US seal on India’s key role in rebuilding Afghanistan.

[Edevelop]

We are giving them roads, hospitals, schools, jobs, education - most basic things that were expected to be provided by you. By providing such basic things we are giving afghan people hope and aspirations. Your best gift to Afghanistan was taliban in which you people often take pride.

We don't take 'pride' in Taliban. Naturally later they would be the ones who will become our enemy. For now, it is the right of Pakistan to do what it wants for self defence specifically stopping your fuel of Balochistan unrest, After reading your comment about Pakistan's gift to Afghnistan, maybe you forgot the 1 million + refugees and the aid of $500 million to Afghan government to build infrastructure. Its easy for you to blame Pakistan because it is your first enemy. Its funny to see your comments on Afganistan because this is the same country you were against during Soviet days. Your sole purpose there is of a conflict of interest coming directly from 'Chankya philosophy'. Being friends with enemy's neighbours is one example !

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I am not even talking about your strategic depth or us using them against you. All I am talking about is - A Talibani ideology has been a curse for the region and it can only be wiped out by development and education. Believe me Taliban is an equal threat to Pakistan as it is to others including India.. Planning to use them for some gains in not going to help anyone. Also, one thing that as a Pakistanis you need to accept and that is - Afghanistan is an Independent country and can have its share of good or bad relations with any one. You can not expect them to follow some diktat..

we can treat them as independent when they reclaim all their refugees and stop mis-identifying themselves as Pakistanis just to get registration cards....we can treat them as sovereign when they respect and recognize the borders (which many do, but many dont as well); and when they stop allowing their territory to be used for nefarious purposes by the enemies of Pakistan

btw, you supported the "other" faction (northern alliance) whose human rights record is as shady as the talebans (heavily involved in narcotics trafficking as well, which directly affects us)

you talk about development and education....but how do you first alter their mindsets (on broader level) so that they put value on these things. The mindset has to change first.

as for Pakistan, we will do what's in our best national interests -- like what any country would do

 

[shiv]

we can treat them as independent when they reclaim all their refugees and stop mis-identifying themselves as Pakistanis just to get registration cards....we can treat them as sovereign when they respect and recognize the borders (which many do, but many dont as well); and when they stop allowing their territory to be used for nefarious purposes by the enemies of Pakistan

btw, you supported the "other" faction (northern alliance) whose human rights record is as shady as the talebans (heavily involved in narcotics trafficking as well, which directly affects us)

you talk about development and education....but how do you first alter their mindsets (on broader level) so that they put value on these things. The mindset has to change first.

as for Pakistan, we will do what's in our best national interests -- like what any country would do

Not NA per se.. certain warlords like Abdul Rashid Dostum etc records were shady but most NA alliance members had integrity.. how well taliban captives were kept under NA allaiance is well documented..

 

[Armstrong]

I am not even talking about your strategic depth or us using them against you. All I am talking about is - A Talibani ideology has been a curse for the region and it can only be wiped out by development and education. Believe me Taliban is an equal threat to Pakistan as it is to others including India.. Planning to use them for some gains in not going to help anyone. Also, one thing that as a Pakistanis you need to accept and that is - Afghanistan is an Independent country and can have its share of good or bad relations with any one. You can not expect them to follow some diktat..

Ahhh this is going to take a while !

The Talibani ideology is more or less embedded in those areas for no insurgency can survive without the people's supprot ! The Northern Alliance, Dostum, Hikmatyar, Omar & about a dozen other warlords were just as regressive as the oft-maligned one of them - Omar.

Pakistan neither supported the Taliban because we & them were ideologically on the same page nor because we were looking to find foot soldiers to send to Kashmir. We supported them because at the end of the war when the International Community & in particular the US, who had rooted for the same Mujahideen till their throats started bleeding, turned their back on both Pakistan & Afghanistan. When what was required was for the International Community to engage in 'Nation Building' to ensure that generations of Afghans & Pakistani Pashtuns who'd known nothing but war, death, destruction & the rhetoric that goes with it are absorbed back into the mainstream society as constructive individuals through education, counseling & economic opportunities, were left to fend for themselves ! In that chaos the Mujahideen of yesterday became the personal armies of one warlord or another till Afghanistan was drenched in more blood than it probably was during the Soviet occupation. The influx of refugees into Pakistan increased even further & a country that had held them for a decade & now was faced with crippling sanctions because our use ran out was to provide a home for anywhere between 4-5 million Afghans many of whom were so drastically effected by the war that calling them a 'burden' on our economy & our community would be an understatement. In that vacuum an opportunity was seen - a faction out of the same blood thirsty, vengeful factions arose one that was amenable to Pakistan, wanted to go back to Afghanistan & held the promise to bring some semblance of stability to an otherwise self-imploding Afghanistan; in short they were the best amongst a very...very bad deck of cards. We used it & it worked for a time before events unfolded as such that one of their guests rammed a foOking plane in the World Trade Centre. We didn't ask for this...we just improvised to make the best of a really foOked up situation.

Right now we fear a repeat of more of the same happening again ! I wish it doesn't...I wish that you guys, Sher & others are right but the same optimism doesn't permeate us. Afghanistan may yet descend into warlordism again & both of our countries will suffer. The problem is further compounded by the Afghan Taliban not being on the best of terms with us ! The US leaves in 2014 like it did ever so many summers before...what becomes of us ? Why do we stir up a hornet's nest when we know that we're going to loose big time ! So for now its neither ideological convergence nor a master-slave relationship that drives us but pure 'expedience' - The Taliban aren't going to die out...the post-withdrawal Afghanistan isn't going to be progressive, blood-less & stable & we're still stuck with them on the West !

But of course all of this is 'our narrative' & it is neither the mainstream one nor what you guys usually throw at us ! So Ciao...!

 

[Ticker]

India is providing development assistance to Afghanistan but it has similar serious issues troubling at home as well. Many of the same things that Afghanistan needs, from infrastructure to education, India is having trouble providing for many of her citizens, even without the regular threat of attacks from the Taliban.

India’s state-run power industry struggles to get enough fuel thanks to mismanagement and bureaucracy, even its brightest youth can’t land a spot at a good university and almost a half of its citizens live in destitute poverty, with hundreds of millions malnourished. The current central government is grappling with a growing deficit, shrinking economic growth and an increasingly dissatisfied voter base.

It’s no surprise that India’s Afghanistan assistance is even greeted with some skepticism in Afghanistan as well as in the world.
As someone said, “In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”

There are 3-4 major projects that India had started in Afghanistan. Zaranj – Dilaram Road, connecting the Chahbahar port in Iran. This road is hardly used for moving supplies etc into Afghanistan. The Iranians have connected Chahbahar port to another city in Iran and connected it to Afghanistan via recently constructed bridge. Even inside Afghanistan, the road is under Taliban control and since US vacated Nimroz, this road has become useless for the Indians and others.

The second was Salma Dam project. It was built on a river flowing into Iran and was supposed to irrigate 75000 hectares of land in Afghanistan. However, since Iran protested as it would reduce the water flow into Iran and also due to security problems, the work on the project has been stopped. India has also stopped to provide further funding for the project.

They are building the Afghan Assembly building. If it is for a democracy like India, which is soaked in blood for her own people, God help Afghanistan.

Then the project to provide electricity from CARs for Kabul. We will have more electricity in Kabul when and if all, this line reaches Kabul.

What more do you want to show for your assistance to Afghanistan. Yes they do watch Indian films and so do people in Pakistan. I don’t think there is any harm in watching Indian women dancing, is there !

 

[shiv]

India is providing development assistance to Afghanistan but it has similar serious issues troubling at home as well. Many of the same things that Afghanistan needs, from infrastructure to education, India is having trouble providing for many of her citizens, even without the regular threat of attacks from the Taliban.

India’s state-run power industry struggles to get enough fuel thanks to mismanagement and bureaucracy, even its brightest youth can’t land a spot at a good university and almost a half of its citizens live in destitute poverty, with hundreds of millions malnourished. The current central government is grappling with a growing deficit, shrinking economic growth and an increasingly dissatisfied voter base.

It’s no surprise that India’s Afghanistan assistance is even greeted with some skepticism in Afghanistan as well as in the world.
As someone said, “In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”

There are 3-4 major projects that India had started in Afghanistan. Zaranj – Dilaram Road, connecting the Chahbahar port in Iran. This road is hardly used for moving supplies etc into Afghanistan. The Iranians have connected Chahbahar port to another city in Iran and connected it to Afghanistan via recently constructed bridge. Even inside Afghanistan, the road is under Taliban control and since US vacated Nimroz, this road has become useless for the Indians and others.

The second was Salma Dam project. It was built on a river flowing into Iran and was supposed to irrigate 75000 hectares of land in Afghanistan. However, since Iran protested as it would reduce the water flow into Iran and also due to security problems, the work on the project has been stopped. India has also stopped to provide further funding for the project.

They are building the Afghan Assembly building. If it is for a democracy like India, which is soaked in blood for her own people, God help Afghanistan.

Then the project to provide electricity from CARs for Kabul. We will have more electricity in Kabul when and if all, this line reaches Kabul.

What more do you want to show for your assistance to Afghanistan. Yes they do watch Indian films and so do people in Pakistan. I don’t think there is any harm in watching Indian women dancing, is there !

typical tripe from a pakistani.. can't make logical arguments !!!

 

[Tshering22]

umm the same "taliban" that attacked kamra airbase and your naval airwing. you must be so proud !!

Apparently they were the TTP that we "fund".

Pakistan's only hope of geo-political relevance in Afghanistan is Taliban and ISI will do its nut to make sure that Taliban lives. This may include taking the insane risk of conflict with NATO even if need be. Because if Taliban bites the dust, the next country NATO will target will be Pakistan.

Those who hvae guns in Afghanistan controls it ie Taliban and india cant do anything without taliban's nod their after usa leaves and to get taliban's nod india has to put petition at GHQ RWP.

Keep dreaming about that as NATO dismantles your darling Talibans out. Once their area of interest is secure, the next invasion is going to be you guys.

And to think that you were anywhere even counted in WOT.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not NA per se.. certain warlords like Abdul Rashid Dostum etc records were shady but most NA alliance members had integrity.. how well taliban captives were kept under NA allaiance is well documented..

joke of the century! or was it sarcasm?

perhaps you're unfamiliar with what was going on just after the '01 invasion. Newsweek covered it quite well. Thousands of Pashtuns murdered in cold blood by Northern Alliance - some which didnt even have links or affinity with the talebs

and you want to tell me they had integrity and all; if that were the case then why has NA produced a lot of rogues who end up getting bribed and sending their arms to the talebs themselves (happened on numerous occasions)




edit: just noticed you were banned.....when time-out ends, i look forward to your reply

 

[Tshering22]

India is providing development assistance to Afghanistan but it has similar serious issues troubling at home as well. Many of the same things that Afghanistan needs, from infrastructure to education, India is having trouble providing for many of her citizens, even without the regular threat of attacks from the Taliban.

Not really. The engineering projects are going on smoothly without Taliban attacks because lets face it; our engineers are taught how to construct roads, infrastructure, rail, electrical equipment etc; not to make bombs and make AKs.

They're civilans untrained in combat and if Taliban or your military really thinks that they're doing something manly by shooting and attacking these civilians along with dozens of innocent Afghan civilians, then that shows what level your military has reduced to in terms of combat capability.

India’s state-run power industry struggles to get enough fuel thanks to mismanagement and bureaucracy, even its brightest youth can’t land a spot at a good university and almost a half of its citizens live in destitute poverty, with hundreds of millions malnourished. The current central government is grappling with a growing deficit, shrinking economic growth and an increasingly dissatisfied voter base.

You clearly are stuck in 90s. Wake up. This is 2012.

They are building the Afghan Assembly building. If it is for a democracy like India, which is soaked in blood for her own people, God help Afghanistan.

It is thousand times better than the wonderful pious state you managed to create and still not be at peace with yourselves despite 62 years of independence.

The ball is in your court; whether you want to stop this madness, realize your mistakes and regain support and respect of the countries with whom you're at odds (other than us) or continue on this destructive path.

 

[Abingdonboy]

India is providing development assistance to Afghanistan but it has similar serious issues troubling at home as well. Many of the same things that Afghanistan needs, from infrastructure to education, India is having trouble providing for many of her citizens, even without the regular threat of attacks from the Taliban.

India’s state-run power industry struggles to get enough fuel thanks to mismanagement and bureaucracy, even its brightest youth can’t land a spot at a good university and almost a half of its citizens live in destitute poverty, with hundreds of millions malnourished. The current central government is grappling with a growing deficit, shrinking economic growth and an increasingly dissatisfied voter base.

It’s no surprise that India’s Afghanistan assistance is even greeted with some skepticism in Afghanistan as well as in the world.
As someone said, “In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”

There are 3-4 major projects that India had started in Afghanistan. Zaranj – Dilaram Road, connecting the Chahbahar port in Iran. This road is hardly used for moving supplies etc into Afghanistan. The Iranians have connected Chahbahar port to another city in Iran and connected it to Afghanistan via recently constructed bridge. Even inside Afghanistan, the road is under Taliban control and since US vacated Nimroz, this road has become useless for the Indians and others.

The second was Salma Dam project. It was built on a river flowing into Iran and was supposed to irrigate 75000 hectares of land in Afghanistan. However, since Iran protested as it would reduce the water flow into Iran and also due to security problems, the work on the project has been stopped. India has also stopped to provide further funding for the project.

They are building the Afghan Assembly building. If it is for a democracy like India, which is soaked in blood for her own people, God help Afghanistan.

Then the project to provide electricity from CARs for Kabul. We will have more electricity in Kabul when and if all, this line reaches Kabul.

What more do you want to show for your assistance to Afghanistan. Yes they do watch Indian films and so do people in Pakistan. I don’t think there is any harm in watching Indian women dancing, is there !

Well done you can quote an article:

Can India 'Fix' Afghanistan? - NYTimes.com

If you're going to do this at least accredit the source instead of trying to make yourself look smart.


+ btw India is looking to spend in excess of $1 TN on infrastructure in the next 5 years and before you criticise India maybe you should sort out your own country first.

 

[SamantK]

Ahhh this is going to take a while !

The Talibani ideology is more or less embedded in those areas for no insurgency can survive without the people's supprot ! The Northern Alliance, Dostum, Hikmatyar, Omar & about a dozen other warlords were just as regressive as the oft-maligned one of them - Omar.

Pakistan neither supported the Taliban because we & them were ideologically on the same page nor because we were looking to find foot soldiers to send to Kashmir. We supported them because at the end of the war when the International Community & in particular the US, who had rooted for the same Mujahideen till their throats started bleeding, turned their back on both Pakistan & Afghanistan. When what was required was for the International Community to engage in 'Nation Building' to ensure that generations of Afghans & Pakistani Pashtuns who'd known nothing but war, death, destruction & the rhetoric that goes with it are absorbed back into the mainstream society as constructive individuals through education, counseling & economic opportunities, were left to fend for themselves ! In that chaos the Mujahideen of yesterday became the personal armies of one warlord or another till Afghanistan was drenched in more blood than it probably was during the Soviet occupation. The influx of refugees into Pakistan increased even further & a country that had held them for a decade & now was faced with crippling sanctions because our use ran out was to provide a home for anywhere between 4-5 million Afghans many of whom were so drastically effected by the war that calling them a 'burden' on our economy & our community would be an understatement. In that vacuum an opportunity was seen - a faction out of the same blood thirsty, vengeful factions arose one that was amenable to Pakistan, wanted to go back to Afghanistan & held the promise to bring some semblance of stability to an otherwise self-imploding Afghanistan; in short they were the best amongst a very...very bad deck of cards. We used it & it worked for a time before events unfolded as such that one of their guests rammed a foOking plane in the World Trade Centre. We didn't ask for this...we just improvised to make the best of a really foOked up situation.

Right now we fear a repeat of more of the same happening again ! I wish it doesn't...I wish that you guys, Sher & others are right but the same optimism doesn't permeate us. Afghanistan may yet descend into warlordism again & both of our countries will suffer. The problem is further compounded by the Afghan Taliban not being on the best of terms with us ! The US leaves in 2014 like it did ever so many summers before...what becomes of us ? Why do we stir up a hornet's nest when we know that we're going to loose big time ! So for now its neither ideological convergence nor a master-slave relationship that drives us but pure 'expedience' - The Taliban aren't going to die out...the post-withdrawal Afghanistan isn't going to be progressive, blood-less & stable & we're still stuck with them on the West !

But of course all of this is 'our narrative' & it is neither the mainstream one nor what you guys usually throw at us ! So Ciao...!

It's not your narrative which bothers me, it's the fact that in your argument the stress is always on the fooked up situations which Pakistan had to deal with rather than the conducive atmosphere inside Pakistan which actually create those fooked up situations.. Anyways that's how countries other than US and especially how India sees it, after all the resulting shenanigans of Pakistani administration created the worst insurgency the World has seen and which India lives with every day..

And of course about all this why should Pakistan give a rat's *** to what India has to face or what Afghanistan wanted, did that ever really matter?

 

[peep]

Well done you can quote an article:

Can India 'Fix' Afghanistan? - NYTimes.com

If you're going to do this at least accredit the source instead of trying to make yourself look smart.


+ btw India is looking to spend in excess of $1 TN on infrastructure in the next 5 years and before you criticise India maybe you should sort out your own country first.

wait ! what ? That fellow plagiarized the entire article without quoting the source ? Not amazes me a bit since he is a pakistani..

 

[ironman1]

joke of the century! or was it sarcasm?

perhaps you're unfamiliar with what was going on just after the '01 invasion. Newsweek covered it quite well. Thousands of Pashtuns murdered in cold blood by Northern Alliance - some which didnt even have links or affinity with the talebs

and you want to tell me they had integrity and all; if that were the case then why has NA produced a lot of rogues who end up getting bribed and sending their arms to the talebs themselves (happened on numerous occasions)




edit: just noticed you were banned.....when time-out ends, i look forward to your reply

you know i have heard it many times "innocent murdered" , "children murdered", except i do not understand that how somebody holding a gun with a pointy end at you from which bullet comes out can be considered innocent whether he is 14 yrs old or 40. if somebody knows how to take a life, he is not innocent.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Well, After Nato Exist , India can /will bring IRAN, Russia, China and other neighbouring counties in Afghanistan, which will reduce the PAK chances/influence all together.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

We are giving them roads, hospitals, schools, jobs, education - most basic things that were expected to be provided by you. By providing such basic things we are giving afghan people hope and aspirations. Your best gift to Afghanistan was taliban in which you people often take pride.

U r right.. We are giving them nearly everything.. In future even food aid will flow !! But how will it reach the people is the question?
I have to agree with some of pakistanis here!! While people in cities like india, because they are aware of the help we have provided, plus various Indian drama shows on tv which have become very popular among afghans !!
But the real population lies in rural areas, where there is no electricity nor any news !! I doubt our assistance ever reached them, nor they even heard about it !! Plus the govt officials are corrupt !! India have to do more than pulling the socks, to make the economic prosperity reach nook and corner of afghanistan... We should build more power plants, radio stations , tv stations, transport etc