US $780m Afghan aircraft purchase 'wasteful'

[Penguin]

Hello Folks,

I believe as most recall Afghanistan had a pretty decent Airforce back in the 80s with variety of Aircrafts, I still remember the Mig21s and Mi24s flying over Kabul. Actually my uncle was trained in the Soviet Union as Mig21 pilot. Due to active combat the skills of the Afghan pilots were also decent, now of course most of those pilots are in their 40s so we need young generation of Afghans to be trained. They are actively training new recruits in Shindand and Kandahar with some being sent to the US and also UAE if I recall properly. I don't see any reason why new young Afghans pilots cant take care of these Russian aircrafts, with proper training and resources they should be able to fly and take care of the Afghan airspace as they did in the past. /Peace

One of the things that you always have to remember is the Iraqi air force was a very large, powerful air force for a long time. People often think that we're starting from scratch, and by all means we're not,” he stated.

The one-star said Iraqi MOD officials have been successful at getting aviators to return to the force. “Obviously the catch is the age of some of the aviators and how long has it been since they've flown,” he noted, adding the average pilot age is 38 to 40 years old.

Hoog cited the Iraqi air force's Mi-17 helicopter fleet as an example. There were many pilots operating before the March 2003 invasion. Since then 25 pilots have been hired back but now must go through a re-qualification course prior to flying again.

What Should Fly in the Iraqi Air Force?

To be chosen for the Blue Angels, a candidate must be a Navy or Marine Corps tactical jet pilot with at least 1250 hours of flight time. The average pilot's age is 33.

Blue Angel History | eHow

.

The average Air Force Pilot age in the US is 26 years

Air Force Pilot Salary | Averages, Ranges, and Starting

The majority of [F-16] squadron pilots is aged between twenty-five and thirty-two, which contrasts
sharply with the usual F-15E "Strike Eagle" communities having a higher average pilot age.

http://members.aon.at/aviationimages/31stfw-eng.pdf

 

[jhungary]

I have no experience in the Air Force but I did train some Afghani local force as part of my MNU duty......

Let me tell you this.

For a boot (recruit) to become a soldier, it takes 3 months (10 weeks)
For a Soldier to be effective, it takes anywhere between 12-18 months.
For a Soldier to be Specialise on something, it takes anywhere up to 36 months.
To train a commander (Not just a 2LT) to have him aware of his duty and his surrounding, and have him realise the command burden, it takes about 5 to 7 years.

Now that you can train a bunch, really a bunch of military qualified soldier who went thru boot camp/basic and does all the things as require, but the command structure is the one that you really need, without the command structure telling them what to do and where to go, those soldier are just wasted. Worse, they may do harm to their own Security Force.

I can only imagine air troop have a more vigorous regimes than the Army

 

[acetophenol]

@Aeronaut @That Guy : They have to start at some point,right? These guys start now,with some luck and help,they will be having a good airforce like in the 80's.

 

[That Guy]

@Aeronaut @That Guy : They have to start at some point,right? These guys start now,with some luck and help,they will be having a good airforce like in the 80's.

Yes, but baby steps. You shouldn't give a million dollar fighter jet to a rookie and expect him to be an expert. The force needs to be trained first, which they're not, then given the necessary equipment, doing this in reverse won't help anyone.

 

[Wright]

Lol they will be sold for scrap metal. Give them opium and RPGs and they will perform better.

 

[A-Team]

The question is what these new pilots will have to look forward to?
Because in their case they will be shouldering greater burden in terms of their families being targeted by the Taliban due to their stature as pilots. Moreover, it has to come with a stable Afghan government. The US has been able to pull off some sort of a system in Iraq where there is relative stability..in that environment a rebirth of its airforce may be carried out.

They look forward to defending the airspace of the country as any airman would do

The ANSF has been taking huge causalities over the course of 2013 but that has not deterred its ranks to defend the country against a group that's bent on taking the country back to stone age, remember Afghanistan has seen tremendous change over the last decade or so, there is no going back to the 90s period!

/Peace

 

[GR!FF!N]

Yes, but baby steps. You shouldn't give a million dollar fighter jet to a rookie and expect him to be an expert. The force needs to be trained first, which they're not, then given the necessary equipment, doing this in reverse won't help anyone.

they're not buying high end supersonic jets,do they??they're mainly buying helos and recently placed orders of ground attack fighters.It takes time to develop an air force,not to mention it takes decades just to formulate how to operate/use aircraft effectively and efficiently.all they need is a massive training program.USA doing good by taking Af recruits to the USA to train them.but they should establish similar kind of facilities in Afghanistan also,trained by Afghan instructors.

 

[That Guy]

they're not buying high end supersonic jets,do they??they're mainly buying helos and recently placed orders of ground attack fighters.It takes time to develop an air force,not to mention it takes decades just to formulate how to operate/use aircraft effectively and efficiently.all they need is a massive training program.USA doing good by taking Af recruits to the USA to train them.but they should establish similar kind of facilities in Afghanistan also,trained by Afghan instructors.

True, but my point still stands, the report is very clear that these helis are going to be a waste of money, because the pilots don't know how to operate them in their intended roles. For all intents and purposes, they'll just be sitting at base rusting away.

It'll take a long time for the Afghan forces to get caught up, so why not buy it then instead of now? It just doesn't smell right to me.

 

[GR!FF!N]

True, but my point still stands, the report is very clear that these helis are going to be a waste of money, because the pilots don't know how to operate them in their intended roles. For all intents and purposes, they'll just be sitting at base rusting away.

It'll take a long time for the Afghan forces to get caught up, so why not buy it then instead of now? It just doesn't smell right to me.

actually,they'll only learn when they'll face various challenges.how you'll train them how to think "out of box" if they never see action in battlefield??true,they're not professional as civil war simply destroyed their country.all they saw is Ak-47,RPG and pick up trucks.whatever training they got,they've to use them and have to fight with that.history showed that many battles didn't won by professional soldiers,but greenhorns who simply adapted in battlefield.Taliban isn't a formidable army,they're simply a bunch of loosers who knows how to perform a "hit and run".I doubt they'll ever win a battle against ANA face to face.but to get rid off them,they'll need expertise and experience what they can only gain in battlefield.

 

[That Guy]

actually,they'll only learn when they'll face various challenges.how you'll train them how to think "out of box" if they never see action in battlefield??true,they're not professional as civil war simply destroyed their country.all they saw is Ak-47,RPG and pick up trucks.whatever training they got,they've to use them and have to fight with that.history showed that many battles didn't won by professional soldiers,but greenhorns who simply adapted in battlefield.Taliban isn't a formidable army,they're simply a bunch of loosers who knows how to perform a "hit and run".I doubt they'll ever win a battle against ANA face to face.but to get rid off them,they'll need expertise and experience what they can only gain in battlefield.

There is a fundamental flaw with your theory, if they don't know how to actually use the equipment, how are they going to learn on the job? You don't start a job without going through training first, because without training you're worse than useless, you're a liability.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I have no experience in the Air Force but I did train some Afghani local force as part of my MNU duty......

Tell us all about it Sir. How would rate their discipline and eagerness to learn?

 

[jhungary]

Tell us all about it Sir. How would rate their discipline and eagerness to learn?

Their general eagerness is really off the chart, most people who joined really do want to contribute and rebuild their city and/or country. No doubt there are bad seed but I think the local command done a pretty good job screening them.

The only thing I would not sing their praise is the level of understanding, they learn stuff really slowly, probably because their weren't seriously educated and the first thing the local government taught them is to read and write before piping them thru military training, but I guess the local authority did not do a good job to provide literacy training to those personnel.

Given our level of education background, our level of readiness, our level of pressure (Which is lower) and given our training facilities (Which is SERIOUSLY inadequate over there) I think their grunt is of the same standard of any western troop, may even be better than normal US troop...

But then the real problem is not a normal boot, but the command, training a good commander takes time, but time is slipping away. Without a good command structure, it doesn't even matter if your company is full of Rambo.....

 

[That Guy]

I have no experience in the Air Force but I did train some Afghani local force as part of my MNU duty......

Let me tell you this.

For a boot (recruit) to become a soldier, it takes 3 months (10 weeks)
For a Soldier to be effective, it takes anywhere between 12-18 months.
For a Soldier to be Specialise on something, it takes anywhere up to 36 months.
To train a commander (Not just a 2LT) to have him aware of his duty and his surrounding, and have him realise the command burden, it takes about 5 to 7 years.

Now that you can train a bunch, really a bunch of military qualified soldier who went thru boot camp/basic and does all the things as require, but the command structure is the one that you really need, without the command structure telling them what to do and where to go, those soldier are just wasted. Worse, they may do harm to their own Security Force.

I can only imagine air troop have a more vigorous regimes than the Army

Just out of curiosity, were they a pain in the *** to work with and train? I've talked to a few friends that came back from Afghanistan and said that there were some really good guys, but most of the forces were lazy as shizznit.

The article mentions that it'll take about 10 years for the force to be fully prepared, that's a long time and I doubt they have the luxury of time on their side.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Their general eagerness is really off the chart, most people who joined really do want to contribute and rebuild their city and/or country. No doubt there are bad seed but I think the local command done a pretty good job screening them.

The only thing I would not sing their praise is the level of understanding, they learn stuff really slowly, probably because their weren't seriously educated and the first thing the local government taught them is to read and write before piping them thru military training, but I guess the local authority did not do a good job to provide literacy training to those personnel.

Given our level of education background, our level of readiness, our level of pressure (Which is lower) and given our training facilities (Which is SERIOUSLY inadequate over there) I think their grunt is of the same standard of any western troop, may even be better than normal US troop...

But then the real problem is not a normal boot, but the command, training a good commander takes time, but time is slipping away. Without a good command structure, it doesn't even matter if your company is full of Rambo.....

Thank You so much for this post Sir

I had the pleasure to meet a Captain who served as a trainer in Afghanistan. He told me that most of the recruits were usually high on Hashish or on something most of the time. Did you experience something like that?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

us trolled them