Upgrade of Pakistans Bell AH-1F Cobra helicopters

[forcetrip]

cobras are much smaller and have more maneuverability than the hind .. I like the hind for troop transport and special operations .. but even the super hind is sluggish for fast attack roles that are needed with insurgencies .. or so I say

 

[fatman17]

If relifing of TOW missiles is done, thats great,
But why to send these missiles to USA, as they may always retain a particular lot, on some pretext or the other.

BS is locally produced by KRL, why not TOWs are sent to KRL and they do the relifing.[/QUOTE]

dont have a answer to that - ToT perhaps!

 

[Blackpearl]

Talking of upgradation of current cobra helicopter of Pakistan Army, precisely we need upgradation in two areas
Avionics and Weaponry.

Now Cobra has primery weapon of TOW, which is a wire guided missile. Its maximum range is 3.75 km (because the length of the wire is 3.75 km).

The T-72 and T-90 are now able to fire Laser beam riding missiles 9M119 missiles through their 125 mm smmoth bore guns. The max range of the missile is 6 km. which means T-90 has a better stand off range then Cobra helicopter. Cobra has to first detect a threat, identify it prioritize the target, come to a hover and then fire the missile. At max range, TOW takes around 20 sec to reach 3.75 km range. I dont think a troop of T-90 would be so gracious to give to much time to cobra helicopter. T-90 missile will target cobra earlier then TOW hitting tank.

9M119 Svir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
125 mm 9M119 and 9M119M gun-launched missile round (Russian Federation) - Jane's Ammunition Handbook

So when talking of upgradation, anti tank missile is to be replaced with a better range missile. Pakistan should ask USA to provide TOW 2B aero having a range of 4.5 km. as its descendant of TOW family, it can easilly be integrated to present fleet of Cobra helicopters.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...uments/content/rtn_rms_ps_tow_2bdatasheet.pdf

 

[HAIDER]

Difference between tow and hellfire ? ...basically both were made for Cobra. But later hellfire get more popularity when start launching from Drone, plus accuracy. Don't know the accuracy of tow....

 

[Blackpearl]

Pakistani cobra can neither carry Hellfire nor it can be upgraded to carry the same, reason, weight of the missile. only twin engines cobras (whiskeys and Zulus) can carry Hellfire. Remember, Pakistani is an F model.

 

[blain2]

Talking of upgradation of current cobra helicopter of Pakistan Army, precisely we need upgradation in two areas
Avionics and Weaponry.

Now Cobra has primery weapon of TOW, which is a wire guided missile. Its maximum range is 3.75 km (because the length of the wire is 3.75 km).

The T-72 and T-90 are now able to fire Laser beam riding missiles 9M119 missiles through their 125 mm smmoth bore guns. The max range of the missile is 6 km. which means T-90 has a better stand off range then Cobra helicopter. Cobra has to first detect a threat, identify it prioritize the target, come to a hover and then fire the missile. At max range, TOW takes around 20 sec to reach 3.75 km range. I dont think a troop of T-90 would be so gracious to give to much time to cobra helicopter. T-90 missile will target cobra earlier then TOW hitting tank.

9M119 Svir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
125 mm 9M119 and 9M119M gun-launched missile round (Russian Federation) - Jane's Ammunition Handbook

So when talking of upgradation, anti tank missile is to be replaced with a better range missile. Pakistan should ask USA to provide TOW 2B aero having a range of 4.5 km. as its descendant of TOW family, it can easilly be integrated to present fleet of Cobra helicopters.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...uments/content/rtn_rms_ps_tow_2bdatasheet.pdf

Blackwater,

PA have a considerable inventory of TOW-2Bs and RF which are not wire-guided. Some of the recent ISPR footage showing Cobra strikes is of the Tow-2 RF rounds being used.

Hellfire would definitely be a much better weapon allowing for much greater standoff range and protection to the crews (range is almost 2x that of TOW).

 

[Arsalan]

what about the range and effectiveness of baktar shikan being fired from our cobras!
i didnt find any info on range particulary for BS being fired from air!
anyony one have some info on it??

regards!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

PAA is very happy with the performance of its Cobras - the only issue is the availability of the chain-gun ammo and the spares at the right time and place - so there is a lot of down time with the 39 odd Cobras in our inventory - the US supply chain is cumbersome.

wouldnt it make sense for the americans to provide ToT to AWC

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Can anybody tell me about the procurement of the 18 Eurotiger helis france?

 

[zagahaga]

i heard we are ghetting 18 25 hels from france
source wiki

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Zaga maybe ur taking about light attack fenec helicopters and 18 eurocopters if im corect the deal was signed few months back and it was aired on TV channels like goe,aaj,dawn news,express etc.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am damn sick and tried of PA begging cobras/apaches from USA beside constant refusal or dilly dally from USA. This has been the single most crippling deficiency for PA to pursue militants in FATA and swat successfully. These discussions are going on since Pakistan joined WOT but in vain, USA does not want to give apaches to Pakistan and cobras are already out of product and difficult to maintain. Why can not PA look for other alternatives like from european Tiger / Augusta 129 or Chinese variants. Is there any shame left in PA high ups for constanat refusals. from USA. This is really mind boggling....

We ask for US equipment becasue we have had a better relationship in dealing with each other, we don't have huge history of dealing fro anything with europe

After all , we qualify for US weapons under the Nato Ally program , so asking for Cobras or Apache is natrual choice and we are fighting the talibans for US, in joint fight vs terror

It only makes sense for US to give us 80 helicoptoers ASAP so we can make joint efforts more seemless

 

[Mercenary]

Apache Gunships are probably the best in the world but they are very expensive to use and operate. They are mostly designed to take out enemy armored formations and lay a curtain of fire on enemy battlefields.

They would be excellent in damaging Indian Armored Forces but not for combating the Taliban. Remember what happened to American Apaches during the Iraq invasion. They were heavily shot up. They are not good in combating Insurgents like Pakistan is doing in FATA.

Pakistan needs to go for Super Cobras as they are easier to repair, and maintain and then shift towards the Turkish, Chinese or South African Gunships. The Tiger and Apache are just too expensive for a country like Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Apache Gunships are probably the best in the world but they are very expensive to use and operate. They are mostly designed to take out enemy armored formations and lay a curtain of fire on enemy battlefields.

They would be excellent in damaging Indian Armored Forces but not for combating the Taliban. Remember what happened to American Apaches during the Iraq invasion. They were heavily shot up. They are not good in combating Insurgents like Pakistan is doing in FATA.

Pakistan needs to go for Super Cobras as they are easier to repair, and maintain and then shift towards the Turkish, Chinese or South African Gunships. The Tiger and Apache are just too expensive for a country like Pakistan.

Well apache are needed , ideally not only becasue of our Indian friends but , realistically when you are going up against a invisible enemy you need all the sensors, night vision , and tracking available to you and Apache is a sound answer -

I mean we are looking for a long term solution in this war on terror -
Our vision is not just Taliaban but ALLLLLLLLLLLLL forms of terror - so perhaps we could use the apaches for future joint operation world wide - if needed by UN ....

I think a long term strategic cooperation is needed between US and Non Nato Ally at this point instead of , media news articles ........

 

[Mercenary]

Well apache are needed , ideally not only becasue of our Indian friends but , realistically when you are going up against a invisible enemy you need all the sensors, night vision , and tracking available to you and Apache is a sound answer -

I mean we are looking for a long term solution in this war on terror -
Our vision is not just Taliaban but ALLLLLLLLLLLLL forms of terror - so perhaps we could use the apaches for future joint operation world wide - if needed by UN ....

I think a long term strategic cooperation is needed between US and Non Nato Ally at this point instead of , media news articles ........

The major operators of Apache (Israel, Egypt, Japan, England) have about 50.

For Pakistan, covering our vast Western borders, we need somewhere around 150-200 Gunships to effectively have air cover and provide fire support.

USA operates 741 Apache, the most that Pakistan can except is roughly 18-24 Apache Gunships.

I don't think that's enough to cover the entire region.

The Super Cobra has sophisticated sensors so that should be the interm option.

In the mean time, we should collaborate with Turkey and China to build Gunships locally.

India is already well on its way on producing indigenous gunships. We are making our own missiles, ships, submarines, tanks, air crafts, so why not Gunships.

Thats the option we should go for.