Upgraded interceptor missile to be test-fired on April 6

[AMCA]

Dear dear, firstly i never said that INDIAN BMD system will MAKE Pakistani ballistic missiles smarter, i will love if you can guide me to that part of my post so again, it was absurd that you read a post, jumped to a conclusion that it was regarding India and then felt obligated to reply without any facts. My point is simple, even though there are more and more advancements being made in the field of missile defense systems, the ballistic missiles are not something that are knocked out. MIRVs, wider range selections, the success rate of BMD systems are a few factors, just a very few.

It was very much in that context. Ok, let me come your way, agreed you did not say Pakistan missiles become smart with ever advancement in in Indian BMD system. You although did say that the "With more and more advancements in missile defense systems, the missiles itself are getting smarter and difficult to bring down" Now how does this really justify? MIRV's were introduced by the US only because they were the first to introduce ABM's right.. Moreover our ABM's have an exothermic kill vehicle that deploys pre-MIRV separation.

Now, not to present as a fact, just for an idea, there is a reason that ballistic missiles are still feared despite developments in defense systems, a reason why Israel is worried by Iran's developments in missiles despite having one of the best missile defense system. There is a reason the super powers still do not want competitors to develop ballistic missiles or to keep the numbers in check despite the defense systems.

Agreed.. Cant deny that.

Secondly, it is really good to have someone from India who openly admits "currently have threat only from our western border" rather then almost every other guy here claiming that all of India's military expenditure is China specific and they don't even consider Pakistan any more as a threat.

Anyway, my suggestion, please do not reply to some post based on the flag of the poster. The message may be entirely different, no need to jump gun...

China is not a lose cannon, it has a good productive economy to defend before it jumps the gun , unlike our western neighbor which has nothing to loose. Its obvious that you prioritize your defence according to the probability of strike despite how weak or strong the opponent is.

 

[Bang Galore]

. So no matter how potent ones missile defense system, it never can completely rule out a ballistic missile attack. Trust me, your planers know that very well.

While you make a valid point, it also does cause some uncertainty for the side relying on the deterrent of the ballistic missile capability. Kind of equalises the deterrence level on both sides.

 

[Arsalan]

It was very much in that context. Ok, let me come your way, agreed you did not say Pakistan missiles become smart with ever advancement in in Indian BMD system. You although did say that the "With more and more advancements in missile defense systems, the missiles itself are getting smarter and difficult to bring down" Now how does this really justify? MIRV's were introduced by the US only because they were the first to introduce ABM's right.. Moreover our ABM's have an exothermic kill vehicle that deploys pre-MIRV separation.

But still, they do not completely relay on that. It is not that they have stopped operating ballistic missiles or they are giving that technology to everyone. If we take US as an example, even then it shows that missile defense system do not means the death of ballistic missile technology. Just like SAMs did not stopped countries from inducting planes or electronic counter measures on planes failed to stop the developments in field of SAM. This is an ongoing evolution process and one thing is being encountered by the next.

Agreed.. Cant deny that

So we are in agreement in what i actually said in the first post. That pretty much ends the debate. Thankfully!! (no disrespect to you or the discussion but after all i am in office)

China is not a lose cannon, it has a good productive economy to defend before it jumps the gun , unlike our western neighbor which has nothing to loose. Its obvious that you prioritize your defence according to the probability of strike despite how weak or strong the opponent is

again, good to know someone who is openly admitting and not ashamed to say that the Indian military's developments are focused or at least partially directed toward Pakistan because the latest myth going around is that India is not slightly bothered by Pakistan and there military developments are China specific as Pakistan is already dealt with.
By the way your attempt to heat up the argument, AGAIN, by attacking Pakistan directly is ignored as i am not quite hopeful anything good will come out of that. Have tried it for YEARS and nothing comes of it.

While you make a valid point, it also does cause some uncertainty for the side relying on the deterrent of the ballistic missile capability. Kind of equalises the deterrence level on both sides.

it very much does indeed.

 

[AMCA]

But still, they do not completely relay on that. It is not that they have stopped operating ballistic missiles or they are giving that technology to everyone. If we take US as an example, even then it shows that missile defense system do not means the death of ballistic missile technology. Just like SAMs did not stopped countries from inducting planes or electronic counter measures on planes failed to stop the developments in field of SAM. This is an ongoing evolution process and one thing is being encountered by the next.

Sir, my question is still unanswered!! Although I would agree to what you have said above that ABM's dont stop enemies from inducting ballistic missiles but I would certainly point out that ABM's are a deterrent against the most probable strike.

So we are in agreement in what i actually said in the first post. That pretty much ends the debate. Thankfully!! (no disrespect to you or the discussion but after all i am in office)

Actually me too.. I would have loved to explain. But you have my respects!! I thought you are like the rest of my neighbors who try to let down any positive developments across the border..

again, good to know someone who is openly admitting and not ashamed to say that the Indian military's developments are focused or at least partially directed toward Pakistan because the latest myth going around is that India is not slightly bothered by Pakistan and there military developments are China specific as Pakistan is already dealt with.
By the way your attempt to heat up the argument, AGAIN, by attacking Pakistan directly is ignored as i am not quite hopeful anything good will come out of that. Have tried it for YEARS and nothing comes of it.

If at all India has any immediate thereat, it is from Pakistan. I have come across the statement many a times too,but, its obvious that they cant really ignore Pakistan.

 

[Ronin]

It's like one going into battle with a sword and a shield and the other with just a sword. Shields do not ensure complete safety - but is way better than the other option.

Besides, missile defense systems are a starting point which brings systems where future development in rail guns or even lasers can be incorporated into it.

Good example
Liked the way you put it

 

[OrionHunter]

once our BMD systems become fully operational, enemy nuclear missiles wont count for $hit

The only way an enemy can pierce these missile defenses would be for conducting a saturation attack, ie, launching several missiles simultaneously on a target which is impractical and not cost effective. There are hundreds of targets and therefore an enemy would need thousands of missiles for at least a few of them to hit the targets. Out of these, a number of duds will further bring down the probability of a successful missile attack!

 

[Arsalan]

May be you don't understand it better take debate on technical points rather just Assumptions

Guy above made point without doing technical analysis or research on the above Feild. he
Assumed without any technical data to back his BS claims that modern defense systems are partially successful on countering modern day BM's

He self decided that these systems are not-effective on countering modern missile threat without doing proper research &study on such highend technical Field.

a little bit of research on general ethics and Etiquette would have done a lot of good to you and the image you portray here in the forum
Instead of general attacks based simply on the flag of the poster, if you open up eyes and mind and try to understand what is being said that would have served you better. But you know what, don't bother. There is no point in debating someone who knows shit about a positive constructive debate and try to score cheap points by the disrespecting others and thinking that this will make you look good, well tell you what, it dosen't.
There is not point in saying it again because over the years i have learned a few things about your type but still, try going over the starting post again, not assuming that since i am from Pakistan so the post could only be anti-India. How knows if today is the day that will change your understanding.

 

[NKVD]

a little bit of research on general ethics and Etiquette would have done a lot of good to you and the image you portray here in the forum
Instead of general attacks based simply on the flag of the poster, if you open up eyes and mind and try to understand what is being said that would have served you better. But you know what, don't bother. There is no point in debating someone who knows shit about a positive constructive debate and try to score cheap points by the disrespecting others and thinking that this will make you look good, well tell you what, it dosen't.
There is not point in saying it again because over the years i have learned a few things about your type but still, try going over the starting post again, not assuming that since i am from Pakistan so the post could only be anti-India. How knows if today is the day that will change your understanding.

Firstly What Was your Purpose or Requirements of your Perception here on this Thread. Rather Deviating from the Topic of thread.Which Clearly you Did By Down Playing An Indian BMD Technical Achievement. It was Shadow Trolling you did there or Intended to Do in your Points Above.I Rather Be Admired if you Pitted More Technical Analysis in your Points Rather Taking it Simple.

As Think Tank I Was Expecting Great Amount of Maturity From you. Which you Clearly Failed to Show By Misusing you Moderator Authorities Above.Matter Ends Here.

 

[bloo]

even the most technological advanced countries with the most advanced ABM systems do not relay on the missile defense systems based on surface to air missiles.
This is not as simple as that. With more and more advancements in missile defense systems, the missiles itself are getting smarter and difficult to bring down. So no matter how potent ones missile defense system, it never can completely rule out a ballistic missile attack. Trust me, your planers know that very well.

Very true, today ABMs probably cannot provide complete deterrence and in case of saturation multiple attack scenarios it becomes even more difficult.
However, even if it provides minimum deterrence it still gives enough time to the Indian forces(in a Pakistan specific attack) to launch BMs and SLBMs to retaliate with full force doing more damage.
Maybe in the next 20-30 years we can see ABMs fly even higher and faster and proximity charges will probably become more deadlier and encompass more blast area.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir, my question is still unanswered!! Although I would agree to what you have said above that ABM's dont stop enemies from inducting ballistic missiles but I would certainly point out that ABM's are a deterrent against the most probable strike.

You see the ballistic missile defense systems are quickly being transformed into a mature system, specially the ability to engage during a wider range of ballistic missile flight trajectory is a major step forward. Still, the effectiveness against MIRV, independently maneuvered and targeting warheads is something that can be completely relied up on. This is the reason, as mentioned previously, it is an ongoing evolution process and have not reached a point where these can be said to have completely knocked off Ballistic missiles. The Ballistic missiles are still amongst the most credible deterrent. However i also agree with your point, in fact will add to it that ABM's are the most potent deterrent against the ballistic today. My point, from the very first post is that saying that one system have completely knocked down the other is NOT VALID.

Actually me too.. I would have loved to explain. But you have my respects!! I thought you are like the rest of my neighbors who try to let down any positive developments across the border..

you see, it is not that everyone is the same. MOST of the members here are students or busy professionals. Our first priority is do do our job and defence.pk is the second priority. IN busy schedules if someone is finding time to get online and say or share something, i guess it is mostly because people like to learn and educate. Not many people, in today;s hectic lifestyle will come online here just to troll. I guess if we ALL be a bit neutral and do not reply to some post keeping in mind from what country it was posted from we can all learn a lot more here. Was nice discussion and hopefully we will cross paths on some other thread again, i hope that that discussion will start on better footing however.

If at all India has any immediate thereat, it is from Pakistan. I have come across the statement many a times too,but, its obvious that they cant really ignore Pakistan.

Again, good to know someone being openly admitting to all this.

Firstly What Was your Purpose or Requirements of your Perception here on this Thread. Rather Deviating from the Topic of thread.Which Clearly you Did By Down Playing An Indian BMD Technical Achievement. It was Shadow Trolling you did there or Intended to Do in your Points Above.I Rather Be Admired if you Pitted More Technical Analysis in your Points Rather Taking it Simple.

As Think Tank I Was Expecting Great Amount of Maturity From you. Which you Clearly Failed to Show By Misusing you Moderator Authorities Above.Matter Ends Here.

Dear, lets try once more to get things straight and see if it helps. You need to re check all the posts to start with, i am not implying that this is not an achievement by Indian scientists or that this is a waste of resources. This is an assumption most of Indian members made only because i am from Pakistan. If you read again, i have in multiple posts said that it really is a good system to have as it gives the sense of security of the fighting forces. Missile defense systems is surely the most credible deterrent to ballistic missiles. However, implying that a missile defense system will knock out the Ballistic missiles and that if your adversary have ABM system then your Ballistic missiles are worthless and obsolete systems that that is not correct. This is all i have said in all the posts. UNFORTUNATELY, since i am from Pakistan so all my posts are assumed to be down playing India and the feeling work both ways, MOSTLY.

Also, bahi, i do not have moderation rights and have not edited context of any of the posts above.

 

[deckingraj]

Again, good to know someone who is openly admitting and not ashamed to say that the Indian military's developments are focused or at least partially directed toward Pakistan because the latest myth going around is that India is not slightly bothered by Pakistan and there military developments are China specific as Pakistan is already dealt with.

Allow me to butt in here....May be the message is getting lost on a bit of technicalities....If you look at some of our recent orders(right from planning to acquisition phase) you will get an inclination that the focus has moved towards China...now when we say focus has moved doesn't mean Pakistan is no longer a threat for us...Just to give you an example....After Agni 3 we don't need anything for Pakistan as far as BM deterrance is concerned...however our missile program is still going on with full throttle...we are desperately working on Triad...now do we really need that for Pakistan?? Nuclear Subs/MMRCA/Agni 5 etc all the big ticket items are very much keeping China in mind...now does that mean they will not be used against Pakistan...hell no...however had China equation not been there then perhaps active work on much of these weapons wouldn't have taken place....

Apart from that an active thread always looms from Pakistan side...Just look at the volatile borders we have....that's why AWACS were first deployed on this side....MKI's as well...same will be true with BMD...and for that matter all the top notch weapons first face our western border and then we start accumulating them in the eastern side...

 

[kṣamā]

Upgraded interceptor missile to be test-fired on April 6
Published March 30, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: THE HINDU

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If we all are done with beat thy neighbor can we just admire this beauty ... Just look at those deflector nozzles.

 

[$@rJen]

once our BMD systems become fully operational, enemy nuclear missiles wont count for $hit

BMD's are not 100% reliable... most probably 40-60 and enemy is not a fool to fire only the nuke mounted missiles.. decoys will also be fired

 

[Astra-2013]

The only way an enemy can pierce these missile defenses would be for conducting a saturation attack, ie, launching several missiles simultaneously on a target which is impractical and not cost effective. There are hundreds of targets and therefore an enemy would need thousands of missiles for at least a few of them to hit the targets. Out of these, a number of duds will further bring down the probability of a successful missile attack!

one more thing ABM fails only when your enemy is as advanced as you with huge R&D budget to counter any development in ABM or even for saturation attack......here india is at huge advantage vs pakistan.

 

[kaku1]

Firstly What Was your Purpose or Requirements of your Perception here on this Thread. Rather Deviating from the Topic of thread.Which Clearly you Did By Down Playing An Indian BMD Technical Achievement. It was Shadow Trolling you did there or Intended to Do in your Points Above.I Rather Be Admired if you Pitted More Technical Analysis in your Points Rather Taking it Simple.

As Think Tank I Was Expecting Great Amount of Maturity From you. Which you Clearly Failed to Show By Misusing you Moderator Authorities Above.Matter Ends Here.

Did you able to win a single argument against Pakistanis in your history of membership here?

Why you hitting your head on wall?

Bro, they are idols and gods of etiquette,. And how we poor Indians learn those things of rich people?