US ambassador 'killed in Libya'

[gambit]

I LOVE it when you lose it!



Yes. I read the entire article. What you are dancing around is the simple fact:

- NATO claimed that the bombing was an accident because its no hit list was out of date. NATO did NOT try to justify its actions by claiming the Chinese had lost their immunity status.

- NATO's explanation has been busted. The only way you can salvage NATO's credibility is to claim that the journalists are lying outright

- Since NATO's explanation is bogus, then the question becomes why was the embassy targeted deliberately. The Guardian also broaches that subject and reveals that NATO believed that the embassy had abrogated sovereignty. The Guardian itself makes no claim as to whether NATO's assessment was correct or a hallucination: it merely reports what NATO officers believed.

- Now here's the kicker. I will write it down slowly, so you can follow: If NATO believes the embassy had abrogated its privileged status, it is up to NATO to prove that claim. The fact that NATO doesn't prove its claims, and chickened out with a false cover story -- already busted by the Guardian -- means it is NATO which is at fault.

- I am fully consistent in that I believe both statements reported by the Guardian: a) the no-hit list was up to date; and b) NATO believed the Chinese were acting as rebro -- it doesn't mean the Chinese were guilty, only that NATO believed so and acted on that belief, without having the integrity to be up front and prove it.

Now, I look forward to your next dance routine.

The reasons why the Chinese government did not retaliate were:

1- It was an accident. Despite what that newspaper alleged.

2- The US government and NATO presented (in private) to the Chinese government electronic evidence of China's complicity and both agreed to a face saving measure of option 1.

Just as plausible as any news article, ya think?

It is funny as usual to see intellectual inconsistency and dishonesty in parade when it comes to the US. It is absurd for the US to make such a technical 'mistake'. Our bombs are always 100% accurate. We see and control everything. The CIA is everywhere. So if that is the case, and if allegations by unnamed 'officers' are sufficient, then why not NATO's official response, either it was a mistake or deliberate because of violation of neutrality, equally sufficient?

Of course -- not.

The way it works is that anyone can make any allegations against US, either personally or via some news sources no matter how dubious the credibility, and everyone here will jump on the bandwagon. But if any American here make any rebuttals or accusations of any kind for any subject, then we must bear the burden of absolute irrefutable proof.

By the way, I spent a couple years in the USAF in Signals Intel (SIGINT) before the career field was formalized.

1N5X1 - ELECTRONIC SIGNALS INTELLIGENCE EXPLOITATION

Conducts signals intelligence (SIGINT) activities and operations. Performs operator and analyst duties to exploit electronic intelligence (ELINT), foreign instrumentation signals intelligence (FISINT), and PROFORMA activities. Employs signals exploitation activities to support electronic warfare (EW) operations.

If there is to be any sort of faith in anyone's or anything's credibility, I will place mine in SIGINT's hardware over some unnamed sources any day. If NATO gave the Chinese government electronic evidence of China's complicity and violation of claimed neutrality, you can bet next year's salary that it contained very unique signal signatures and locations of transmissions known only to the Chinese technical experts. We are THE BEST in the world at this sh1t. If unnamed sources are sacred, then so are technical proficiency and secrecy to ensure success in war.

The lack of the Chinese government's response to such an attack on sovereign soil via an embassy is proof enough of China's silent admittance of guilt for those of us who know better. Your news article is hardly impartial and fair and that is what you were counting on.

 

[Thomas]

Silly rhetoric. The West has been the parasite on the rest of the world for the past 200 to 600 years since the discovery of the Americas. Today, USA represents the worst aspects of Western civilization. Muslims have been living in peace in China for a millenium.

Thats not true, China persecutes Muslims today while it's Muslim allies (and friends in this forum) turn a blind eye to it. If the US tried to pull what China does with the Uighur's it would be front page news with protests around the world.

Beyond Guantanamo: China's Uyghur Muslim Minority - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=TaWNIuboddw&NR=1

China curbs Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

 

[United]

could this be done by the old regime members?

if this movie was out since june/july the gov should have put a ban on it why dint anybody do anything about it?

stupid movie, why do amerkans want Muslims to hate them?

 

[Developereo]

could this be done by the old regime members?

Very plausible, especially given the date of the attack.

if this movie was out since june/july the gov should have put a ban on it why dint anybody do anything about it?

The US has fairly liberal freedom of speech, much more so than the rest of the world.

stupid movie, why do amerkans want Muslims to hate them?

Let's not generalize all Americans. There are extremist idiots in all countries.

 

[somebozo]

First fruit of liberating Libya..it will soon be governed by Taliban like gangs and US will find plenty of excuse to invade it.

 

[Thomas]

I haven't read revelation, so I will take your word that it doesn't. However, it is also a fact that many believers in the Rapture believe it to be so. Just where this comes from, I don't know.

Here's some interesting reading apropos.

Mano Singham's Web Journal: Jews, Israel, and the Rapture

There is much disagreement in Christianity concerning when the rapture takes place. Jesus touches on the subject in Matthew 24:3 - 44

One thing to keep in mind is Christianity was actually a sect of Judaism known as the way. It was Jews who followed the teachings of Jesus and believed him to be the Messiah. The Jews of the day looked for a Messiah that would deliver them from their enemies ( the Romans). Jesus taught that was not totally the case. It was more needful first that the messiah first come and redeem man back to God. He would take upon himself the sins of man past, present and future which was accomplished upon his crucifixion and resurrection 3 days later.

After his resurrection and ascension Christians now look to his second coming in which he will not be the sacrificial lamb that redeemed man. But the lion of the tribe of Judah who will save Israel when it's about to be overwhelmed by it's enemies. He will establish his kingdom here on Earth. But man will still have free will choice to decide whether to follow God or not. Though I doubt there will be many who do not believe in God after all that happens.

 

[SinoChallenger]

There is much disagreement in Christianity concerning when the rapture takes place. Jesus touches on the subject in Matthew 24:3 - 44

One thing to keep in mind is Christianity was actually a sect of Judaism known as the way. It was Jews who followed the teachings of Jesus and believed him to be the Messiah. The Jews of the day looked for a Messiah that would deliver them from their enemies ( the Romans). Jesus taught that was not totally the case. It was more needful first that the messiah first come and redeem man back to God. He would take upon himself the sins of man past, present and future which was accomplished upon his crucifixion and resurrection 3 days later.

After his resurrection and ascension Christians now look to his second coming in which he will not be the sacrificial lamb that redeemed man. But the lion of the tribe of Judah who will save Israel when it's about to be overwhelmed by it's enemies. He will establish his kingdom here on Earth. But man will still have free will choice to decide whether to follow God or not. Though I doubt there will be many who do not believe in God after all that happens.

Agree with the second paragraph but disagree with the part about Jesus and Israel. There is nothing in the Bible or Christian doctrine in general that says there has to be an Israel when Christ returns. Nor would the resurrection of mankind saved from death and sin necessarily be on this Earth. However, Christians do believe in the resurrection of the body.

Resurrection of the Body | Catholic Answers

In general, there is not much one can pin down in Christian doctrine about the exact nature of the last days and it's better to just focus on main message of Christ's life and teachings, helping the poor and needy in this life and wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour. Christians should not obsess too much with eschatology.

 

[idune]

The reasons why the Chinese government did not retaliate were:

1- It was an accident. Despite what that newspaper alleged.

2- The US government and NATO presented (in private) to the Chinese government electronic evidence of China's complicity and both agreed to a face saving measure of option 1.

You got to be amused when an indian dictates why and what Chinese govt did and should do. Show the proof from credible source of your 1 and 2 claims.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

I refuse to believe that a well-informed person like you doesn't know the finer details of the Rapture prophecy that forms the backbone of evangelical Christian support for Israel. The part where Jesus, upon his return and after disposing of the heathen armies, gives Jews the ultimatum to convert or else!

Of course, the prophecy is meaningless to those who don't believe, but that doesn't change the reality for those who do.

That was just one example; there are others.

Let's not go there.... Were we try to explain the geopolitics of today solely in light of obscure beliefs of certain Christian groups.

Because if we are... we might explain the violent outbursts we are witnessing across the Muslim World as part of a belief system that are held by these 'protesters'.

Isn't Jesus supposed to return according to Muslims, he will chase every pig on the Earth and kill them all with his spear, destroy the Cross, before battling the infidels? So these violent protesters may very well be preparing the ground work in his advance by trashing symbols of the infidels and killing them.

But nobody is explaining the latest outrage of Islamists in the context of their beliefs about the end of times. That would be just as absurd to do so.

 

[Thomas]

Agree with the second paragraph but disagree with the part about Jesus and Israel. There is nothing in the Bible or Christian doctrine in general that says there has to be an Israel when Christ returns. Nor would the resurrection of mankind saved from death and sin necessarily be on this Earth. However, Christians do believe in the resurrection of the body.

Have you read the bible or quoting a book or blog? There is plenty in both in old and new testament. Remember that the Messiah is refered to as the Holy one of Israel. He is descended from the line of David which God promised:


"your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever.'" In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan (the prophet) spoke to David.
(2 Samuel 7:4-5,12-17)

 

[RazorMC]

Yeah...Muslims in Western countries are being forcibly converted, accused of blasphemy, accused of defiling the US Constitution or the Holy Bible...Yup...The list of persecutions are long...Funny how muslims are migrating to where they are being persecuted.

Migration's due to economic reasons for the most part. It's the same reason

What you stated are looked down upon in our society (except for holders of a certain view... you know the one). But the difference is our condemnation of these acts (take the recent false-blasphemy case) whereas "freedom of speech" is a curtain to hide behind in the Western hemisphere.

How many Americans came forward and condemned this ignorant film-maker and his hateful production?

 

[RazorMC]

You nspeak of bringing in un-related topics and talk of "miniret bans"? what's that gotta do with this?

Minarets were banned under false assumptions. If it is not suppression then what is it?

 

[SinoChallenger]

Have you read the bible or quoting a book or blog? There is plenty in both in old and new testament. Remember that the Messiah is refered to as the Holy one of Israel. He is descended from the line of David which God promised:


"your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever.'" In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan (the prophet) spoke to David.
(2 Samuel 7:4-5,12-17)

I know my Catechism and my Bible fairly well. Nobody really knows what these ancient prophecies like Daniel's visions really mean and of course Jesus was born in Roman-occupied Palestine as a Jew. That said, Jesus plainly discouraged his followers from associate him with Jewish political bodies but emphasized that he is here to save mankind, even the Samaritans and the Gentiles. He is the universal ("catholic") savior, not just the King of the Jews as the Roman soldiers thought. Certainly in a Catholic Mass the priest would not be talking about the end times, quoting the Bible and interpreting how specific events like wars and famines was going to happen. The point that I'm making is not all Christians care about this "rapture" thingy -- you wouldn't find the Pope talking about it.

 

[gambit]

Migration's due to economic reasons for the most part.

And am certain they reported back to their countries that they are persecuted daily for their religion, that their young are being forcibly converted to Christianity and (gasp) Judaism, and so on...

What you stated are looked down upon in our society (except for holders of a certain view... you know the one). But the difference is our condemnation of these acts (take the recent false-blasphemy case) whereas "freedom of speech" is a curtain to hide behind in the Western hemisphere.

How many Americans came forward and condemned this ignorant film-maker and his hateful production?

You mean you missed the US SecState's comment condemning this guy? I do not watch much TV, have never seen a complete episode of the popular 'Friends' nor 'Seinfeld' sh1t-coms. I do not have cable TV. I have never seen the movie 'ET' and if you name ten movies within the last 10 yrs, probably nine of them I have never seen. In short, I am mostly ignorant of poopular culture. And yet, I have seen Fox News commentators shook their heads at and ridiculed this guy.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

You mean you missed the US SecState's comment condemning this guy?

Hillary Clinton might also want to update her comment on the 'few' that are on the rampage spree...

Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the Islamists? Final Stand - Newsweek and The Daily Beast