US created Taliban and abandoned Pakistan: Clinton

[white_pawn]

I would say its 90% US and remaining you know . They are all round Pakistan.

 

[white_pawn]

Ok kidding aside, but ya Us has created a hell of a mess for pakistan, and if Clinton have admited it, its not some thing new, everyone knows about it.

 

[Bill Longley]

with friend like US who need enemies
Imam Khomini rightly called US as buzurg shitan

 

[FC-20]

we hav to fight these bloody Talibs its the need of hour, leave history behind, they pose a threat to Pak n they mus be eliminated, COAS has given encouraging remarks, its time 4 action, we need a national consensus on how to deal with these bloody A$$ holes, enuf is enuf...

 

[white_pawn]

FC-20 your right, here PA is fully capable to get rid of taliban, but its the political willpower what is required.

 

[FC-20]

man when will tht political will come, i don expect anythin good from ppl like zardari, we lost 1000s of ppl billions of dollars our image is destroyed by these cavemen n still our politicians hav turned a blind eye to everything, these politicians r only interested in gaining their own benefits
had hote ha yar......
the once most peaceful n beautiful valley turned into a a valley of death
they hav reached buner n still..........

 

[Bill Longley]

although i am no fan of zardari but ppl plz try to realize
un ease lies in the head which wears the crown

 

[white_pawn]

See currently the most members of GOP are under US influence, they do what US tells them to do. The day GOP stands up to US and say's enough is enough may be we may see some changes and only pakistan ppls can Pressurize GOP to do so, they have done it in the past and can do it again. Bcoz for everyone country's dignity comes first.

 

[Bill Longley]

yea support for taliban is mainly due to hate for US and our Strategic elite who is pseudo American

 

[Kasrkin]

‘So we then left Pakistan … We said okay fine you deal with the Stingers that we left all over your country… you deal with the mines that are along the border and… by the way we don’t want to have anything to do with you…'

I remember having a big argument about this many days ago. Like I said, this is indeed the prevalent belief, and one that happens to be shared by the new US administration apparently. US commitment to the region has been far from consistent, and that’s the polite way of saying it…

 

[PeacefulIndian]

‘So we then left Pakistan … We said okay fine you deal with the Stingers that we left all over your country… you deal with the mines that are along the border and… by the way we don’t want to have anything to do with you…'

I remember having a big argument about this many days ago. Like I said, this is indeed the prevalent belief, and one that happens to be shared by the new US administration apparently. US commitment to the region has been far from consistent, and that’s the polite way of saying it…

Having agreed to that, there is also a prevalent belief that since 9/11, Pakistani commitment to WoT has been far from consistent. While you point fingers at external factors, holding them accountable for what they created for you, how do you absolve yourself from the blame of being a passive spectator, when you actually could have done something? Do you discard the theory that radical Islamic elements within your administration have much more blame to share, than the US strategies?

 

[Kasrkin]

"how do you absolve yourself from the blame of being a passive spectator, when you actually could have done something?..."

By accusing Pakistan of having been a 'passive spectator' all this time you're over exerting even your own clumsy stereotypes. Certainly no one in the US establishment will claim, like you are here, that Pakistan has done nothing or less than nothing. Thousands of Pakistani military casualties, far exceeding those of international forces in Afghanistan, will also attest to the inaccuracy of your insinuation.

As for your contention that ‘radical Islamist elements’ supposedly ‘within’ my country’s ‘administration’ having more blame to share, well in that case I’m afraid you’ve completely misunderstood the context of this article and of what Mrs. Clinton said. If the US hadn’t politically washed their hands off the region when their Soviet orientated objectives were achieved, there might not have been a Taliban because we might not have had the limited policy choices that we did then thus the WoT as we know it today would not have existed. Effectively leaving people like you without an excuse to accuse ‘my country’s administration’ of hosting ‘radical Islamist elements’ in the first place.

‘But the problems we face now to some extent we have to take responsibility for, having contributed to it. We also have a history of kind of moving in and out of Pakistan,’ she said.

 

[Durran3]

When you are told on a daily basis that more than 70% of Pakistan’s budget goes towards the military you immediately start to think, that your military must be fully equipped, and ready to counter any threats that maybe geared towards the Nation. How was it that the 7th largest Military in the world could not handle a bunch of barbaric, misguided, delusional bunch of miscreants? Does General Kayani not know the consequences of the Taliban movement? Is the GOP so weak to tackle the Taliban Head on? The fundamental principle in negotiating with terrorists is to ‘Not Negotiate’ period. You can not negotiate with the Taliban, you can can not make peace deals with the Taliban, you can not come to common terms with the Taliban. History has proven time, time again that every time a peace deal has come into play the Taliban have gained more ground, no different than a virus that spreads if left untreated. Terrorism has cost Pakistan $35 billion in economic losses and damage to infrastructure, according to the government in Islamabad, that in itself speaks volumes of the dire situation the Nation is in.


The Taliban did a good job of destroying Afghanistan and left it to bleed for more than a decade and a half. If Pakistan does not take security measures that are desperately needed at this hour we won’t be any less different. Statistically speaking no nation has ever been able to recover from the mess that the Taliban leftnbehind, but than again thats only Afghanistan, but we all know what Taliban use to recruit new members, lack of education, poverty, religious dogma, no jobs all of which are abundantly available in Pakistan.

What to me is really striking and fascinating is the simple fact that how many pro Taliban elements still exist in the country and how their representatives come on television to brag and complain about their way of life being taken over by liberal extremism. Do these people even understand what freedom of conscience, freedom of choice and freedom of expression really mean? Are these liberal extremists not the ones who fought tooth and nail for an independent judiciary and took part in the long marches to uphold the lawyers movement. Do they really want a complete authoriatiaran rule where their civil rights will be stripped of from them from head to toe. The Taliban have killed more Pakistani service men than the last three wars that have taken place between Pakistan and India.


Sufi Muhammad is a disgrace but i suppose he said what he was told to by the Taliban with an AK47 up his chin for calling the Pakistani Constitution ‘un-islamic’ . The ANP government is weak to the core and has disappointed the Pashtuns tremendously. We now literally have two states within a single state, the part that the Taliban control and the part that is under the Federal government of Pakistan and this state within a state seems to be growing step by step now that the Taliban forces have entered the beautiful town of Buner, whats next Abbotabad, Islamabad? Why no one is taking a legitimate stand against this crisis just baffles me. Where are the long marches to protest against this kind of injustice? Where is Imran Khan or Nawaz sharif or even our beloved Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman, are these guys not the ones who love to jump and oppose any bill that basically passes in the parliament, where is the outcry when you need it the most?

Fact is, times are changing and its up to us to take responsibility for the future of Pakistan. Enough with blaming RAW, Mossand and the secrent CIA, all that is complete bullocks ( I am talking about TTP ), the Taliban are real and here and if you think that they are some foriegn entity’s creation than you need come out of your mom’s basement and look at the ground realities. There is no point in blaming the Soviat Union, Zia, GID or Charlie Wilson, you can take out your drums and trumpets and by all means bang them till the end of times but unless and until you take responsilibiliy for whats here and whats now things will remain the same and the Taliban would win.

People need to stop sympthazing with the Taliban, its not like this is the first time Pakistan is involved in fighting Terrorism. I am not a fan of Musharaff but when he was going after the Taliban, people started criticizing him day in and day out about how many innocents are dieing, in WANA and FATA. Well here is the fact folks.. ‘Innocents ARE going to Die’... there is no other way, neogtiations and diplomacy with the Taliban is out of the question and to even think about it is showing complete weakness against a virus that feeds and breeds when everyone is silence, and if you can’t comprehend a simple scenario like that you shouldn’t be looking at politics.

The time for mumbling is over and its time for some strict coherent action against these elements. The military needs to pull up its act and hit these delusional idiots hard and smite them out. The military needs proper counter-terrorism training instead of conventional warfare training. India poses no threat to Pakistan in its current state and infact faces the same problems of terrorism that Pakistan is facing albeit at a much smaller scale. Hillary Clinton was right about Pakistan facing an existential threat and whats scary is the simple fact of how many Pakistani’s are simply oblivious to this whole scneario or simply don’t bother talking about it, and thats something that will plunge the country into a Failed State.

 

[Bill Longley]

BUZURG SHITAN

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Kasrkin -

By accusing Pakistan of having been a 'passive spectator' all this time you're over exerting even your own clumsy stereotypes. Certainly no one in the US establishment will claim, like you are here, that Pakistan has done nothing or less than nothing. Thousands of Pakistani military casualties, far exceeding those of international forces in Afghanistan, will also attest to the inaccuracy of your insinuation.

I will actually direct you to the post of Durran3 above. He pretty much explained what I wanted to put up regarding your administration's attitude. Saves me time of phrasing my thoughts.

You always have this shield of thousands of fatalities that your army suffered. While nobody is denying that fact, one also ponders that you are reimbursed by US for what you DELIVER. And thousands of your casualties, sadly, do not account as DELIVERY in WoT. US have been accusing you of inaction since quite a while now. They have been repeatedly pointing out the lack of solid results on ground level.

I am just questioning your attitude of selectively believing US statements/accusations. When Mrs. Clinton shares a part of the blame, you agree. When the same person, with equal sincerity, asserts that your government needs to deliver, you blame her. And that is beyond my comprehension.

As for your contention that ‘radical Islamist elements’ supposedly ‘within’ my country’s ‘administration’ having more blame to share, well in that case I’m afraid you’ve completely misunderstood the context of this article and of what Mrs. Clinton said. If the US hadn’t politically washed their hands off the region when their Soviet orientated objectives were achieved, there might not have been a Taliban because we might not have had the limited policy choices that we did then thus the WoT as we know it today would not have existed. Effectively leaving people like you without an excuse to accuse ‘my country’s administration’ of hosting ‘radical Islamist elements’ in the first place.

You are going into a hypothetical scenario. You assert that there would been no WoT today, had US not washed off their hands. That would have happened only in a Utopia. US, Pakistan, Afghanistan did not form a Utopia then, they do not do so now. I personally think that your administration would have thwarted all US efforts, if any at that time, to 'neutralize' the mujahideen/ Taliban elements. Who would want to surrender an army fighting for Allah, giving you an easy access to dominate & virtually rule your neighboring country? So I find it difficult to buy your argument that everything would have been all rosy by now, but alas, US just moved out.