US backs Indian effort to train Afghan forces

[S_O_C_O_M]

This no matter of joy or sorrow here. India training Afghan soldiers is no big deal. I am more concerened about how things are unfloding post US leaves Afgan.

The sky will be much clearer then. need to watch how Karzai govt handles its external afairs.

Its none of your concern.

When U.S. leaves Afghanistan will be under Pakistan control again or it will be an independent state free of Indian influence. Karzai is realizing this. Pakistan is too powerful now.

 

[Ahmad]

No offense brother, but if Afghanistan sides with India they undoubtedly will suffer at the hands of Pakistan. It cold hard facts.

Afghanistan might say yes to you, but that would be out of desparation not because they want you or love you.

 

[Ahmad]

Its none of your concern.

When U.S. leaves Afghanistan will be under Pakistan control again or it will be an independent state free of Indian influence. Karzai is realizing this. Pakistan is too powerful now.

if nato leave afgahnistan prematurely, afghanistan will be in a great chaoes, that will DIRECTLY afffect pakistan too as it is affecting it right now. things will get alot worse there as well, so dont pray for something that would hurt you as well.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

if nato leave afgahnistan prematurely, afghanistan will be in a great chaoes, that will DIRECTLY afffect pakistan too as it is affecting it right now. things will get alot worse there as well, so dont pray for something that would hurt you as well.

I'm only saying the reality of things on the ground. It will be a proxy war if India continues to exert its influence in Afghanistan. K.S.A. will be involved also. India cannot sustain its presence in Afghanistan much longer without adverse consquences.

 

[blain2]

Its none of your concern.

When U.S. leaves Afghanistan will be under Pakistan control again or it will be an independent state free of Indian influence. Karzai is realizing this. Pakistan is too powerful now.

And do we own Afghanistan? Yaar be sensible before making such careless statements.

Pakistan does not control anything or anyone. Lets realize that Afghans have been on the receiving end for the past 3 decades. Pakistan should help them out rather than bossing them around as is evinced in posts such as the one above.

I am well aware of the ground realities and fully understand that Pakistan does not want to see an unfriendly Afghanistan being prodded by India on one end and then also having to fend off India on our Eastern borders. However the only way this situation will be resolved is by way of building confidence with the Afghans by helping them out, trying to get over the mistrust instead of making wild claims about getting them under our shackles after the US leaves.

I cringe as a Pakistani when I read such colonial-minded hubris being spouted by fellow Pakistanis and at the same time if I were an Afghan, I would give the middle finger to anyone who makes such callous remarks. (Please don't take this personally as its not meant that way, but hopefully you get the point and agree with it too given us Pakistanis hate being dictated to and being bossed around by no less than a superpower and here we are doing the exact same to others).

Pakistan's strength is in having a peaceful Afghanistan that is amicable to Pakistan. The case of our relations with Afghanistan has a lot to do with our own approach to this whole affair. I will leave this off for another day. I don't expect India to not try to undermine us, but we make it easy for them by trying to boss around Afghans who really don't like to be bossed around.

This is the reality and the sooner all of us come to terms with it, the easier it would be. Afghanistan is landlocked and we are their biggest trading partner. No amount of Indian help will change the fact that Pakistanis and Afghans have shared religious, cultural, social and economic interests and these are the pillars upon which this relation needs to move forward and when it does, the security considerations will take care of themselves. Right now the security considerations are dominant and this is to our own detriment.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

^^^Did I say anything in my statment that Pakistan would not do, or what would not happen? Think about it. I am being candid and frank. Accept the realities of the ground, its not a perfect world.

 

[blain2]

^^^Did I say anything in my statment that Pakistan would not do, or what would not happen? Think about it. I am being candid and frank. Accept the realities of the ground, its not a perfect world.

SOCOM, I too agree that this is not a perfect world, however if history is anything to go by, the ground reality is that we have not been able to have a stable, middle of the road type government in Afghanistan that would be amenable to Pakistan.

The best solution is to have Taliban join a government of coalition so Pashtuns are well represented and the government is on good terms with Pakistan. There is no way for Pakistan to have it totally our way just because unlike the late 80s and early 90s, there are too many different countries watching this situation very closely and they will do their level best to make sure Pakistan cannot get the situation to its full advantage (in other words there are too many spoilers involved).

Our best bet is to work with Afghans to ensure that Durrand line issue and Indian planning and support for anti-Pakistani elements does not happen there. This can only happen if Afghans are given the space and the respect deserving a sovereign country/state.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

I'm not trying to be cynical but all control rests with:

Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha;

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

little bit off topic, but out of curiosity is Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha a Pashtun?

 

[Hindustan Fighter]

Thiis is good .. saves us time and money. They train the soldiers, we train the officers.

Afghan National Army Officers passing out of Officers training Academy

 

[Dash]

There are 2 threads goin on same topic.

@ MODS...

Please merge the threads...as its difficlut to engage in discussion.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Afghanistan is not some 'trophy' for anyone. It is a sovereign country.What concerns me the most is how Pak Army has just taken it for granted that they can musle into afghanistan simply because at some distant future they may require 'strategic depth'. Believe me, the reason why pak has to be kept out of the equation is because it has a vested interest in keeping that state weak. And without having a strong security force (which pak will do it's very best not have ), they just can't handle their challenges.
Let me ask my pak friends this.
Take a hypothetical scenario-
a) afhganistan has HUGE mineral and natural resources and within six months eight major corporations invest one trillion dollars and afghan govt is awash with cash
b) now flush with cash the afghans decided to improve their armor with:
(1) 2000 new T 90 battletanks
(2) 80 Brand new F 16 Block 60
(3) 8 Phalcon Radar systems
Won't you do EVERYTHING in your power to stop this? Hell you'll do everything in your power to stop even a quarter of this.

Drives home my point doesn't it? Pak have a vested interest in keeping afghanistan weak. What kinds of security partners will these people make? Won't they try to indoctrinate or influence the officers they train?

 

[Guynextdoor]

I'm not trying to be cynical but all control rests with:

Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha;

I don't know what you see but all I see is a a second tier military officer of a medium sized armed force heading an intelligence team.

 

[graphican]

Afghanistan is not some 'trophy' for anyone. It is a sovereign country.What concerns me the most is how Pak Army has just taken it for granted that they can musle into afghanistan simply because at some distant future they may require 'strategic depth'. Believe me, the reason why pak has to be kept out of the equation is because it has a vested interest in keeping that state weak. And without having a strong security force (which pak will do it's very best not have ), they just can't handle their challenges.
Let me ask my pak friends this.
Take a hypothetical scenario-
a) afhganistan has HUGE mineral and natural resources and within six months eight major corporations invest one trillion dollars and afghan govt is awash with cash
b) now flush with cash the afghans decided to improve their armor with:
(1) 2000 new T 90 battletanks
(2) 80 Brand new F 16 Block 60
(3) 8 Phalcon Radar systems
Won't you do EVERYTHING in your power to stop this? Hell you'll do everything in your power to stop even a quarter of this.

Drives home my point doesn't it? Pak have a vested interest in keeping afghanistan weak. What kinds of security partners will these people make? Won't they try to indoctrinate or influence the officers they train?

This is what you from the Indian side. For us, a stable, stronger and cooperative Afghanistan is in our best interest. We don't want unrest there as any unrest in Afghanistan can reach in Pakistan. Why would we want to have a weaker Afghanistan? We want them to be strong and Pro-Pakistan and that concludes our doctrine. Simple but I guess its too hard for Americans and Indian to understand.

 

[RescueRanger]

I don't know what you see but all I see is a a second tier military officer of a medium sized armed force heading an intelligence team.

that’s what you are seeing on the surface! There are things Google and Wikipedia don’t elaborate on.

Also Afghanistan knows why it needs Pakistan; in the long run they have to go through Pakistan... They know that and so do the Americans.