US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[VelocuR]

Great news, Pakistan Army didn't go to North Waziristan for the sake of West.

Interesting they no longer demand it but more attacks focus on Pakistan Army now.

 

[foxbat]

The air-strikes were certainly within Pakistani borders.

There is, as of right now, not a single credible casualty figure from the alleged 'highly accurate machine gun fire and mortar rounds fired at US and Afghan forces' that 'forced them to retaliate in self-defence'.

Airstrikes came later, so thats irrelevant. And it would be a little foolish to wait for casualties before responding to the attack.. No?

 

[All-Green]

Airstrikes came later, so thats irrelevant. And it would be a little foolish to wait for casualties before responding to the attack.. No?

Certainly a lot less foolish than operating along the border without informing an ally as per SOP and then calling an airstrike on their posts despite a justified Pakistani engagement of what could have been a terrorist horde.

 

[Awesome]

What lies behind such asymmetry is 100 years of economic progress. If only Pakistan had not lost sight of the importance of the economy for the last 50 years, things might have been quite different.

Which wouldn't have happened if we didn't have so many America fascinated Pakistanis who see subservience to America acceptable for petty gains.

 

[Developereo]

Popular pressure is no match for international pressure, particularly economic. It would be unfair to judge IK on this one measure only. He may be able to deliver on the rest of his promises if he sees the sense to compromise on the blockade issue.

"International pressure" is orchestrated by Western media, which is but an appendage of Western governments.

American agenda in the region is squarely against Pakistan's long term interests. Either we make a stand now, or we will die a slow death once America's geopolitical pieces are in place.

Where did Imran Khan come into this? He is not even in power. If Zardari orders the routes to be opened and Military complies, what can Imran Khan do? He is not yet an elected representative.

The first paragraph in my post already answers your question.

 

[wmdisinfo]

Good USA Govt is such a dumb *** what we knew in 26 nov 2011 they came to know about it now.i used to wonder why they didnt find WMD in iraq.CIA is a cursed intelligence agency

---------- Post added at 07:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

why i cant see any soliders from BEGHAIRAT BRIGADE here?

 

[lem34]

And thats exactly why the routes will open

you completly missed the point accepting american diktat and reopening would be falling in line and one of their aims is to weaken PA

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------

Why there is so much pressure to open a route with 30% supplies ? or is it 30% only, a propaganda done to tell US senators to agree on attack on Pakistan.

cos their press are liars theey need pakistani routes more than they care to admit

---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------

Where did Imran Khan come into this? He is not even in power. If Zardari orders the routes to be opened and Military complies, what can Imran Khan do? He is not yet an elected representative.

when people like hazare in india launch rallies etc they are admired imran should lead a civil disobedience movement if zardari and co cave in

---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 AM ----------

And has it been established that the NATO and Afghan forces were indeed within Pakistani borders?

after 20 pages of discussion on this matter on this thread alone you have to ask that???

---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 AM ----------

Now lets see pakistan response. What else it can do? USA and NATO knows pakistan will stop supply.

dont need to do anything just sit tight.

 

[VCheng]

And US and NATO claim that they don't need the Pakistani route, so good riddance to them ... both sides can live happily on that count.

But can this issue be seen independent of the bigger picture, specially Pakistan trade and its place in the comity of nations as a nuclear power?

Which wouldn't have happened if we didn't have so many America fascinated Pakistanis who see subservience to America acceptable for petty gains.

So you'd rather blame a few hundred thousand expats rather than the tens upon tens of millions of vociferous patriots? How convenient.

"International pressure" is orchestrated by Western media, which is but an appendage of Western governments.

American agenda in the region is squarely against Pakistan's long term interests. Either we make a stand now, or we will die a slow death once America's geopolitical pieces are in place......................

I am referring to primarily economic pressures, such as bilateral trade, and IMF loans, not just the diplomatic or media pressures. To make a stand against these takes years of preparation which is sadly lacking at present, and would likely result in social upheaval.

The pieces you refer to have been moving into place for nearly a decade now; they are in place already.

 

[Jango]

I just think it rather coincidental that the Defence Ministry made that comment when it came to the SC asking it about the testimony of the Military to the SC on the Memo issue ...

Kayani and Pasha would have no issue with passing their testimony through the MoD - what difference would it make? The only reason this has become an issue is because the PPP has decided that they want to keep the Memo investigation out of the hands of the court and in a 'parliamentary committee' where they can 'blackmail' the opposition through 'reopening corruption cases' and/or stall the process. As part of that whole process, the PPP has decided that the President will not testify to the court, and the PPP probably did not want Pasha and Kayani testifying either, and therefore the two bypassed the MoD, resulting in the current tantrums by the PPP.

The PPP is now desperately trying hard to get itself a sorry image, by getting the feelings of the people that it is being involved in a strategy to derail the government by the Army. Which is absolute BS. I can see the Army having a tough, and opposite stance to the government on this issue, and many more.

 

[LeGenD]

This is in contradiction to what the Americans have been claiming publicly i.e. only 30% of Nato supplies come through Pakistan. Consequently, it should not affect Nato operations in Afghanistan if the border remains closed. Pakistan should not open the border and let Nato bring in 100% of nato supplies through Russia, since the supplies thru Pakistan is insignificant according to the Nato declarations.

Nato has taken just the step 1 which is admission of its culpability.

Step 2 , Nato Commander and President Obama should officially appologize to the Pakistani Nation and pay severe raparations to the Martyrs families.

Step 3, cease the Occupation of Afghanistan immediatly and vacate Afghanistan.

The border with Afghanistan should be permanently sealed till the Nato forces withdraw from Afghanistan.

It is easy to make these statements on the web.

US/NATO have responsibility in Afghanistan and they need to set things right before they leave it. Stable Afghanistan is good for the WORLD. No one can force them out.

However, Pakistan can choose to leave WOT.

 

[Xeric]

Given the proximity of Pakistani forces along the border, the only way this holds any meaning is if a significantly large 'no-fly zone buffer' is created along the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Otherwise, given the range of the weapons on US air assets, US AC wont have to violate or be on a 'trajectory to violate' to be able to target Pakistani territory and positions.

You are right. But what you refer to as a 'buffer zone' is known as 'No Man's Land' in tactical language. Typically a NML exists between to belligerents are engaged in a fighting/defence on common borders, in this case, we or the ANA/NATO dont consider each other enemies, still designating the area a buffer zone/NML wont hurt. That's the least they can do now to compensate for their grave mistake of Nov 26. Point to be noted is that not only a no fly zone is created but a 'no operation zone' is also created there in tandem.

 

[Jango]

It is easy to make these statements on the web.

US/NATO have responsibility in Afghanistan and they need to set things right before they leave it. Stable Afghanistan is good for the WORLD. No one can force them out.

However, Pakistan can choose to leave WOT.

right now, you cannot choose to leave it just like that.

 

[Developereo]

I am referring to primarily economic pressures, such as bilateral trade, and IMF loans, not just the diplomatic or media pressures.

Yes, absolutely, I was also referring to the economic blackmail. But the situation is not as simple. America can not afford to completely alienate Pakistan and drive it straight into the Chinese camp. Pakistan's leverage is underestimated. Full closure of NATO supplies (road/air) will make the US dependent on Putin 100%. That's just the tip of the iceberg -- the real fun will start when the ramifications of that dependence impact America's relations with Europe -- especially eastern Europe.

The Americans would much rather deal with Pakistan than Putin. Nobody has any illusions about that choice.

To make a stand against these takes years of preparation which is sadly lacking at present

Story of Pakistan.

The pieces you refer to have been moving into place for nearly a decade now; they are in place already.

The constant American tantrums and ongoing demonization of PA/ISI proves that American chess pieces are decidedly out of kilter. Even after ten years of American tutelage, their chaudhry India has failed to establish its dominance in Afghanistan or to weaken Pakistan's influence. The CARs are still very much in Russia's camp and Chinese influence is growing. Afghanistan remains ethnically divided and hostile to American presence - their two-timing puppet Karzai is little more than mayor of Kabul.

 

[Jango]

You are right. But what you refer to as a 'buffer zone' is known as 'No Man's Land' in tactical language. Typically a NML exists between to belligerents are engaged in a fighting/defence on common borders, in this case, we or the ANA/NATO dont consider each other enemies, still designating the area a buffer zone/NML wont hurt. That's the least they can do now to compensate for their grave mistake of Nov 26. Point to be noted is that not only a no fly zone is created but a 'no operation zone' is also created there in tandem.

A buffer zone can then also be used to sandwich the running insurgents.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

Yes, absolutely, I was also referring to the economic blackmail. But the situation is not as simple. America can not afford to completely alienate Pakistan and drive it straight into the Chinese camp. Pakistan's leverage is underestimated. Full closure of NATO supplies (road/air) will make the US dependent on Putin 100%. That's just the tip of the iceberg -- the real fun will start when the ramifications of that dependence impact America's relations with Europe -- especially eastern Europe.

The Missile defence shield in Europe also contributes to making things difficult for the US-Russia relations.

 

[foxbat]

Just one thought on the title of the thread.. If its murder, then its not a question of fault since fault are generally for mistakes.. And if its a mistake, then murder is not not the right word for it..