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US catches Afghan govt 'red handed' in plotting with Pakistani Taliban: Report

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KABUL, Afghanistan — A bungled attempt by the Afghan government to cultivate a shadowy alliance with Islamist militants escalated into the latest flash point in the troubled relationship between Afghanistan and the United States, according to new accounts by officials from both countries.


The disrupted plan involved Afghan intelligence trying to work with the Pakistan Taliban, allies of Al Qaeda, in order to find a trump card in a baroque regional power game that is likely to intensify after the American withdrawal next year, the officials said. And what started the hard feelings was that the Americans caught them red-handed.

Tipped off to the plan, United States Special Forces raided an Afghan convoy that was ushering a senior Pakistan Taliban militant, Latif Mehsud, to Kabul for secret talks last month, and now have Mr. Mehsud in custody.

Publicly, the Afghan government has described Mr. Mehsud as an insurgent peace emissary. But according to Afghan officials, the ultimate plan was to take revenge on the Pakistani military.

In the murk of intrigue and paranoia that dominates the relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Pakistanis have long had the upper hand. A favorite complaint of Afghan officials is how Pakistani military intelligence has sheltered and nurtured the Taliban and supported their insurgency against the Afghan government.

Now, not content to be merely the target of a proxy war, the Afghan government decided to recruit proxies of its own by seeking to aid the Pakistan Taliban in their fight against Pakistan’s security forces, according to Afghan officials. And they were beginning to make progress over the past year, they say, before the American raid exposed them.

Although Afghan anger over the raid has been an open issue since it was revealed in news reports this month, it is only now that the full purpose of the Afghan operation that prompted the raid has been detailed by American and Afghan officials. Those officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss secret intelligence matters.

The thinking, Afghan officials said, was that the Afghans could later gain an advantage in negotiations with the Pakistani government by offering to back off their support for the militants.

Aiding the Pakistan Taliban was an “opportunity to bring peace on our terms,” one senior Afghan security official said.

From the American standpoint, though, it has exposed a new level of futility in the war effort here. Not only has Washington failed to persuade Pakistan to stop using militants to destabilize its neighbors — a major American foreign policy goal in recent years — but its failure also appears to have persuaded Afghanistan to try the same thing.

Worse still, for American officials, was the Afghans’ choice of militant allies. Though the Afghan and Pakistan Taliban are operationally distinct, they are loosely aligned; the Pakistani insurgents, for instance, pledge allegiance to Mullah Muhammad Omar, the founder of the Afghan Taliban. In the estimation of American officials, support for one invariably bleeds into assistance for the other.

At the same time, the Pakistan Taliban shares its base in the tribal areas of Pakistan with a number of Islamist groups that have tried to mount attacks in the West, including the remnants of Al Qaeda’s original leadership. The Pakistan Taliban have also showed a willingness to strike beyond the region, unlike the Afghan Taliban. Mr. Mehsud, for instance, is suspected of having a role in the foiled plot to detonate a car bomb in Times Square in 2010, American officials said.

American officials said they were also worried that the Afghan actions would give credibility to Pakistani complaints that enemies based in Afghanistan presented them with a threat equivalent to the Afghan insurgency. No one in the Western intelligence community believes the comparison to be anywhere close, given that the Afghan Taliban insurgency, with help from its Pakistani allies, has killed tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan in the past 12 years, including more than 2,000 Americans.

“What were they thinking?” said one American official of his Afghan counterparts.

Both Afghan and American officials said the Afghan plan to aid the Pakistan Taliban was in its preliminary stages when Mr. Mehsud was seized by American forces. But they agree on little else.

American officials interviewed about the raid say they saved Afghanistan from folly. Pakistan’s use of militants has left that country torn by violence with group after group spinning out of the government’s control — the Pakistan Taliban being Exhibit A. The Americans also said it was not clear how much help the Afghans could actually provide the Pakistan Taliban.

In the Afghan telling, the theft of their prized intelligence asset is an egregious example of American bullying, and President Hamid Karzai remains furious about it. Afghan officials assert that Mr. Mehsud’s continued detention could still derail a pact to keep American troops here beyond next year, despite the progress toward reaching a deal made during talks this month between Mr. Karzai and Secretary of State John Kerry.

Aimal Faizi, a spokesman for Mr. Karzai, said that Mr. Mehsud had been in contact with officials from the National Directorate of Security, Afghanistan’s intelligence agency, for “a long period of time.

The Pakistan Taliban leader “was part of an N.D.S. project like every other intelligence agency is doing,” Mr. Faizi said in an apparent reference to the support provided to the Afghan Taliban by Pakistan intelligence. “He was cooperating. He was engaged with the N.D.S. — this I can confirm.”

Mr. Faizi did not elaborate on the nature of the cooperation. But two other Afghan officials, when asked why they were willing to discuss such a potentially provocative plot, said Mr. Mehsud’s detention by the United States had already been exposed — it was firstreported by The Washington Post — ruining his value as an intelligence asset and sinking their plan.

As a consolation, the Afghan officials said they now wanted Pakistan to know that Afghanistan could play dirty as well. One said they would try again if given the opportunity.

Afghan officials dismissed American admonishments about the dangers of working with militants as the kind of condescension they have come to expect. No one in Mr. Karzai’s government was naïve enough to believe they could turn the Pakistan Taliban into a reliable proxy, said a former Afghan official familiar with the matter.

“I would describe what we wanted to do was foster a mutually beneficial relationship,” the former official said. “We’ve all seen that these people are nobodies — proxies.”

Another Afghan official said the logic of the region dictated the need for unseemly alliances. The United States, in fact, has relied on some of Afghanistan’s most notorious warlords to fight the insurgency here, the official tartly noted.

“Everyone has an angle,” the official said. “That’s the way we’re thinking. Some people said we needed our own.”

Afghan officials said those people included American military officers and C.I.A. operatives. Frustrated by their limited ability to hit Taliban havens in Pakistan, some Americans suggested that the Afghans find a way to do it, they claimed.

So Afghanistan’s intelligence agency believed it had a green light from the United States when it was approached by Mr. Mehsud sometime in the past year.

After months of negotiations with Mr. Mehsud, the intelligence agency struck an initial deal, two Afghan officials said: Afghanistan would not harass Pakistan Taliban fighters sheltering in mountains along the border if the insurgents did not attack Afghan forces.

Still, the Afghans decided to keep their relationship with Mr. Mehsud a secret and did not tell American officials.

An American official briefed on Mr. Mehsud’s case said there was “absolutely no way” any American would encourage the Afghans to work with the Pakistan Taliban or do anything that could result in attacks on Pakistani forces or civilians, the official said.

“If they thought we’d approve,” the American official added, “why did they keep it a secret?”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/w..._content=bufferbf609&utm_medium=twitter&_r=2&
 
So that's how Afghans playing a dangerous war, at one side they tell americans, they are cultivating assets in Pakistan so to destroy save havens of Haqqani and on the other side, the assets which are TTP, instructing them to attack Pakistani civilians and military from as long as 2008. When Bajaur TTP chief said in an interview Governor kunar offered him to help his group financially and materialistically

Since Afghan Gov needs finances, that's where Indians step in. They provide them finances, man power to train gullible people and other expertise to train cannon fodder

And I hate all these things coming from International media, exposing of afghan terrorism in Pakistan instead of Pakistan government proactively taking steps to expose their game in front of it's Awaam and taking it's citizen in confidence regarding all these things
 
As the days of exodus come closer, many secrets will surface.

NDS will do what they have been taught, we still want to negotiate with them :)
 
KABUL, Afghanistan — A bungled attempt by the Afghan government to cultivate a shadowy alliance with Islamist militants escalated into the latest flash point in the troubled relationship between Afghanistan and the United States, according to new accounts by officials from both countries.


The disrupted plan involved Afghan intelligence trying to work with the Pakistan Taliban, allies of Al Qaeda, in order to find a trump card in a baroque regional power game that is likely to intensify after the American withdrawal next year, the officials said. And what started the hard feelings was that the Americans caught them red-handed.

Tipped off to the plan, United States Special Forces raided an Afghan convoy that was ushering a senior Pakistan Taliban militant, Latif Mehsud, to Kabul for secret talks last month, and now have Mr. Mehsud in custody.

Publicly, the Afghan government has described Mr. Mehsud as an insurgent peace emissary. But according to Afghan officials, the ultimate plan was to take revenge on the Pakistani military.

In the murk of intrigue and paranoia that dominates the relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Pakistanis have long had the upper hand. A favorite complaint of Afghan officials is how Pakistani military intelligence has sheltered and nurtured the Taliban and supported their insurgency against the Afghan government.

Now, not content to be merely the target of a proxy war, the Afghan government decided to recruit proxies of its own by seeking to aid the Pakistan Taliban in their fight against Pakistan’s security forces, according to Afghan officials. And they were beginning to make progress over the past year, they say, before the American raid exposed them.

Although Afghan anger over the raid has been an open issue since it was revealed in news reports this month, it is only now that the full purpose of the Afghan operation that prompted the raid has been detailed by American and Afghan officials. Those officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss secret intelligence matters.

The thinking, Afghan officials said, was that the Afghans could later gain an advantage in negotiations with the Pakistani government by offering to back off their support for the militants.

Aiding the Pakistan Taliban was an “opportunity to bring peace on our terms,” one senior Afghan security official said.

From the American standpoint, though, it has exposed a new level of futility in the war effort here. Not only has Washington failed to persuade Pakistan to stop using militants to destabilize its neighbors — a major American foreign policy goal in recent years — but its failure also appears to have persuaded Afghanistan to try the same thing.

Worse still, for American officials, was the Afghans’ choice of militant allies. Though the Afghan and Pakistan Taliban are operationally distinct, they are loosely aligned; the Pakistani insurgents, for instance, pledge allegiance to Mullah Muhammad Omar, the founder of the Afghan Taliban. In the estimation of American officials, support for one invariably bleeds into assistance for the other.

At the same time, the Pakistan Taliban shares its base in the tribal areas of Pakistan with a number of Islamist groups that have tried to mount attacks in the West, including the remnants of Al Qaeda’s original leadership. The Pakistan Taliban have also showed a willingness to strike beyond the region, unlike the Afghan Taliban. Mr. Mehsud, for instance, is suspected of having a role in the foiled plot to detonate a car bomb in Times Square in 2010, American officials said.

American officials said they were also worried that the Afghan actions would give credibility to Pakistani complaints that enemies based in Afghanistan presented them with a threat equivalent to the Afghan insurgency. No one in the Western intelligence community believes the comparison to be anywhere close, given that the Afghan Taliban insurgency, with help from its Pakistani allies, has killed tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan in the past 12 years, including more than 2,000 Americans.

“What were they thinking?” said one American official of his Afghan counterparts.

Both Afghan and American officials said the Afghan plan to aid the Pakistan Taliban was in its preliminary stages when Mr. Mehsud was seized by American forces. But they agree on little else.

American officials interviewed about the raid say they saved Afghanistan from folly. Pakistan’s use of militants has left that country torn by violence with group after group spinning out of the government’s control — the Pakistan Taliban being Exhibit A. The Americans also said it was not clear how much help the Afghans could actually provide the Pakistan Taliban.

In the Afghan telling, the theft of their prized intelligence asset is an egregious example of American bullying, and President Hamid Karzai remains furious about it. Afghan officials assert that Mr. Mehsud’s continued detention could still derail a pact to keep American troops here beyond next year, despite the progress toward reaching a deal made during talks this month between Mr. Karzai and Secretary of State John Kerry.

Aimal Faizi, a spokesman for Mr. Karzai, said that Mr. Mehsud had been in contact with officials from the National Directorate of Security, Afghanistan’s intelligence agency, for “a long period of time.

The Pakistan Taliban leader “was part of an N.D.S. project like every other intelligence agency is doing,” Mr. Faizi said in an apparent reference to the support provided to the Afghan Taliban by Pakistan intelligence. “He was cooperating. He was engaged with the N.D.S. — this I can confirm.”

Mr. Faizi did not elaborate on the nature of the cooperation. But two other Afghan officials, when asked why they were willing to discuss such a potentially provocative plot, said Mr. Mehsud’s detention by the United States had already been exposed — it was firstreported by The Washington Post — ruining his value as an intelligence asset and sinking their plan.

As a consolation, the Afghan officials said they now wanted Pakistan to know that Afghanistan could play dirty as well. One said they would try again if given the opportunity.

Afghan officials dismissed American admonishments about the dangers of working with militants as the kind of condescension they have come to expect. No one in Mr. Karzai’s government was naïve enough to believe they could turn the Pakistan Taliban into a reliable proxy, said a former Afghan official familiar with the matter.

“I would describe what we wanted to do was foster a mutually beneficial relationship,” the former official said. “We’ve all seen that these people are nobodies — proxies.”

Another Afghan official said the logic of the region dictated the need for unseemly alliances. The United States, in fact, has relied on some of Afghanistan’s most notorious warlords to fight the insurgency here, the official tartly noted.

“Everyone has an angle,” the official said. “That’s the way we’re thinking. Some people said we needed our own.”

Afghan officials said those people included American military officers and C.I.A. operatives. Frustrated by their limited ability to hit Taliban havens in Pakistan, some Americans suggested that the Afghans find a way to do it, they claimed.

So Afghanistan’s intelligence agency believed it had a green light from the United States when it was approached by Mr. Mehsud sometime in the past year.

After months of negotiations with Mr. Mehsud, the intelligence agency struck an initial deal, two Afghan officials said: Afghanistan would not harass Pakistan Taliban fighters sheltering in mountains along the border if the insurgents did not attack Afghan forces.

Still, the Afghans decided to keep their relationship with Mr. Mehsud a secret and did not tell American officials.

An American official briefed on Mr. Mehsud’s case said there was “absolutely no way” any American would encourage the Afghans to work with the Pakistan Taliban or do anything that could result in attacks on Pakistani forces or civilians, the official said.

“If they thought we’d approve,” the American official added, “why did they keep it a secret?”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/w..._content=bufferbf609&utm_medium=twitter&_r=2&


This must have been a a suggestion by our neighbors on the east, considering in all these talks of Af-Pak policy after NATO forces leave Afghanistan, only the US, Afghanis and Pakistanis are in discussions leaving Indians out. Indians who have been quietly expanding their claws in Afghanistan under the so called hypothetical helping the Aghanistan development plan, would realize that they will be back to square one in 2014.
 
Probably the results of positive diplomacy with US. As the trust deficit is plugged, clearing out Afghanistan can be a good bargaining chip for a safe and economical logistic package for US. The stance that Afghanistan should not become a geopolitical battleground is indeed a good stance. As more and more of these plots are foiled, Indian Consulate will gradually become an unsafe place for anti-Pakistan strategy.
 
notice that all people from the east of our borders, their butt buddies from afghanistan and those who have trumpeted these ghaddars from FATA as our 'own people' will have nothing to say in this thread

The Hamid Mirs and Saleem Saifis will not touch upon this , nor will those from among those who write off everything as a 'conspiracy'

<mod edit>
 
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looking for scape goat, in case new Pakistani general goes public with evidence than US can blame it all on Northern Alliance's hate towards Pakistan.
 
Afghans are such piece of trash. We sheltered them, in millions, in our beautiful lands (and in doing so, ruined our own peace due to Afghan drugs and weapons)..and Afghans still do this to us? Even in real life, Afghans see themselves as some sort of superior beings than Pakistanis..I say, kick out all Afghans, and teach these little kids a good lesson..
 
TTP bombs Pakistani cities

Mr Mehsud was the 'hook' between TTP and Kabul.

Americans disapprove of this 'venture', so no American dollars have been allocated for this.

Afghan govt has no money to provide support at this scale.

They contact Hindustan, Hindutvadasis see an opportunity to kill large numbers of Pakistani civilians, leading to a civil war and balkanization, without them ever having to come directly on the front.

Well, that was the plan and we knew it all along, Murphey's law applied and it failed.

Moral of the story....target for our vengence is the real evil with deep pocket who's bankrolling the murder of our people...not Afghani hash addicts ready to strap a vest on.
 
If pakistan can conspire with afghan talib then afghan can conspire with pak talib.
 
This must have been a a suggestion by our neighbors on the east, considering in all these talks of Af-Pak policy after NATO forces leave Afghanistan, only the US, Afghanis and Pakistanis are in discussions leaving Indians out. Indians who have been quietly expanding their claws in Afghanistan under the so called hypothetical helping the Afghanistan development plan, would realize that they will be back to square one in 2014.
It's not as simple as that. If Pakistan thinks that Afghanistan is going to fall into Pakistan's lap and become another state of Pakistan, you're barking up the wrong tree.

You seem to have no idea whatsoever of what would unfold in Afghanistan after the US withdrawal. A little research and analyses on the subject would be the way forward.

A civil war will most likely break out in Afghanistan with clashing interests of countries like Russia, Iran, India, US, Pakistan, China, Central Asian Republics, the Northern Alliance and of course the myriad warlords and terror groups like the Afghan Taliban, all fighting for space and Afghanistan's spoils. Pakistan would be just a bit player trying to box above its weight.

If the PA and its adjunct the ISI think it's going to be a cakewalk after the withdrawal, they're totally out of sync with ground realities and clueless about the future geopolitical scenario in the region.
 
TTP bombs Pakistani cities

Mr Mehsud was the 'hook' between TTP and Kabul.

Americans disapprove of this 'venture', so no American dollars have been allocated for this.

Afghan govt has no money to provide support at this scale.

They contact Hindustan, Hindutvadasis see an opportunity to kill large numbers of Pakistani civilians, leading to a civil war and balkanization, without them ever having to come directly on the front.

Well, that was the plan and we knew it all along, Murphey's law applied and it failed.


Moral of the story....target for our vengence is the real evil with deep pocket who's bankrolling the murder of our people...not Afghani hash addicts ready to strap a vest on.

If what you say is true, and I am not saying it is, you are being overly optimistic in the bold part of your post
 
If pakistan can conspire with afghan talib then afghan can conspire with pak talib.
This is absurd. No other country has done what Pakistan has done for Afghanis. It allowed Afghan refugees to move freely in the country; offered them share in the economic activity without any tax. It provided food, shelter, education and medical facilities to them and it is now being repaid in shape of conspiracies against Pakistan itself. Even today all the major cities have a large amount of Afghanis, we never considered them outsiders and supported them. Despite the fact that they bulldozed our transport industry, controlled textile market and took a reasonably high share of food industry, not to mention smaller segments. It has costed Pakistan heavy on economic front by helping people coming from Afghanistan.
 
It's not as simple as that. If Pakistan thinks that Afghanistan is going to fall into Pakistan's lap and become another state of Pakistan, you're barking up the wrong tree.

You seem to have no idea whatsoever of what would unfold in Afghanistan after the US withdrawal. A little research and analyses on the subject would be the way forward.

A civil war will most likely break out in Afghanistan with clashing interests of countries like Russia, Iran, India, US, Pakistan, China, Central Asian Republics, the Northern Alliance and of course the myriad warlords and terror groups like the Afghan Taliban, all fighting for space and Afghanistan's spoils. Pakistan would be just a bit player trying to box above its weight.

If the PA and its adjunct the ISI think it's going to be a cakewalk after the withdrawal, they're totally out of sync with ground realities and clueless about the future geopolitical scenario in the region.


Look at the map for the South Asian region and tell me if you think India can get an influence in Afghanistan.

Think very carefully before you reply.
 
This is absurd. No other country has done what Pakistan has done for Afghanis. It allowed Afghan refugees to move freely in the country; offered them share in the economic activity without any tax. It provided food, shelter, education and medical facilities to them and it is now being repaid in shape of conspiracies against Pakistan itself. Even today all the major cities have a large amount of Afghanis, we never considered them outsiders and supported them. Despite the fact that they bulldozed our transport industry, controlled textile market and took a reasonably high share of food industry, not to mention smaller segments. It has costed Pakistan heavy on economic front by helping people coming from Afghanistan.

So what do you want the Afganistan to do or simply what do you want from Afganistan ?
 
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