US-origin M777 howitzers to add fire power to Indian Army

[saurav]

Well this simply isn't true. You can only upgrade your infrastructure so much but air-mobile arty guns will always be the king of the battlefield. You don't think being able to transport 155/52 calibre arty guns wherever you like is a nice capability to have and a pretty devastating one at that?


A/C will obviously operate in airspace where safe flight ops can be carried out. Considering arty will always be a few kms behind the frontline this isn't a real issue.


Comparing Apples and Oranges, the M777 fills a very real niche and thus comparing it to the FH-77/Dhanush is silly to say the least.

This gun is not 155/52, its 155/39...

M777 does a good job for being a ULH. But My point is that when Armed forces are being asked to prioritize procurements because of lack of funds, this 700 Million dollars could have been better utilized.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This gun is not 155/52, its 155/39...

You're right.

M777 does a good job for being a ULH. But My point is that when Armed forces are being asked to prioritize procurements because of lack of funds, this 700 Million dollars could have been better utilized.

Really? Considering the lack of any arty inductions in the past 30 years arty is a major priority area for the armed forces. Where better could this $700 million have gone? IF the GoI is serious about raising the MSC then they need to give it the tools to be effective, the M777 is one of the lynchpins for success, without it the MSC will be severely degraded. This is a very smart purchase and will serve the IA well, there simply is no viable alternative to this system, it is expensive because of the capabilities it brings you cannot get around that.

 

[saurav]

You're right.



Really? Considering the lack of any arty inductions in the past 30 years arty is a major priority area for the armed forces. Where better could this $700 million have gone? IF the GoI is serious about raising the MSC then they need to give it the tools to be effective, the M777 is one of the lynchpins for success, without it the MSC will be severely degraded. This is a very smart purchase and will serve the IA well, there simply is no viable alternative to this system, it is expensive because of the capabilities it brings you cannot get around that.

Might have got invested in a new production line to churnout more Dhanush and its 52 Cal variant which is being developed. If mobility is a concern then MGS should have been increased. I find the dependence of US/UK firms for sub sub systems for just 150 guns worrisome, not to forget the flow of money from India to other countries.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Might have got invested in a new production line to churnout more Dhanush and its 52 Cal variant which is being developed.

This is going to happen regardless. both the Dhanush and M777 will be operated in large numbers in the IA.

If mobility is a concern then MGS should have been increased.

Again, this is coming regardless and the MGS sill has the same mobility issues- it won't be air-mobile to the same degree.

I find the dependence of US/UK firms for sub sub systems for just 150 guns worrisome,

More than 145 are coming that is for sure.

not to forget the flow of money from India to other countries.

This is just how it is for now, the picture will be different in a decade or so but that doesn't help meet the needs of today.

 

[Superboy]

India cannot even build artillery? WOW, so much for being INDO EUROPEAN. I guess there are big differences between Indo Europeans

 

[nik22]

India cannot even build artillery? WOW, so much for being INDO EUROPEAN. I guess there are big differences between Indo Europeans

What?????

 

[Suman]

I think the artillery catapult systems are number 1 in the world? at least in terms of numbers

 

[jhungary]

No, that is the only area where the M-777 scores over the bofors.

the only advantage these M777 's are having is that they can be air lifted but they need more men and its low tech, we are buying these only because for the last 60 years our govt run ordnance factories are doing sh*t, because of the bad policies of our previous govt's we have to buy these low tech guns for huge money wasting our foreign exchange, it is said that these M777 guns are casted out of titanium is it true? please any one answer


may be to air lift these guns we need to buy chinooks, our MI-26 may not be enough, the american way of marketing

lol, from a person who had actually used both, I can tell you, NO.

being able to be airlifted is not the only advantage of M777, they also have a longer range (When you use base-bleed round) compare to FH77, even with the same round (M982) and M777 can fire both smart munition and is lighter, that mean you can pack more gun on transport with accessories than the Bofor

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well this simply isn't true. You can only upgrade your infrastructure so much but air-mobile arty guns will always be the king of the battlefield. You don't think being able to transport 155 calibre arty guns wherever you like is a nice capability to have and a pretty devastating one at that?


A/C will obviously operate in airspace where safe flight ops can be carried out. Considering arty will always be a few kms behind the frontline this isn't a real issue.


Comparing Apples and Oranges, the M777 fills a very real niche and thus comparing it to the FH-77/Dhanush is silly to say the least.


From what I understand the M777 deal for India includes an undisclosed amount of Excaliubur rounds. This really is an area India needs to develop an in-house alternative purely for cost reasons and I hear such things are in the works and being pursued aggressively.


No way. 15 is just the beginning for sure.

Undisclosed number of Excalibur rounds ?


Your understanding is wrong .. You are merely going to (if the deal is actually signed) assemble m-777s (not get transfer of technology). And no Excalibur rounds (which are produced by Raytheon - not BAE).


Raytheon: Excalibur Precision Guided Extended Range Artillery Projectile

 

[Superboy]

Not a fan of guided artillery rounds. Artillery barrel should be controlled and moved around by a fire control computer. Artillery round should not be guided.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Not a fan of guided artillery rounds. Artillery barrel should be controlled and moved around by a fire control computer. Artillery round should not be guided.

Arty locating radars today are very advanced .. You can find out the location where arty fire in comin within seconds and let lose an arty barrage at those locations.. For towed arty thts like hell fire .. SLC-2 for example can calculate the positions of individual fire or barrage from concentrated areas (from where the fire is coming -- or even changing positions .. Calculate it like shit and give you a solution to concentrate your fire on).. And there goes the enemy guns.

Besides in a war limited number of guided rounds against a conventionally strong and professional military aren't much useful ...


P.S: Chinese themselves are producing such rounds .. Even our SH-1s (92 on order -36 delivered) are coming with those.

 

[Armstrong]

lol, from a person who had actually used both, I can tell you, NO.

being able to be airlifted is not the only advantage of M777, they also have a longer range (When you use base-bleed round) compare to FH77, even with the same round (M982) and M777 can fire both smart munition and is lighter, that mean you can pack more gun on transport with accessories than the Bofor

You used both of them ?

I thought you were a Cavalier and not an Artillery Gunner !

And you would sell these guns to our Enemy ?

I thought we were Brothers !

 

[uparyupari]

lol, from a person who had actually used both, I can tell you, NO.

being able to be airlifted is not the only advantage of M777, they also have a longer range (When you use base-bleed round) compare to FH77, even with the same round (M982) and M777 can fire both smart munition and is lighter, that mean you can pack more gun on transport with accessories than the Bofor

Dhanush which is the upgraded Indian version of the FH77 has an rage of 38 km with ERFB (base bleed). M-777 range with ERFB is 30 km.

So for India, its light weight is the only advantage of M-777.

 

[jhungary]

Dhanush which is the upgraded Indian version of the FH77 has an rage of 38 km with ERFB (base bleed). M-777 range with ERFB is 30 km.

So for India, its light weight is the only advantage of M-777.

Base Bleed round are 40+ km on M777. The one I fired can hit target beyond 42 Km, nobody really know how far can a M982 travel on a M777, kind of depend on the atmospheric

You used both of them ?

I thought you were a Cavalier and not an Artillery Gunner !

And you would sell these guns to our Enemy ?

I thought we were Brothers !

lol Cavalrymen still need to know how operate artillery piece, and we always have 2 batteries of Light Artillery or SP gun attached to Infantry and Cavalry unit...

 

[uparyupari]

Might have got invested in a new production line to churnout more Dhanush and its 52 Cal variant which is being developed. If mobility is a concern then MGS should have been increased. I find the dependence of US/UK firms for sub sub systems for just 150 guns worrisome, not to forget the flow of money from India to other countries.

M777 has been acquired for the Strike Force. Strike Force is that unit of the IA which will go on the offensive and attack the enemy and take the war into their territory.

For that Bofors' cannot be used since it cannot be airlifted into Tibet. M-777 has been designed and built precisely for this purpose and its proven in battle.

Base Bleed round are 40+ km on M777. The one I fired can hit target beyond 42 Km, nobody really know how far can a M982 travel on a M777, kind of depend on the atmospheric

I am going by published figures.

In Kargil FH77 regularly fired ERFB ammo over 35 km. But official range is still 24 km.