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Ukraine to Upgrade Pakistani T-80 Tanks: IDEX 2017 News

Number does countes 300 tanks can not cover whole area of battlefield with indian border. Remember shortage of equipment halted our offensive in 1965 because have to divert our forces from khemkaran to sialkot. Same applies now if we defence in sialkot and lahore and defences in rahimyar khan and further down in south what we gona left with forces on offence nothing so no offence. Remember offence is best defence. Defenders are all was on the mercey of aggressor

Formations using T-80 tanks are for attacking enemy, not for defensive war unless circumstances force it.
1965 is long gone. doctrines have changed and situation has improved for Pakistani armour.
 
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Formations using T-80 tanks are for attacking enemy, not for defensive war unless circumstances force it.
1965 is long gone. doctrines have changed and situation has improved for Pakistani armour.
Ok t80 are for offensive but what we gona have for defnce then
 
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Armour vs armour more better then ATGM. ATGM good only if better number of helicopters deployed with advance ATGM to beat modern armour
Yes, armour vs armour is good and yes a tank vs tank skirmish cannot be entirely avoided in war, its bound to happen throughout the war.

Armour is the main offensive weapon and in Pakistan's case, if PA MBT's encounter losses when pitted against Indian MBT's, PA will lose a major offensive capability when its time to make a thrust. This is why its better to engage enemy MBT's with Anti-tank weapons of all sorts and conserve PA MBT's to lead the way for attacks.
If PA armoured divisions start to lose tanks against IA armour early in the war, then PA divisions will go on the defensive for the rest of the war as they will be under strength.

Suppose an Indian tank force attacks, its best to lay out a defensive pattern of ATGM mobile or dug-in teams and Gunships and UCAV's on station and incur heavy losses on IA MBT's and repulse the attack with minimal or no loss to own MBT's. Then depending as situation arises ,use PA MBT's to flank the retreating enemy leading a counter attack. PA MBT's can also start taking out enemy Support arms like Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer, Supply etc which have limited anti-tank capabilities. Its best to exploit weak spots in enemy lines to use MBT.

Indian Cold start doctrine has been made for exactly this purpose:
1. Send in Armour and mechanised brigades deployed near border to engage Pakistan forces and incur maximum losses to Pakistan Army.
2. After a few days when the Indian Strike Corps is mobilised and reaches the border, it can easily sweep the rest of the already battered Pakistan Army and finish whatever fighting capability Pakistan is left with.

So the first strike (brigade level) will engage and exhaust Pakistan Army, the second strike will be three-four times more powerful (Corps level) than the first one and will put Pakistan Army on the defensive for entire war.

Therefore, Pakistan absorbs the first strike, countering IA MBT and IFV/APC with ATGM teams, blunting the Cold start attack. Then before the Indian strike Corps mobilises and reaches the border, Pakistani armoured divisions MBT's would be chasing IA and already crossed into India being on the offensive and dont even allow Indian Strike Corps to enter Pakistan.

India has more more MBT (T-72/T-90/Arjun) than Pakistan plus India has lots of reserve tanks to replace if it loses T-90's and T-72's. There are 1000+ Vijayantas and 500+ T-55 with 105mm guns. Pakistan already has lesser MBT in service than Inda and Pakistan MBT reserve are even lower, 300 M-48 and probably handful of T-55.

If PA MBT reserve is huge and tank losses can be replaced easily with modern tanks then its not an issue. Replace loss of T-80 with a T-80, Replace AK with AK, replace AZ with AZ and keep the momentum going.
 
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Yes, armour vs armour is good and yes a tank vs tank skirmish cannot be entirely avoided in war, its bound to happen throughout the war.

Armour is the main offensive weapon and in Pakistan's case, if PA MBT's encounter losses when pitted against Indian MBT's, PA will lose a major offensive capability when its time to make a thrust. This is why its better to engage enemy MBT's with Anti-tank weapons of all sorts and conserve PA MBT's to lead the way for attacks.
If PA armoured divisions start to lose tanks against IA armour early in the war, then PA divisions will go on the defensive for the rest of the war as they will be under strength.

Suppose an Indian tank force attacks, its best to lay out a defensive pattern of ATGM mobile or dug-in teams and Gunships and UCAV's on station and incur heavy losses on IA MBT's and repulse the attack with minimal or no loss to own MBT's. Then depending as situation arises ,use PA MBT's to flank the retreating enemy leading a counter attack. PA MBT's can also start taking out enemy Support arms like Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer, Supply etc which have limited anti-tank capabilities. Its best to exploit weak spots in enemy lines to use MBT.

Indian Cold start doctrine has been made for exactly this purpose:
1. Send in Armour and mechanised brigades deployed near border to engage Pakistan forces and incur maximum losses to Pakistan Army.
2. After a few days when the Indian Strike Corps is mobilised and reaches the border, it can easily sweep the rest of the already battered Pakistan Army and finish whatever fighting capability Pakistan is left with.

So the first strike (brigade level) will engage and exhaust Pakistan Army, the second strike will be three-four times more powerful (Corps level) than the first one and will put Pakistan Army on the defensive for entire war.

Therefore, Pakistan absorbs the first strike, countering IA MBT and IFV/APC with ATGM teams, blunting the Cold start attack. Then before the Indian strike Corps mobilises and reaches the border, Pakistani armoured divisions MBT's would be chasing IA and already crossed into India being on the offensive and dont even allow Indian Strike Corps to enter Pakistan.

India has more more MBT (T-72/T-90/Arjun) than Pakistan plus India has lots of reserve tanks to replace if it loses T-90's and T-72's. There are 1000+ Vijayantas and 500+ T-55 with 105mm guns. Pakistan already has lesser MBT in service than Inda and Pakistan MBT reserve are even lower, 300 M-48 and probably handful of T-55.

If PA MBT reserve is huge and tank losses can be replaced easily with modern tanks then its not an issue. Replace loss of T-80 with a T-80, Replace AK with AK, replace AZ with AZ and keep the momentum going.


Exactly we need deep ATGM -BAKTHARSHIKAN trench underground, tunnel bunker Systems which are maintained by Ranger in peace time.....
Yes, armour vs armour is good and yes a tank vs tank skirmish cannot be entirely avoided in war, its bound to happen throughout the war.

Armour is the main offensive weapon and in Pakistan's case, if PA MBT's encounter losses when pitted against Indian MBT's, PA will lose a major offensive capability when its time to make a thrust. This is why its better to engage enemy MBT's with Anti-tank weapons of all sorts and conserve PA MBT's to lead the way for attacks.
If PA armoured divisions start to lose tanks against IA armour early in the war, then PA divisions will go on the defensive for the rest of the war as they will be under strength.

Suppose an Indian tank force attacks, its best to lay out a defensive pattern of ATGM mobile or dug-in teams and Gunships and UCAV's on station and incur heavy losses on IA MBT's and repulse the attack with minimal or no loss to own MBT's. Then depending as situation arises ,use PA MBT's to flank the retreating enemy leading a counter attack. PA MBT's can also start taking out enemy Support arms like Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer, Supply etc which have limited anti-tank capabilities. Its best to exploit weak spots in enemy lines to use MBT.

Indian Cold start doctrine has been made for exactly this purpose:
1. Send in Armour and mechanised brigades deployed near border to engage Pakistan forces and incur maximum losses to Pakistan Army.
2. After a few days when the Indian Strike Corps is mobilised and reaches the border, it can easily sweep the rest of the already battered Pakistan Army and finish whatever fighting capability Pakistan is left with.

So the first strike (brigade level) will engage and exhaust Pakistan Army, the second strike will be three-four times more powerful (Corps level) than the first one and will put Pakistan Army on the defensive for entire war.

Therefore, Pakistan absorbs the first strike, countering IA MBT and IFV/APC with ATGM teams, blunting the Cold start attack. Then before the Indian strike Corps mobilises and reaches the border, Pakistani armoured divisions MBT's would be chasing IA and already crossed into India being on the offensive and dont even allow Indian Strike Corps to enter Pakistan.

India has more more MBT (T-72/T-90/Arjun) than Pakistan plus India has lots of reserve tanks to replace if it loses T-90's and T-72's. There are 1000+ Vijayantas and 500+ T-55 with 105mm guns. Pakistan already has lesser MBT in service than Inda and Pakistan MBT reserve are even lower, 300 M-48 and probably handful of T-55.

If PA MBT reserve is huge and tank losses can be replaced easily with modern tanks then its not an issue. Replace loss of T-80 with a T-80, Replace AK with AK, replace AZ with AZ and keep the momentum going.

Yes more Tanks and mass production of Baktharshikan !
 
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Yes, armour vs armour is good and yes a tank vs tank skirmish cannot be entirely avoided in war, its bound to happen throughout the war.

Armour is the main offensive weapon and in Pakistan's case, if PA MBT's encounter losses when pitted against Indian MBT's, PA will lose a major offensive capability when its time to make a thrust. This is why its better to engage enemy MBT's with Anti-tank weapons of all sorts and conserve PA MBT's to lead the way for attacks.
If PA armoured divisions start to lose tanks against IA armour early in the war, then PA divisions will go on the defensive for the rest of the war as they will be under strength.

Suppose an Indian tank force attacks, its best to lay out a defensive pattern of ATGM mobile or dug-in teams and Gunships and UCAV's on station and incur heavy losses on IA MBT's and repulse the attack with minimal or no loss to own MBT's. Then depending as situation arises ,use PA MBT's to flank the retreating enemy leading a counter attack. PA MBT's can also start taking out enemy Support arms like Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer, Supply etc which have limited anti-tank capabilities. Its best to exploit weak spots in enemy lines to use MBT.

Indian Cold start doctrine has been made for exactly this purpose:
1. Send in Armour and mechanised brigades deployed near border to engage Pakistan forces and incur maximum losses to Pakistan Army.
2. After a few days when the Indian Strike Corps is mobilised and reaches the border, it can easily sweep the rest of the already battered Pakistan Army and finish whatever fighting capability Pakistan is left with.

So the first strike (brigade level) will engage and exhaust Pakistan Army, the second strike will be three-four times more powerful (Corps level) than the first one and will put Pakistan Army on the defensive for entire war.

Therefore, Pakistan absorbs the first strike, countering IA MBT and IFV/APC with ATGM teams, blunting the Cold start attack. Then before the Indian strike Corps mobilises and reaches the border, Pakistani armoured divisions MBT's would be chasing IA and already crossed into India being on the offensive and dont even allow Indian Strike Corps to enter Pakistan.

India has more more MBT (T-72/T-90/Arjun) than Pakistan plus India has lots of reserve tanks to replace if it loses T-90's and T-72's. There are 1000+ Vijayantas and 500+ T-55 with 105mm guns. Pakistan already has lesser MBT in service than Inda and Pakistan MBT reserve are even lower, 300 M-48 and probably handful of T-55.

If PA MBT reserve is huge and tank losses can be replaced easily with modern tanks then its not an issue. Replace loss of T-80 with a T-80, Replace AK with AK, replace AZ with AZ and keep the momentum going.
Thats why i was saying that cant replace t80 fully with same numbers of t84 oplot but 300 t80 and plus 300 t84 make good numbers on offensive while put alkhalid and alzrar woth defensive formations but millitary planners know better than us here. Also defennsive formations will have ATGM artillary and air cover with hellicopters equipped with ATGM
 
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Yes, armour vs armour is good and yes a tank vs tank skirmish cannot be entirely avoided in war, its bound to happen throughout the war.

Armour is the main offensive weapon and in Pakistan's case, if PA MBT's encounter losses when pitted against Indian MBT's, PA will lose a major offensive capability when its time to make a thrust. This is why its better to engage enemy MBT's with Anti-tank weapons of all sorts and conserve PA MBT's to lead the way for attacks.
If PA armoured divisions start to lose tanks against IA armour early in the war, then PA divisions will go on the defensive for the rest of the war as they will be under strength.

Suppose an Indian tank force attacks, its best to lay out a defensive pattern of ATGM mobile or dug-in teams and Gunships and UCAV's on station and incur heavy losses on IA MBT's and repulse the attack with minimal or no loss to own MBT's. Then depending as situation arises ,use PA MBT's to flank the retreating enemy leading a counter attack. PA MBT's can also start taking out enemy Support arms like Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer, Supply etc which have limited anti-tank capabilities. Its best to exploit weak spots in enemy lines to use MBT.

Indian Cold start doctrine has been made for exactly this purpose:
1. Send in Armour and mechanised brigades deployed near border to engage Pakistan forces and incur maximum losses to Pakistan Army.
2. After a few days when the Indian Strike Corps is mobilised and reaches the border, it can easily sweep the rest of the already battered Pakistan Army and finish whatever fighting capability Pakistan is left with.

So the first strike (brigade level) will engage and exhaust Pakistan Army, the second strike will be three-four times more powerful (Corps level) than the first one and will put Pakistan Army on the defensive for entire war.

Therefore, Pakistan absorbs the first strike, countering IA MBT and IFV/APC with ATGM teams, blunting the Cold start attack. Then before the Indian strike Corps mobilises and reaches the border, Pakistani armoured divisions MBT's would be chasing IA and already crossed into India being on the offensive and dont even allow Indian Strike Corps to enter Pakistan.

India has more more MBT (T-72/T-90/Arjun) than Pakistan plus India has lots of reserve tanks to replace if it loses T-90's and T-72's. There are 1000+ Vijayantas and 500+ T-55 with 105mm guns. Pakistan already has lesser MBT in service than Inda and Pakistan MBT reserve are even lower, 300 M-48 and probably handful of T-55.

If PA MBT reserve is huge and tank losses can be replaced easily with modern tanks then its not an issue. Replace loss of T-80 with a T-80, Replace AK with AK, replace AZ with AZ and keep the momentum going.
As PAF is a defensive force then its most likely it won't be able to provide the required air cover to attacking PA formations. So no matter how many tanks u have they will be useless when attacked by IAF (CBU105) and their Atgm teams/ Apaches in Indian territory.
 
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As PAF is a defensive force then its most likely it won't be able to provide the required air cover to attacking PA formations. So no matter how many tanks u have they will be useless when attacked by IAF (CBU105) and their Atgm teams/ Apaches in Indian territory.

There are ways to get around it.
 
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Ukraine, Pakistan sign first contracts to upgrade Pakistani T-80UD tanks

Ukraine and Pakistan start the practical implementation of the agreements in defense industry aimed at expanding cooperation in armored vehicle production under the Pakistani T-80UD tanks upgrade program.

State-run enterprise Ukrspecexport said that at the 13th International Defence Exhibition and Conference (IDEX) 2017 (the United Arab Emirates), the top managers of the Ukrainian enterprise met with representatives of Armed Forces of Pakistan. Ukraine and Pakistan signed two contracts to overhaul first five T-80UD tanks of the Pakistani Armed Forces (a pilot project) and to supply 88 tank sights to Pakistan.

The contracts were signed as part of agreements confirmed in the memorandums of cooperation signed at the IDEAS 2016 (Pakistan) in November 2016 with the participation of Ukrainian Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak, the press service said.

The IDEX 2017 was held from February 19 through February 23 in Abu-Dhabi. It is the only international defense exhibition and conference in the MENA region demonstrating the latest technology across land, sea and air sectors of defense.

At the IDEAS 2016 International Defense Exhibition in November 2016 Ukrspecexport and Heavy Industries Taxila (Pakistan) signed a memorandum of understanding to expand defense cooperation in repair and modernization of armed vehicles of Pakistan. The agreements achieved envisage the $600 million defense contract for Ukrainian production facilities.


http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/407144.html
 
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there will be no defense in rahim yar khan.it would be suicidal.we will attack before india.there cold start is all about mobilizing quickly which they lack severely.our panzer attack on jaisalmer will send shick waves to delhi diverting forces from fazilka sector giving breathing space to qasoor sector.
here we bring our reinforcements from multan and stuck the crushing blow.

due to lack of Air superiority plat forms/jets I honestly doubt that we may even successfully implement such a plan in desert area. The first stage will be to repel Indian attack and the go for offensive but not deep like capturing jaisalmir.

due to lack of Air superiority plat forms/jets I honestly doubt that we may even successfully implement such a plan in desert area. The first stage will be to repel Indian attack and the go for offensive but not deep like capturing jaisalmir.

I have met with some Pak war veterans which confirmed that in previous such offensive Pak faced sufficient losses meanwhile Pak got more advantage while repelling Indian offensive in and around Sialkot/Chawinda area.

On topic it's a nice move to upgrade T80ud , may be we can bring them up to oplot standard then they shall be in better position to counter T90s. Further may prove to be economical later on if T80 oplot is inducted. In near future we may reserve Alzarrar tank for Afghan/Iran border defense.
 
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