US questions ISI-Taliban link

[Bhushan]

US questions ISI-Taliban link

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's statement on looking forward to a relation with India came after his meeting with John Kerry and Republican Senator Richard Lugar -- the two officials who are drafting an aid bill called the Kerry-Lugar bill for Pakistan.

However, in a further embarrasment for Zardari, the US now linked the ISI with the Taliban, questioning Pakistan on why the Taliban were allowed to flourish in the territory in the first place.

Lugar said, "We ask what is the relation between the ISI and the Taliban? We ask the question of why the Taliban exist and why have they become so powerful? We have asked do you want the US in your country."

Earlier, US President Obama had already stated that the US wouldn't give a blank cheque to Pakistan and that aid will be tied to progress in eliminating the Taliban from the country.

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[Bhushan]

Pakistan: Now or Never?

The United States has begun demanding rather publicly that Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence make a clean break of its ties with the Afghan Taliban to help stabilise the situation in Afghanistan.

But can you force a country to act against its self-interest, despite all all your leverage, asks Robert D. Kaplan in a piece for the Atlantic. And does it make sense for an intelligence agency to break off all contact with arguably the biggest player in the region?

Since President Barack Obama placed Pakistan at the centre of his strategy to fight the Afghan war, the debate over the ISI has gotten more open and more heated. Some Pakistani officials and experts with links to the establishment have taken exception to the United States openly painting the spy agency in enemy colours, accusing elements within it of supporting the Talibam.

Kaplan argues that Pakistan’s geography as well as a history of instability makes it almost impossible for it to cut ties to the radical Islamists. Pakistan and Afghanistan have a long and unruly border and that alone would make it necessary for security agencies to build a network of contacts with the principal players in Afghanistan.

On top of that, Pakistanis tend to see Afghanistan through the prism of the country’s unending conflict with India. “When they look to the west they envison an “islamisation” of Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries with which to face off against Hindu-dominated India to the east,” Kaplan writes.

So just as Israel will not scale back settlements in the occupied territories, frustrating U.S. peace efforts, or South Korea will from time to time extend an olive branch to North Korea, undermining U.S. efforts to contain the communist state, Pakistan, another one of America’s allies is not going to act against its core interest, he says. You can tell Pakistan to stop helping the Taliban plan and carry out operations, but you can’t tell them to cut links to the militant group altogether.

But isn’t Pakistan itself threatened by the Taliban? “Quetta Burns. Karachi on Edge. Islamabad on Alert” ran a headline on the popular blog All Things Pakistan. Author Adil Najam says he wouldn’t recommend reading Pakistani newspapers for the faint-hearted. It’s a perfect storm, and if this doesn’t threaten Pakistan’s core interest what does?

 

[white_pawn]

hey hi Bhushan, heard form you after long time.

Any way, see basically there are certain ppls in the agency, PA and GOP who have sympatric view towards taliban which is raising this question. Mostly these ppls say that taliban is fighting against US as they thing that US of western countries are against Islam, but due to thing are the some internal instablality happening.

As even you would be aware of this.

 

[Bill Longley]

US as usual is bull shiting

what the **** we have sacrificed more than 2200 troops and still they bark that our ISI helps talibs

i think US should reckon its failures and analyze their incompetance in afghanistan before accuseing Pakistan or ISI
btw its very cheap to blame ISI for own failures in afghanistan

plz read my analysis on

LOST IDENTITY: FIGHTING THE TALIBAN

 

[Bhushan]

hey hi Bhushan, heard form you after long time.

Any way, see basically there are certain ppls in the agency, PA and GOP who have sympathetic view towards taliban which is raising this question. Mostly these ppls say that taliban is fighting against US as they thing that US of western countries are against Islam, but due to thing are the some internal instablality happening.

As even you would be aware of this.

I am afraid that I differ with your views white_pawn. This is not sympathy, this is a planned strategy.

 

[Bhushan]

US as usual is bull shiting

what the **** we have sacrificed more than 2200 troops and still they bark that our ISI helps talibs

i think US should reckon its failures and analyze their incompetance in afghanistan before accuseing Pakistan or ISI
btw its very cheap to blame ISI for own failures in afghanistan

plz read my analysis on

LOST IDENTITY: FIGHTING THE TALIBAN

Spanish Report Says Pakistan Spy Agency Armed Taliban

MADRID, Spain — A report marked confidential and bearing the official seal of Spain's Defense Ministry charges that Pakistan's spy service was helping arm Taliban insurgents in 2005 for assassination plots against the Afghan government.

The report, which was obtained by Cadena Ser radio and posted on the station's Web site on Wednesday, also says Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency — or ISI — helped the Taliban procure roadside bombs.

It alleges that Pakistan may have provided training and intelligence to the Taliban in camps set up on Pakistani soil. The report says the Pakistani agency planned to have the Taliban use the explosives "to assassinate high-ranking officials."

The August 2005 document does not describe its sources. Cadena Ser did not say how it obtained the report.

Western intelligence agencies have long suspected that elements of Pakistan's spy service have aided the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan. But this report appears to be the first leaked to the media that spells out such a connection in writing.

A Pakistani official on Wednesday vehemently denied that any such link existed.

Chief Pakistani army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the Spanish report was "baseless, unfounded and part of a malicious, well-orchestrated propaganda campaign to malign the ISI."

"ISI is the first line of defense of Pakistan and certain quarters are attempting to weaken our national intelligence system," Abbas said, without elaborating.

In Spain, the Defense Ministry and the prime minister's office said they had no comment on the document.

Fernando Reinares, a terrorism analyst at the Elcano Royal Institute in Madrid and former chief counterterrorism adviser at Spain's Interior Ministry, said the document appeared to be an internal report intended for high-level officials. Spain has about 800 soldiers deployed in northwest Afghanistan.

The report says "it appears possible" that advanced training camps exist in Pakistan "where the Taliban receive training, help and intelligence from the ISI," and where they are also developing new improvised explosive devices. The report says the Taliban had also been receiving help from Al Qaeda.

Reinares said the report on the alleged ISI-Taliban link is in keeping with information from other Western spy agencies.

"The intelligence services have done nothing more then confirm a reality which has also been reported by other Western agencies," he told The Associated Press. Reinares said Spain has developed a strong military and police intelligence operation in Pakistan, particularly since the deadly terrorist attacks of March 11, 2004 on commuter trains in Madrid.

The ISI spy agency has helped kill or capture several top Al Qaeda leaders since 2001, but there are lingering doubts about its loyalty — not least because its agents helped build up the Taliban in the 1990s.

U.S. intelligence agencies suspect rogue elements may still be giving Taliban militants sensitive information to aid in their growing insurgency in Afghanistan, even though officially Pakistan is a U.S. ally in fighting terrorism.

Some analysts say elements in the spy agency may want to retain the Taliban as potentially helpful against longtime rival India and may believe that Pakistan's strategic interests are best served if Afghanistan remains a weak state.

India and Afghanistan — and reportedly the U.S. — suspect the ISI of involvement in the July 7 bombing outside India's Embassy in Kabul, which killed more than 60 people. Pakistan denies the allegations.

Pakistan's army chief this week named a general considered a hawk in the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban to head the ISI.

The Taliban has regularly used roadside bombs to attack U.S. troops and Afghan security forces since the beginning of the insurgency following the fall off the movement in 2001.

The explosives used have become increasingly powerful in the past year and can rip through an armored military vehicle and kill everyone inside.

 

[white_pawn]

I am afraid that I differ with our views white_pawn. This is not sympathy, this is a planned strategy.

Yup it may be or may not be who know whats true. Bcoz now everyone try and get what ever benefit they can gain from the on going conflict. They dont get a crap for any thing else but "Me, & Myself" that it.

 

[Bill Longley]

Spanish Report Says Pakistan Spy Agency Armed Taliban

MADRID, Spain — A report marked confidential and bearing the official seal of Spain's Defense Ministry charges that Pakistan's spy service was helping arm Taliban insurgents in 2005 for assassination plots against the Afghan government.

The report, which was obtained by Cadena Ser radio and posted on the station's Web site on Wednesday, also says Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency — or ISI — helped the Taliban procure roadside bombs.

It alleges that Pakistan may have provided training and intelligence to the Taliban in camps set up on Pakistani soil. The report says the Pakistani agency planned to have the Taliban use the explosives "to assassinate high-ranking officials."

The August 2005 document does not describe its sources. Cadena Ser did not say how it obtained the report.

Western intelligence agencies have long suspected that elements of Pakistan's spy service have aided the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan. But this report appears to be the first leaked to the media that spells out such a connection in writing.

A Pakistani official on Wednesday vehemently denied that any such link existed.

Chief Pakistani army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the Spanish report was "baseless, unfounded and part of a malicious, well-orchestrated propaganda campaign to malign the ISI."

"ISI is the first line of defense of Pakistan and certain quarters are attempting to weaken our national intelligence system," Abbas said, without elaborating.

In Spain, the Defense Ministry and the prime minister's office said they had no comment on the document.

Fernando Reinares, a terrorism analyst at the Elcano Royal Institute in Madrid and former chief counterterrorism adviser at Spain's Interior Ministry, said the document appeared to be an internal report intended for high-level officials. Spain has about 800 soldiers deployed in northwest Afghanistan.

The report says "it appears possible" that advanced training camps exist in Pakistan "where the Taliban receive training, help and intelligence from the ISI," and where they are also developing new improvised explosive devices. The report says the Taliban had also been receiving help from Al Qaeda.

Reinares said the report on the alleged ISI-Taliban link is in keeping with information from other Western spy agencies.

"The intelligence services have done nothing more then confirm a reality which has also been reported by other Western agencies," he told The Associated Press. Reinares said Spain has developed a strong military and police intelligence operation in Pakistan, particularly since the deadly terrorist attacks of March 11, 2004 on commuter trains in Madrid.

The ISI spy agency has helped kill or capture several top Al Qaeda leaders since 2001, but there are lingering doubts about its loyalty — not least because its agents helped build up the Taliban in the 1990s.

U.S. intelligence agencies suspect rogue elements may still be giving Taliban militants sensitive information to aid in their growing insurgency in Afghanistan, even though officially Pakistan is a U.S. ally in fighting terrorism.

Some analysts say elements in the spy agency may want to retain the Taliban as potentially helpful against longtime rival India and may believe that Pakistan's strategic interests are best served if Afghanistan remains a weak state.

India and Afghanistan — and reportedly the U.S. — suspect the ISI of involvement in the July 7 bombing outside India's Embassy in Kabul, which killed more than 60 people. Pakistan denies the allegations.

Pakistan's army chief this week named a general considered a hawk in the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban to head the ISI.

The Taliban has regularly used roadside bombs to attack U.S. troops and Afghan security forces since the beginning of the insurgency following the fall off the movement in 2001.

The explosives used have become increasingly powerful in the past year and can rip through an armored military vehicle and kill everyone inside.

I agree with Ather Abbas

in order to hide incompetance and horrible atrosities US and west is Projecting that whole problem lies in Pakistan

I ask you(you are indian and i dont expect any good)

why US opposed fenseing Durand Line

why there is so much colletral damage

why only Pak army sacrifises are more than 22 hundred excludeing losses of Pulice and fc etc and US and NATO combined 1142

why independent journalists like patric cockburn etc are saying Afghans hate US and are helping Talibs against US


in last treat for you

The US, through USAID and the University of Nebraska, spends millions of dollars developing and printing textbooks for Afghan schoolchildren. The textbooks are filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation. For instance, children are taught to count with illustrations showing tanks, missiles, and land mines. Lacking any alternative, millions of these textbooks are used long after 1994; the Taliban are still using them in 2001. In 2002, the US will start producing less violent versions of the same books, which President Bush says will have “respect for human dignity, instead of indoctrinating students with fanaticism and bigotry.” (He will fail to mention who created those earlier books). [Washington Post, 3/23/2002; Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, 5/6/2002] A University of Nebraska academic named Thomas Gouttierre leads the textbook program. Journalist Robert Dreyfuss will later reveal that although funding for Gouttierre’s work went through USAID, it was actually paid for by the CIA. Unocal will pay Gouttierre to work with the Taliban (see December 1997) and he will host visits of Taliban leaders to the US, including trips in 1997 and 1999 (see December 4, 1997 and July-August 1999). [Dreyfuss, 2005, pp. 328]

one more

In an interview, Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s National Security Adviser, admits that it was US policy to support radical Islamists to undermine Russia. He admits that US covert action drew Russia into starting the Afghan war in 1979 (see July 3, 1979). Asked if he has regrets about this, he responds, “Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war.” Then he is asked if he regrets “having given arms and advice to future terrorists,” and he responds, “What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?” The interviewer then says, “Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.” But Brzezinski responds, “Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam….” [Le Nouvel Observateur (Paris), 1/15/1998] Even after 9/11, Brzezinski will maintain that the covert action program remains justified. [Nation, 10/25/2001] /QUOTE]

 

[Bhushan]

Yup it may be or may not be who know whats true. Bcoz now everyone try and get what ever benefit they can gain from the on going conflict. They dont get a crap for any thing else but "Me, & Myself" that it.

ISI very well knows as long as this war against Taliban is active the aid flow won't stop from USA.

 

[Bill Longley]

ISI very well knows as long as this war against Taliban is active the aid flow won't stop from USA.

what kind of foolish argument is this

which govt or agency likes to face civil war type situation for earning money

dammit by accusing ISI and Govt you are Accusing whole Pakistani Nation which by the way has lost thousands of its sons and fighting war against terror at least better the Others

 

[godsavetheworld]

I agree with Ather Abbas

in order to hide incompetance and horrible atrosities US and west is Projecting that whole problem lies in Pakistan

I ask you(you are indian and i dont expect any good)

why US opposed fenseing Durand Line

why there is so much colletral damage

why only Pak army sacrifises are more than 22 hundred excludeing losses of Pulice and fc etc and US and NATO combined 1142

why independent journalists like patric cockburn etc are saying Afghans hate US and are helping Talibs against US


in last treat for you

They are also saying that the Army and the ISI still help the terrorists. Those like Kamran Shafi blame the ISI and the Army for ruinning their country. Why live in denial? Donot forget the kind of atrocacies commited by PA in 1971 war, did that stop Bangladesh from being formed? Your argument is as stupid and childish.

Reign in on your patriotism for once, and stop looking at things through a kaleidoscope. The is argument of losing more soldiers is worthless. Has the sacrifice achieved anything? Americans lost 1142 soldiers and ensured that there not be a single terror attack on their homeland, did Pakistan assure that? On the contrary there have been about 5000 terrorist attacks since 2001..

I ask you(you are indian and i dont expect any good)

Now that is a very patronising thing to say. Just because we are Indians doesnt mean what we say is always wrong, on the contrary all that we have alleged since 1990s about ISI, PA is now out in the open. We want people and not terrorists leaving in our neighbourhood.

 

[Bhushan]

Proof of ISI help to Lashkar and Taliban, say top US officials

Electronic surveillance and trusted informants have provided the US with proof of direct ISI support for the Taliban’s widening campaign in southern Afghanistan and American officials say the Pakistani spy agency also shared intelligence with Lashkar-e-Toiba, the militant group suspected in the Mumbai attacks, and provided it protection.

Top American officials speak bluntly about how the situation has changed little since last summer, when evidence showed that ISI operatives helped plan the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, an attack that killed 54 people. “They (ISI) have been very attached to many of these extremist organizations, and it’s my belief that in the long run, they have got to completely cut ties with those in order to really move in the right direction,” Adm Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on The Charlie Rose Show on PBS.

After the US confronted Pakistan with evidence about the Indian Embassy bombing, President Asif Ali Zardari pledged

that the ISI would be “handled,” and that anyone working with militants would be dismissed. Yet with the future of Zardari’s government uncertain in the current political turmoil and with Obama officials seeing few immediate alternatives, American officials and outside experts said that Pakistan’s military establishment appears to see little advantage in responding to the demands of civilian officials in Islamabad or Washington.

Support for the Taliban, as well as other militant groups, is coordinated by operatives inside the shadowy S Wing of the ISI, officials said. There is even evidence that ISI operatives meet regularly with Taliban commanders to discuss whether to intensify or scale back violence before the Afghan elections. The support consists of money, military supplies and strategic planning guidance to Taliban commanders who are gearing up to confront the international force in Afghanistan that will soon include some 17,000 American reinforcements.

 

[Bhushan]

what kind of foolish argument is this

which govt or agency likes to face civil war type situation for earning money

dammit by accusing ISI and Govt you are Accusing whole Pakistani Nation which by the way has lost thousands of its sons and fighting war against terror at least better the Others

I am really sorry if my statement hurt you and anybody. I didn't mean to accuse Pakistani People.

But such strategies can be used by intelligence agencies which is not a surprise. If there is no war then there will not be military aid.

 

[Bill Longley]

well sir you are saying whole nation is terrorist?????????/


pakistan Army and Agencies are recruted from Masses better keep in mind

you abuse whole nation and then pretend to be friend

propoganda against army and ISI started from India and through continuous propoganda india achieved its objectives in information war fare.

but the fact that terrorism in south asia is out come of Indian chanakya inspired policies in words of Thomas A Mark, Expert in Insurgencies and Professer in an American University and ex US soldier

....Policy of regional imperialism has always been a driving force in formulation of Indian foreign policy since its independence
RAW (Research and analysis wing), the main intelligence and sabotage agency of India was ordered by Indra’s government to train and equip Tamil terrorists. The “Third agency of RAW,” a supra intelligence out fit started training Tamil insurgents in 32 training camps. By mid 1987, 20,000 insurgents had been trained and were provided weapons by central government of India and state government of Tamil Nadu. While most of the initial training was confined to military and paramilitary camps in utter Perdeash, specialized training was given in special training camps in New Delhi, Momby, and Vishakhapatnam[xxvi]. The most enigmatic training was given to insurgents in Dera Dun along with Bengali, Pakistani and Tibetan rebels.....(Thomas A. Marks, Maoist insurgency since Vietnam, Frank Cass and company limited London.1996, P.220)

 

[white_pawn]

what kind of foolish argument is this

which govt or agency likes to face civil war type situation for earning money

dammit by accusing ISI and Govt you are Accusing whole Pakistani Nation which by the way has lost thousands of its sons and fighting war against terror at least better the Others

i cannot prove the ISI or GOP or even Pa is invoelved in waging civil war in pakistan and even cannot deny the fact that not all, but some members are there who help taliban in their deeds.

ya pakistan have lost so many brave soilder's and lots of civilian in this war, and I definately don't find it unworthy as they are laying their lives for their motherland.

Even US dont want the war to end, just imagin its been 8 + years and still they are unable to find Osama. So that US and make other countires feel thier presence in the region, as the region is energy rich. And US needs it to keep thier country going on.