US report on Chinese military modernisation.

[fatman17]

US report on Chinese military modernisation.

 

[fatman17]

Continues

 

[fatman17]

Continues

 

[fatman17]

End

 

[Beast]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chinas-military-expansion-will-test-the-biden-administration/2020/12/03/9f05e92a-35a7-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

Davidson confirmed, for the first time from the U.S. government side, that China’s People’s Liberation Army has successfully tested an anti-ship ballistic missile against a moving ship. This was done as part of the PLA’s massive joint military exercises, which have been ongoing since the summer. These are often called “aircraft carrier killer” missiles, because they could threaten the United States’ most significant naval assets from long distances.

Who still dare ASBM capabilities? Or still claim its fluke, fake ballistic missile that can never hit a moving ship.

@gambit? Maybe the US admiral take a huge bribe from PLA and spew yellow peril nonsense. No such thing happened. The US admiral is just lying like Pompeo.

Hope it can make u sleep better with this delusion!

 

[Titanium100]

How are they getting access to all of this info or is it public info.. By the way you can take out these aircraft carrier ships without missiles but with under water drone mines

 

[IblinI]

How are they getting access to all of this info or is it public info.. By the way you can take out these aircraft carrier ships without missiles but with under water drone mines

I don't see any latest projects development, this is actually at least five years old public info which you can found all from Chinese defense forum like cjdby.

 

[gambit]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chinas-military-expansion-will-test-the-biden-administration/2020/12/03/9f05e92a-35a7-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

Davidson confirmed, for the first time from the U.S. government side, that China’s People’s Liberation Army has successfully tested an anti-ship ballistic missile against a moving ship. This was done as part of the PLA’s massive joint military exercises, which have been ongoing since the summer. These are often called “aircraft carrier killer” missiles, because they could threaten the United States’ most significant naval assets from long distances.

Who still dare ASBM capabilities? Or still claim its fluke, fake ballistic missile that can never hit a moving ship.

@gambit? Maybe the US admiral take a huge bribe from PLA and spew yellow peril nonsense. No such thing happened. The US admiral is just lying like Pompeo.

Hope it can make u sleep better with this delusion!

I never said it could not be done. What I have been saying all this time we have to wait until there is confirmation from independent source(s) and that mean non-China. So if our admiral said it is true, then am willing to consider. So now the next step is to see if this 'carrier killer' can withstand countermeasures. Can it?

 

[Beast]

I never said it could not be done. What I have been saying all this time we have to wait until there is confirmation from independent source(s) and that mean non-China. So if our admiral said it is true, then am willing to consider. So now the next step is to see if this 'carrier killer' can withstand countermeasures. Can it?

More like USN need to prove it can intercept multiple ASBM attack instead of the usual one warhead interception. 12 ASBM fired is still cheaper compare to an AB destroyer and not to mention maybe 24 ASBM attacking a single CVN.

 

[gambit]

More like USN need to prove it can intercept multiple ASBM attack instead of the usual one warhead interception. 12 ASBM fired is still cheaper compare to an AB destroyer and not to mention maybe 24 ASBM attacking a single CVN.

Intercept? Countermeasures have PROVEN to be effective against multiple attackers. Depending on the countermeasure method, countermeasures have PROVEN to be persistent in the time domain over incoming attackers. A single ship can create an EM field of several hundreds square meters that can remain over minutes. Same for IR countermeasures.

The claim is that the DF-21 have hit a moving target. Fair enough. But what are the details of that test?

A moving target can assist the descending warhead to see if the warhead's flight control system can track a detected target. That 'detection' can be in the form of active radio signals simulating a radar return. There is nothing wrong with this rigged test. It is incremental towards the goal of zero assist, meaning the warhead must -- on its own -- detect a target, track it, predict the target's next coordinates, and create a collision point.

The next rigged test involve inclement weather. The US military have proven ourselves to be masters at fighting at night and in bad weather. The PLA have not and we all know it. Can the DF-21 find a moving target in bad weather PLUS fighting against countermeasures?

 

[Figaro]

How are they getting access to all of this info or is it public info.. By the way you can take out these aircraft carrier ships without missiles but with under water drone mines

Someone at the DoD did an internet deep dive ... all this stuff is OSINT that anybody on the web has access to.

 

[gambit]

12 ASBM fired is still cheaper compare to an AB destroyer and not to mention maybe 24 ASBM attacking a single CVN.

So am going to insert harsh reality into your dream...

How is China going to attack a single ship? The initial response is usually 'High accuracy, High precision' (HA/HP). And it would be WRONG. Expensively wrong.

If you want to utterly destroy a fixed target, then HA/HP is correct. Of course, you can be like artillery and launch all missiles to land at the same time.

Now, let us change the target to a train. The train is a moving target but its dynamic physical locations are predictable because of the tracks it requires in order to move. So against this moving target, you will still employ HA/HP but you would launch your missiles SEQUENTIALLY. If the first missile is successful, then the other missiles will be wasted but it would be written off as a necessary cost of the mission.

A ship is a moving target like a train but unlike the train, the ship can change its physical locations AT WILL. The train cannot. Being at will mean unpredictability in terms of time and space, so employing HA/HP would increase the odds of mission failure to unacceptable level. What is more appropriate is 'High accuracy, Low precision' (HA/LP). You want to blanket the area either all missiles at the same time or sequentially and HOPE that at least one missile will be successful.

Did I breach any OPSEC by saying this in public forum? No, I did not. We Air Force guys knew this since the 1940s.

We missed the Hiryu at MIdway.

A great deal of science went into studying how to hit a moving ship even as large as an aircraft carrier and the scenarios so far have NOT been in favor of the ballistic attacker. That is why the US decided to develop the cruise missile method -- for now.

This is the difference between you guys and I: I focused on the technicals while you got blinded by the blings.

 

[gambit]

On radar, there is no telling the tanker from the aircraft carrier...

That means a repurposed tanker can seduce a salvo of DF-21s.

We can even mod the tanker to produce the necessary IR signatures of a busy aircraft carrier deck.

 

[Ziggy1977]

the blue water battle is still lopsided.

China
2 Aircraft Carriers (CV) 58 J15 Fighter Jets, 10 ASW, 10 AEW, 8 MRH
1 Landing Helicopter Dock (Yushen Class LHD) 60 Helicopters

1 Guided Missile Cruiser (Renhai class CGHM) 112 YJ18 AShM VLS range 360 KM
4 Guided Missile Destroyers (Sovremenny Class DDGHM) 32 3M80E AShM launchers range 250 KM
1 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luhai Class DDGHM) 8 YJ12A AShM Launchers range 325 KM
4 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luhu & Luyang Class DDGHM) 64 YJ83 AShM Launchers range 190 KM
6 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luyang II Class DDGHM) 48 YJ62 AShM Launchers range 400 KM
15 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luyang III Class DDGHM) 960 YJ18 VLS range 360 KM
2 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luzhou Class DDGM) 8 YJ83 AShM Launchers range 190 KM
40 Guided Missile Frigates (JiangKai & Jiangwei Class FFGHM) 320 YJ83 AShM Launchers range 190 KM
2 Guided Missile Frigates (Luda IV Class FFGM) 16 YJ83 AShM Launchers range 190 KM
3 Guided Missile Frigates (Jainghu I Class FFG) 12 HY2 AShM Launchers range 200 KM
7 Guided Missile Frigates (Jainghu IM & III Class FFG) 56 YJ83 AShM Launchers range 190 KM

8 Landing Transportation Docks (Yuzhao Class LPD) 48 Helicopters

6 Nuclear Powered Attack Submarines (Stang I & II Class SSN)
3 Nuclear Powered Attack Submarines (Hans Class SSN) in reserve old.
12 Diesel Powered Attack Submarines (Kilo Class SSK)
6 Diesel Powered Attack Submarines (Ming Class SSK) plus 8 more in reserve.
12 Diesel Powered Attack Submarines (Song Class SSK)
18 Diesel Powered Attack Submarines (Yuan Class SSK)

total
106 Ships
54 Submarines
58 J15 Fighter Jets (Capable)
136 Helicopters
1756 anti Ship Missile Launchers with ranges from 190 to 400 KM.

they can convert the LHD & LPDs to carrier Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW) & Aerial Early Warning (AEW) Helicopters instead of Attack Helicopters. this would greatly enhance their AEWC2 & Anti Sub capabilities.

China currently doesn't have a huge number of (AEW) or ASW Helicopters. even worst. they don't have trained personnel to man them either. nor any seaborne electronic Warfare (EW) or Aerial Early Warning Command & Control (AEWC2) Planes.


coming into service soon
7 Guided Missile Cruiser (Renhai class CGHM) 784 YJ18 AShM VLS range 360 KM
10 Guided Missile Destroyers (Luyang III Class DDGHM) 640 YJ18 VLS range 360 KM
2 Landing Helicopter Dock (Yushen Class LHD) 120 Helicopters


vs the US Naval & Marine Forces

1 Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier (Ford Class CVN) 36 F18E/F, 10 F18C/D, 5 EW, 4 AEWC2 planes, 8 ASW & 11 MRH
8 Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carriers (Nimitz Class CVN) 24 F35C, 348 F18E/F, 40 EW, 34 AEWC2, 64 ASW & 88 MRH
2 Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carriers (Nimitz Class CVN) 84 F18C/D, 10 EW, 8 AEWC2 Planes, 18 ASW & 22 MRH

2 Landing Helicopter Assault (America Class LHA) 40 F35B, 4 ASW, 8 MRH
7 Landing Helicopter Docks (Wasp Class LHD) 64 F35B, 64 AV-8B, 14 ASW, 28 MRH
22 Guided Missile Cruiser (Ticonderoga Class CGHM) 176 Harpoon AShM Launchers range 310 KM
2 Guided Missile Cruiser (Zumwalt Class CGHM)
40 Guided Missile Destroyers (Arleigh Burke Class DDGHM)
28 Guided Missile Destroyers (Arleigh Burke Class DDGM) 224 Harpoon AShM Launchers range 310 KM
10 Guided Missile Frigates (Freedom Class FFGHM) 80 NSM AShM Range 555 KM
11 Guided Missile Frigates (Independence Class FFGHM) 88 NSM AShM Range 555 KM
11 Landing Transportation Docks (San Antonio Class LPD) 22 ASW Helicopters
4 Landing Ship Docks (Harpers Ferry Class LSD) 8 ASW Helicopters
8 Landing Ship Docks (Whidbey Class LSD) 16 ASW Helicopters

19 Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Submarines (Virginia Class SSGN)
28 Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Submarines (Los Angles Class SSGN)
4 Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Submarines (Ohio Class SSGN)
3 Nuclear Powered Attack Submarines (Seawolf Class SSN)

Totals
156 Ships
54 Submarines

104 F35B (Advance)
24 F35C (Advance)
384 F18E/F (Modern)
94 F18C/D (Capable)
606 Total Fighter Jets

64 AV-8B anti Ship Role
55 EAF18G EW role
46 AEWC2 Planes
154 ASW Helicopters
121 Helicopters

568 AShM Launchers ranges from 350 to 555 KM

coming to service soon
1 Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier (Ford Class CVN)
1 Landing Transportation Docks (San Antonio Class LPD)
3 Guided Missile Destroyers (Arleigh Burke Class DDGHM)
1 Guided Missile Cruiser (Zumwalt Class CGHM)
3 Guided Missile Frigates (Freedom Class FFGHM)
2 Guided Missile Frigates (Independence Class FFGHM)
1 Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Submarines (Virginia Class SSGN)

the Chinese Navy is the 2nd most powerful navy in the world. but it is limited to blue navy warfare vs smaller nations like Taiwan, ROK, Japan and any other nation on the planet. Against the USA. that role is reversed. It is a great Defensive force closer to shore with overlapping protection from coastal ships, ground and air anti ship forces. But out in the Blue waters on it own it's lack of AEWC2 and Carriers will means the USA Naval Forces would destroy them in a lopsided fight. also a lot of their Attack Submarines lack long ranges.


China's Military & Political Leadership understands it many strengths and weaknesses. they have achieved what i believe to be their short term goals.

dominate in the western coastal area.

their midterm goal being the dominate force in the mid Pacific is decades away if possible at all.

their long term dream. to be the most dominate navy in the world is far in the future. but it will depend on the US and failings of China's rivals not forming a defense pact against china.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China has the geography and manpower to build the world's biggest navy and there is nothing Americans can do to stop that unless they nuke Beijing and the rest of China.