US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe
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Patriot
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Sir you are being too kind - **** NATO and i hope their lackeys also die a miserable death specially those who suck up for them on this forum.bloody bastard... sorry guys i dont have more suitable words for NATO and US...
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All-Green
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Even if Pakistan Army fired first (not at all confirmed to me), it had a complete right to do so since it was not informed of the night operation.
You cannot sit pretty and not act if you are manning a post in a hostile area where delayed reaction can mean instant death.
There was no justification for this attack by US forces and their Afghan allies, when they were going in without prior notice!
They should have pulled back.
To think that they would not have information about the Pakistani posts in the area despite planning a night raid on "militants" is as laughable an excuse as any, unbelievable.
Even enemies have more info about each other.
India and Pakistan know each others posts on the border like the back of their hand, can we expect that US forces are incapable of this even when they already have the data of the posts.
Prior to operation they would have consulted the maps at least!
It was shameless when we consider the manner in which information was relayed to Pakistan and attack was continued despite lack of accuracy of the position data shared with Pakistan and no prior information sharing with Pakistan regarding the night raid.
It was Pakistani lives at stake and they clearly showed their contempt for Pakistani lives.
Pakistan should not reopen the supply route, that is the least we can do for now.
You cannot sit pretty and not act if you are manning a post in a hostile area where delayed reaction can mean instant death.
There was no justification for this attack by US forces and their Afghan allies, when they were going in without prior notice!
They should have pulled back.
To think that they would not have information about the Pakistani posts in the area despite planning a night raid on "militants" is as laughable an excuse as any, unbelievable.
Even enemies have more info about each other.
India and Pakistan know each others posts on the border like the back of their hand, can we expect that US forces are incapable of this even when they already have the data of the posts.
Prior to operation they would have consulted the maps at least!
It was shameless when we consider the manner in which information was relayed to Pakistan and attack was continued despite lack of accuracy of the position data shared with Pakistan and no prior information sharing with Pakistan regarding the night raid.
It was Pakistani lives at stake and they clearly showed their contempt for Pakistani lives.
Pakistan should not reopen the supply route, that is the least we can do for now.
Patriot
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We can do a lot more sir - At least take out couple dozen Afghans ( I mean who really care about Afghans lives?)and later on take out Americans (Like Iranians did after attack on Their civil airline) when they least expect it.
GUNNER
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Air support was only called in afterward. The night patrol was on foot.
Sugarcane
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According to your beloved western media - Pakistani's first fired on ANA & NATO ground forces and i don't think they have choppers that can walk as well.
Patriot
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Awesome
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There is no explanation of why they kept on attacking... Moreover there was nothing left of the post to identify who fired first.
GUNNER
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Well...as expected... The DOD defends itself...
DOD investigation into airstrike that killed 24 Pakistanis finds U.S. forces acted in self defense - CNN.com
DOD investigation into airstrike that killed 24 Pakistanis finds U.S. forces acted in self defense
(CNN) -- An investigation into a November airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani troops has found U.S. forces acted in self defense, though poor coordination between the two militaries played a significant factor, according to a Department of Defense statement released early Thursday.
The finding is likely to further erode relations between the United States and Pakistan, which have steadily declined since a secret raid by American commandos that killed Osama bin Laden.
Pakistan's military has repeatedly insisted the November 26 airstrike near the Afghan border was deliberate, and the Pakistani government ordered the American military to vacate an air base used to launch drone strikes.
"The investigating officer found that U.S. forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon," the Department of Defense said in a statement posted on its web site.
"He also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials."
The investigation, though, also found there was "inadequate coordination" by U.S. and Pakistani military officials operating at a border coordination center, the statement said.
Among the coordination issues identified in the investigation was a reliance by NATO forces on "incorrect mapping information shared with a Pakistani liaison officer, it said.
"This, coupled with other gaps in information about the activities and placement of units from both sides, contributed to the tragic result," the statement said.
The Defense Department said the findings of the investigation have been shared with the Pakistani and Afghan governments as well as key NATO leadership.
The Defense Department statement said the focus now is to learn from mistakes.
"More critically, we must work to improve the level of trust between our two countries. We cannot operate effectively on the border -- or in other parts of our relationship -- without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. We earnestly hope the Pakistani military will join us in bridging that gap," the statement said.
In an effort to preempt the results of the investigation, the Pakistani Embassy in Washington last week invited reporters for a detailed briefing on the incident.
The Pakistani officials at the briefing argued that well-established operating procedures and an intricate system for operational information sharing were deliberately ignored, which led to the tragic incident.
American officials have told CNN that U.S. forces checked first with their Pakistani counterparts before launching the strike.
Before calling in airstrikes, the U.S. forces checked with a Pakistani liaison team. They were not seeking permission -- because the airstrikes were described as a matter of self defense -- but were making sure Pakistani troops weren't in what was called a poorly marked border area, the officials said.
After that consultation, the U.S. forces believed there were no Pakistani forces nearby, which turned out not to be true.
DOD investigation into airstrike that killed 24 Pakistanis finds U.S. forces acted in self defense - CNN.com
DOD investigation into airstrike that killed 24 Pakistanis finds U.S. forces acted in self defense
(CNN) -- An investigation into a November airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani troops has found U.S. forces acted in self defense, though poor coordination between the two militaries played a significant factor, according to a Department of Defense statement released early Thursday.
The finding is likely to further erode relations between the United States and Pakistan, which have steadily declined since a secret raid by American commandos that killed Osama bin Laden.
Pakistan's military has repeatedly insisted the November 26 airstrike near the Afghan border was deliberate, and the Pakistani government ordered the American military to vacate an air base used to launch drone strikes.
"The investigating officer found that U.S. forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon," the Department of Defense said in a statement posted on its web site.
"He also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials."
The investigation, though, also found there was "inadequate coordination" by U.S. and Pakistani military officials operating at a border coordination center, the statement said.
Among the coordination issues identified in the investigation was a reliance by NATO forces on "incorrect mapping information shared with a Pakistani liaison officer, it said.
"This, coupled with other gaps in information about the activities and placement of units from both sides, contributed to the tragic result," the statement said.
The Defense Department said the findings of the investigation have been shared with the Pakistani and Afghan governments as well as key NATO leadership.
The Defense Department statement said the focus now is to learn from mistakes.
"More critically, we must work to improve the level of trust between our two countries. We cannot operate effectively on the border -- or in other parts of our relationship -- without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. We earnestly hope the Pakistani military will join us in bridging that gap," the statement said.
In an effort to preempt the results of the investigation, the Pakistani Embassy in Washington last week invited reporters for a detailed briefing on the incident.
The Pakistani officials at the briefing argued that well-established operating procedures and an intricate system for operational information sharing were deliberately ignored, which led to the tragic incident.
American officials have told CNN that U.S. forces checked first with their Pakistani counterparts before launching the strike.
Before calling in airstrikes, the U.S. forces checked with a Pakistani liaison team. They were not seeking permission -- because the airstrikes were described as a matter of self defense -- but were making sure Pakistani troops weren't in what was called a poorly marked border area, the officials said.
After that consultation, the U.S. forces believed there were no Pakistani forces nearby, which turned out not to be true.
WTF, you did raid inside pakistan without even telling PA. You attacking different check posts around the boarder. You worked with IA instead PA, and yet expect we need to work on improving the trust?
You guyz don't know the meaning of this word, so STFU
All-Green
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Please take into account the casualty list of the uber cool US special forces vs our forces.
It means that even if we fired, it was not a case of dozens of Rambos being killed which demanded a hot blooded reaction from them.
They should have pulled back!
Do note that we had zero information on any US operation in the area, they were night time intruders which complicates it even more since it is pet time of TTP to jump on our posts in order to slaughter our soldiers.
Unlike their ultra high tech night time vision which is quite impressive, we do not have a great range and resolution to clearly assess who the intruder is at range of engagement. I am not even sure what night vision device we had on that post.
It would have been really impossible for our soldiers to tell who it was till the aircraft and helos started raining death on them...which they sadly did!
On the other hand our post locations are already with NATO/ISAF as part of information sharing.
Even without information sharing, there is no way in hell they would plan a raid along the border and not study our positions, even a 2nd Lt in Pakistan or Indian Army would study the operational area in a much more professional manner...unless ofcourse it was a deliberate provocation of our posts...which i believe is the case here.
They knew who they were attacking, no way in hell i am buying the BS that they did not know.
They would have had the exact coordinates in their system and when time came to pass information to our command, they were miles off the real coordinates...this is all deliberate and somewhere some rascal is responsible for planning this and maybe even getting a laugh out of it.
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