US strikes in Pakistan will continue: Gates

[roadrunner]

Pashtun and Assad,

You both have points I can agree to.

I think in some ways Assad has a point about the marriages. The Afghans never liked the Arabs interfering with the war against the Soviets. They saw them as baggage. Yet the Arabs remained behind because their own countries didn't want them. So they married into some of the tribes. I get a feeling money was a motivating factor in some cases, it's a shame in that case. People know not what they do.

I agree with you Pashtun, that violence is not th answer in the region. It was radicalization through education that caused the problem, the way to undo the mess is to educate people through development.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Cut it out.

No one gave anyone here any right to start abusing someone else for not having honor or whatever.

Learn to show respect towards those who might disagree with you. This lack of tolerance towards a different opinion and view is at the heart of the perverted ideology of the Taliban and extremists like them.

Discuss things without name calling or you guys will be earning infractions and bans.

 

[Pashtun]

Pashtun and Assad,

You both have points I can agree to.

I think in some ways Assad has a point about the marriages. The Afghans never liked the Arabs interfering with the war against the Soviets. They saw them as baggage. Yet the Arabs remained behind because their own countries didn't want them. So they married into some of the tribes. I get a feeling money was a motivating factor in some cases, it's a shame in that case. People know not what they do.

I agree with you Pashtun, that violence is not th answer in the region. It was radicalization through education that caused the problem, the way to undo the mess is to educate people through development.

Dear roadrunner, we were not talking about the Afghans here, we were talking about Pakistanis. Afghans (non-communists) loved the Arabs, and (comunists) hated them and considered them excess baggage. But the fighters, that were brought to Pakistan and trained and provided to fight soviet union for a decade, intermingled with the people they ate, drank, fought shoulder to shoulder with. There's no shame in this, the way assad protrayed it by mudslinging on Pakistanis for for marrying their women with other Muslims.

The fact is, Muslims is a Muslim, and one is allowed to marry other Muslim. There's no shame in it. There's no restriction on it. And that is what he insulted the Pakistanis marrying their women to other Muslims who fought shoulder to shoulder with them to save Pakistan from red menace.

And yet we turned around and insulted them! It's beyond my imagination, honour and dignity. To me a Muslim is a Muslim, whether a Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi or an Arab.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

No Assad, its your bloody shameless comments regarding women that should be called the turd of heart you got. This is what you learnt from America? picking on women when you don't have any evidence and proofs to back up your argument?

Honour never went pass your home I guess. Have some shame and lern to respect women. Insulting and blaming them with such shameless comments makes you an uncouth animal. Shame on you!

well, I guess if you think that pashtun women are just tools for reproduction for egyptian, saudi, and uzbek fighters, I can't really do much here. if you think that pashtun women are just pieces of cloth that your fighters can just screw around with, and produce children who will blow themselves up at the ripe and tender age of ten, I guess you're right? my comments aren't shameless, they have a point.

Your points are incoherent, you blame western agents who are foreigners, then you blame me for talking against these foreigners. You blame the army for killing militants, then you blame the army for not killing them? if there are "spies" amongst the the militant groups, why don't they just do a peek around their private parts for any uncircumsized sticks with bushes? are they afraid because they already know that there are kuffar amongst them and they have just realized that they were being stupid for the last 7 years?

 

[roadrunner]

Dear roadrunner, we were not talking about the Afghans here, we were talking about Pakistanis. Afghans (non-communists) loved the Arabs, and (comunists) hated them and considered them excess baggage. But the fighters, that were brought to Pakistan and trained and provided to fight soviet union for a decade, intermingled with the people they ate, drank, fought shoulder to shoulder with. There's no shame in this, the way assad protrayed it by mudslinging on Pakistanis for for marrying their women with other Muslims.

The fact is, Muslims is a Muslim, and one is allowed to marry other Muslim. There's no shame in it. There's no restriction on it. And that is what he insulted the Pakistanis marrying their women to other Muslims who fought shoulder to shoulder with them to save Pakistan from red menace.

And yet we turned around and insulted them! It's beyond my imagination, honour and dignity. To me a Muslim is a Muslim, whether a Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi or an Arab.

Alright, fine, Muslims can marry anyone, I don't disagree.

But just because someone fought shoulder to shoulder is no reason to marry someone off.

I don't like the whole ideology that infected the region in the eighties. That ideology was some sort of weird hybrid between Indian deobandism and Arab wahhabism. So naturally their ideology (of the Arabs seemed kosher). It's a foreign ideology, and shouldn't have been spread.

I'm not so sure you're right the non communist afghans thought the arabs were great though, at least in the fighting dept. I read they even saw them as a nuisance.

Anyhow, those were Afghan Afghans, not Pakistani Afghans. I'll read up more on it.

 

[Pashtun]

Alright, fine, Muslims can marry anyone, I don't disagree.

But just because someone fought shoulder to shoulder is no reason to marry someone off.

I don't like the whole ideology that infected the region in the eighties. That ideology was some sort of weird hybrid between Indian deobandism and Arab wahhabism. So naturally their ideology (of the Arabs seemed kosher). It's a foreign ideology, and shouldn't have been spread.

I'm not so sure you're right the non communist afghans thought the arabs were great though, at least in the fighting dept. I read they even saw them as a nuisance.

Anyhow, those were Afghan Afghans, not Pakistani Afghans. I'll read up more on it.

Well then blame the establishment for letting the foreigners in Pakistan and nourshing, training and providing them back in 80s. You can't blame the mujahideen for that.

And really, the bond between those who fought together with the enemy, is stronger than those who just watched from the sidelines. e.g. the bond between Pakistan and China is much stronger than Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Why? because China fought along side Pakistan (so to speak). And that kind of bond, produces all kinds of results.

 

[roadrunner]

Well then blame the establishment for letting the foreigners in Pakistan and nourshing, training and providing them back in 80s. You can't blame the mujahideen for that.

And really, the bond between those who fought together with the enemy, is stronger than those who just watched from the sidelines. e.g. the bond between Pakistan and China is much stronger than Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Why? because China fought along side Pakistan (so to speak). And that kind of bond, produces all kinds of results.

You'e right. they are partially t blame. The unelected government of Zia supported by $$ and equipment by the US. The way to undo it would be through education. I think everyone agrees on that, except obviously the US with its drone policy.

I hope ZA Bhutto would have been wiser, and that was the reason for his demise.

 

[Pashtun]

well, I guess if you think that pashtun women are just tools for reproduction for egyptian, saudi, and uzbek fighters, I can't really do much here. if you think that pashtun women are just pieces of cloth that your fighters can just screw around with, and produce children who will blow themselves up at the ripe and tender age of ten, I guess you're right? my comments aren't shameless, they have a point.

Can someone please notice of these insults on women? This is going way too far. I have been holding myself back on the request of Moderator by giving piece of my mind to this uncounth animal, who have no respect for the women and making such insulting and derogatory comments.

Can the moderators look at this trolling?

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Well then blame the establishment for letting the foreigners in Pakistan and nourshing, training and providing them back in 80s. You can't blame the mujahideen for that.

And really, the bond between those who fought together with the enemy, is stronger than those who just watched from the sidelines. e.g. the bond between Pakistan and China is much stronger than Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Why? because China fought along side Pakistan (so to speak). And that kind of bond, produces all kinds of results.

Roadrunner, please ignore these baseless rants. I'm 100% sure central intelligence and MI6 exported fighters from the middle east and even UK to fight against the soviets when the afghans started to loose heart, and when afghan blood was of short supply. ISI/PA only helped its local fighters and themselves against the soviets, foreigners were not liked at all. It was even predicted back then, because of foreigners, FATA would go out of control. it's only because of the "wisdom" of the tribal elders, they gave their women and hospitality, in exchange for their bodies to be covered with bullets.

P.S: to make an even better point that should end this argument, there is no way that Pakistan, let alone the ISI, would be able to support fighters coming in from the middle east and the west. they definitely did not have the money at the time, or even now. they definitely did not have the infrastructure and intelligence networks set up at the time, they still don't have that now. can we really have a whole wing set up in arabia, egypt, UK and other countries? it's very clear who brought these guys into our areas, always follow the yellowbrick road to the west!

 

[roadrunner]

Lol. relax, chill.

Let me summarize, alright?

The Arab fighters intermingled with locals in FATA. A bad idea - Assad.

They can marry who they want to - Pashtun.

Alright, fair points. They can marry who they want to, and there were some bad points to this idea. I can agree with both.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Lol. relax, chill.

Let me summarize, alright?

The Arab fighters intermingled with locals in FATA. A bad idea - Assad.

They can marry who they want to - Pashtun.

Alright, fair points. They can marry who they want to, and there were some bad points to this idea. I can agree with both.

I've never seen the frustrated side of Roadrunner! no matter, I hold no grudge here to begin with, and I don't take this stuff to heart. I always make sure my point gets across and that I'm right!

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

People like you caused us Pakistani East Pakistan. Such arrogant and ignorant attitude have caused us one of our arm. Because People like you made Dhakka Fall, by killing the innocent people left n right on the name of controlling the situation with tanks and jets. People like you are causing us Balochistan by saying "Hum unhein wahan sey marein gay, jahan say unhein pata bhi nahin lagay ga", and people like you now are causing us NWFP with such desires.

Remember your General Yahya's bloody remarks about Bengali resistance? Yahya declared: "Kill 3 million of them and the rest will eat out of our hands."

His words were as boar as yours. His arrogance was as high as yours. His head was as off as yours.

I can't believe I did not catch this earlier! I was actually ignoring the insulting parts of these guys post, until my eyes recently caught the subliminal messaging this guy's trying to get across.

why not just openly say it now, the Pakistani army is a Punjabi army that has annexed your pakhtun territory along with balochistan and bengal? it's remarkable how you pashtun nationalists (or should I say separatists) can ignore the fact that the army alone composes of 30% pashtuns, most of the agents of the ISI are pashtun, not to mention the pashtuns in the other armed forces. Why not admit that Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were both pashtuns?

 

[Pashtun]

I can't believe I did not catch this earlier! I was actually ignoring the insulting parts of these guys post, until my eyes recently caught the subliminal messaging this guy's trying to get across.

why not just openly say it now, the Pakistani army is a Punjabi army that has annexed your pakhtun territory along with balochistan and bengal? it's remarkable how you pashtun nationalists (or should I say separatists) can ignore the fact that the army alone composes of 30% pashtuns, most of the agents of the ISI are pashtun, not to mention the pashtuns in the other armed forces. Why not admit that Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were both pashtuns?

Actually I am not a Pashtun nationalist. I am strongly against the idea of seperatism and I am strongly against ANP. Neither I believe in this Punjabi/Pathan/Balochi crap.

The truth is, you have a set mentality of racism in you and that just came out. The fact is, you could not answer the questions, so you resorted to racism and tried to play that "pashtun nationalist" card.

It's a shame, really. If you can't argue on the bases of evidence and logic, then don't flare the racism and nationalism card to prove your farce.

 

[Vics]

You'e right. they are partially t blame. The unelected government of Zia supported by $$ and equipment by the US. The way to undo it would be through education. I think everyone agrees on that, except obviously the US with its drone policy.

I hope ZA Bhutto would have been wiser, and that was the reason for his demise.

On this may I ask why youngsters in Pakistan don't come out to the street and throw these Generals when they come? Why no new faces in politics in Pakistan that is the way out. Democracy at all levels will do a world of good to your country.

When we see drone victims like children and ladies we feel for Pakistan from bottom of our heart. How innocent people are paying for sins of past generals. Friends today it is Taliban which is a trouble for you tomorrow it will be LeT and Jaish and others. Never let a kid pick up a gun when he should be picking up a pen however big the cause maybe.

There is a army to defend the country and government to do the diplomacy. How many poor young boys has become cannon fodder for world forces in name of Jihad. You feel it is right and justified when done against India but this is a mindset that outgrows the use and becomes a killing machine till silenced.

You can choose to hate India not agree with us on any issue, but there are ways and means of protest. How many generals, so called defense analyst & politicians send their children in to Jihad to become cannon fodder....they pack them off to cool climes of US and Europe for higher education and a possible citizenship there.

India also have lot of problems to overcome things are far from perfect but we are in the right direction and the effort is on its for all to see. If Pakistan decides to change the way it thinks and move forward I feel you will be more strong and confident nation in all respects. In the years to come nations will be known and acknowledged by the stock of people they have not the arms and ammunition they have.

 

[waraich66]

Can someone please notice of these insults on women? This is going way too far. I have been holding myself back on the request of Moderator by giving piece of my mind to this uncounth animal, who have no respect for the women and making such insulting and derogatory comments.

Can the moderators look at this trolling?

Pasthtun,

That guy is lost in western culture ,we can expect this type of disgusting things from him.

Pashtun belong to basically arabs ,ban israel ,therefore we should respect because in our every paryer we send darood salam to Al ibrahim.

I sugest asadislam read islamic history he is ignorant .Must opologise for his remarks about pushtoon women