graphene or photon chip; I see these are faster to close the gap because China is at the same level with SK/ROK/US rather than current chip technology where China still maintain her position 2 or even wider to 3 generation behind competitors. I see she is already on the right track.

You never quite know with China, every few years they come out with technology that you never thought they had. I think this is what’s threatening for the US.