Ukraine to nationalize Motor Sich, An-225 Mriya engine maker

[jaybird]

Varyag was an abandoned ship that belonged to the former soviet union. Ukraine had no means of completing it, nor did it have any need for such a vessel, nor did it have any sort of vital technology. For the Su-33, just because the fighter was sold, doesn't really mean anything, none of the fighter's blueprints were sold. China had to reverse engineer it, because it had no blue prints to work with.

Your comparisons don't work 1 to 1.

Perhaps, and considering Ukraine isn't selling, clearly they see some sort of benefit from not doing so. Nations make choices based on interests, not emotions.

Finally, some one who's honest with their answer.

Whether the Ukrainians were put under pressure or not, its very clear why China wants to buy it, despite certain members here pretending otherwise. The Ukrainians obviously evaluated the cost and benefit, and decided the costs of selling was too much, namely it would jeopardize its new found relationship with the US and EU, who've both helping Ukraine against Russia, as well as Ukraine's economy.

Beast actually give you the answer on first page post #12 video. All the information are from that video.

And the deal was already done and Ukrainian gov didn't object to it until later time and renegade to the deal by nationalize Motor Sich under pressure from the U.S.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Would China allow the sale of AVIC to another nation? Probably not.

If their products are worthless, then China wouldn't be trying to buy the entire company. Whether their products are good or not is irrelevant, what matters is that it is profitable, and has sensitive technology that they don't want another nation to get their hands on.

So why is China trying to buy the company, if its so garbage?

Never mind, don't reply to me from now on, I've told you before, I have no interest in interacting with you.

As a state owned company from the start, AVIC was invested in by the Chinese people for both its losses and profits. It is the responsibility of the entire Chinese nation from the start, and thus it cannot be sold.

Motor Sich is a private company beholden only to its shareholders who had their investment stolen. It is completely incomparable.

 

[That Guy]

Beast actually give you the answer on first page post #12 video. All the information are from that video.

And the deal was already done and Ukrainian gov didn't object to it until later time and renegade to the deal by nationalize Motor Sich under pressure from the U.S.

Regardless of the motivation, the objection occurred, and Ukraine does not want to sell. Its as simple as that. Beast gave financial reasons, I don't care about financial reasons, because this is purely a geopolitical issue. So far, I've only gotten 1 honest answer.

As a state owned company from the start, AVIC was invested in by the Chinese people for both its losses and profits. It is the responsibility of the entire Chinese nation from the start, and thus it cannot be sold.

Motor Sich is a private company beholden only to its shareholders who had their investment stolen. It is completely incomparable.

Ukraine wants to nationalize it, so your point doesn't really work here.

China can sue for those lost investments, these things happen all the time. Not a big deal.

Finally after 1 BIG ROUND, you agree its the recent US and EU pressure that is working against this WIN WIN transaction.
Finally an honest answer.

This sale though very beneficial to both sides, is NOT ESSENTIAL, so Ukraine just need to pay up.
Similar to the Vitorial Auto Plant is beneficial and good to have but not essential to Mercedes Benz.
.

I never disagreed with that pressure was involved. Motor Sich has sensitive military technology that the US, Ukraine, and EU don't want China getting its hands on. My position has been pretty straightforward from the beginning.

What I disagreed on was the financial reasons why people kept replying to me about. I couldn't care less about that. Beast even said the loss of investment was reason enough for China to invade Ukraine, how am I supposed to take that seriously? One guy even called it terrorism. There was also this nonsense talk about China only being interested in the production line, where not a single person was able to give a valid reason as to why China would spend billions over 1 single production line for an engine that China supposedly barely uses.

 

[casual]

Regardless of the motivation, the objection occurred, and Ukraine does not want to sell. Its as simple as that. Beast gave financial reasons, I don't care about financial reasons, because this is purely a geopolitical issue. So far, I've only gotten 1 honest answer.

Ukraine wants to nationalize it, so your point doesn't really work here.

China can sue for those lost investments, these things happen all the time. Not a big deal.

I never disagreed with that pressure was involved. Motor Sich has sensitive military technology that the US, Ukraine, and EU don't want China getting its hands on. My position has been pretty straightforward from the beginning.

What I disagreed on was the financial reasons why people kept replying to me about. I couldn't care less about that. Beast even said the loss of investment was reason enough for China to invade Ukraine, how am I supposed to take that seriously? One guy even called it terrorism. There was also this nonsense talk about China only being interested in the production line, where not a single person was able to give a valid reason as to why China would spend billions over 1 single production line for an engine that China supposedly barely uses.

there you said it yourself. you couldn't care about the financial reasons. but guess what, the chinese company that made the bid does. so there's nothing to talk about.

 

[T-SaGe]

The last visit to Ankara by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy confirms Ukraine's desire to become a strategic partner of Turkey. Both sides noted the importance of cooperation in the military sphere, especially in such areas as turboprop and diesel engines, turbine engines and naval ships, avionics, developing of military drones, anti-ship and cruise missiles, radars and surveillance technologies, robotics, and rocket engines. At the same time, the Turkish president is personally interested in the acquisition of Motor Sich.

Meanwhile, it is not yet known how Kiev intends to transfer the enterprise to Turkey, since the shares of Motor Sich de facto already belong to a group of investors from China, they are simply seized. Also unknown is the US reaction to the future transfer of the enterprise to the Turks. Probably, a JV method such as Black Sea Shield, founded in partnership with Ivchenko Progress, or Lodos Propulsion, established in partnership with Zorya-Mashproekt, could be tried. To overcome the US barrier for Motor Sich's funding and accumulation to become international, Chinese side, the Ukrainian side, and the Turkish side can work on a triple formula.

 

[Path-Finder]

I guess China can offer all the staff at that plant higher wages and they will automatically flock to work for China. Bit like how the yanks have been doing for skilled people for a long time.

 

[Beast]

I guess China can offer all the staff at that plant higher wages and they will automatically flock to work for China. Bit like how the yanks have been doing for skilled people for a long time.

They have already done that with most of the capable staff hired... Ever known the reason why this company keep losing money and losing competitiveness. Those still there are old and worst worker.

 

[T-SaGe]

There is one thing that should not be forgotten: These companies were largely attached to the Russian defense industry. There was such a structure in the supply chain, and the primary user of these companies was the Russian defense ministry.

Following the occupation of the eastern part of the country and Crimea, It caused not only the important cities were captured by the separatists: At the same time, the Ukrainian heavy industry and related engineering activities were felt into deadlock.

To overcome the problem, Ukraine chose to align its existing military and aerospace production capabilities with western standards. Note that the new projects, especially Antonov, anticipate intensive integration with western suppliers. Turkish companies, especially Aselsan, will also play a critical role in this process. On the other hand, the potential market for these new products will be predominantly western users with infrastructure of these standards.

So the political problem with Motor Sich's inability to be transferred to China is not as superficial as you discuss here. The developments in the whole building are progressing in an articulation with each other. So the sale of Motor Sich is also indirectly related, to the healty future of Antonov's AN188 project for example.

 

[maithil]

Sensible move.

 

[Path-Finder]

They have already done that with most of the capable staff hired... Ever known the reason why this company keep losing money and losing competitiveness. Those still there are old and worst worker.

sounds like HAL

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Motor sich is sick, but no one cares enough to save it.

 

[That Guy]

there you said it yourself. you couldn't care about the financial reasons. but guess what, the chinese company that made the bid does. so there's nothing to talk about.

What is your point? This has nothing to do with anything? Chinese investors may be upset, and they have the right to sue for lost investments. Having said that, that is still not reason enough for Ukraine to allow selling of the company.

 

[Beast]

What is your point? This has nothing to do with anything? Chinese investors may be upset, and they have the right to sue for lost investments. Having said that, that is still not reason enough for Ukraine to allow selling of the company.

Your statement is valid until Ukraine can gurantee pay back the money invested to Chinese for nationalize motor sich.

You have yet to reply me Ukraine has promised to pay back Chinese money or willing to foot compensate with any statement from Ukraine side.

All is your wishful thinking Ukraine will act rational and according what international law stated. These Ukrainian try to play jungle law and we will give them one.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

So the sale of Motor Sich is also indirectly related, to the healty future of Antonov's AN188 project for example.

An-188 is not a plane a small country like Ukraine can make. It would take a serious super power to make such a plane. It's similar to Y-20. Hell, even Russia can't make a large transport plane these days.

 

[casual]

What is your point? This has nothing to do with anything? Chinese investors may be upset, and they have the right to sue for lost investments. Having said that, that is still not reason enough for Ukraine to allow selling of the company.

What are you looking for? Reason for China to buy or reason for ukraine to sell? Chinese company wants to buy because motor sich can be profitable as a Chinese company. Ukraine want to sell because without Chinese orders, the company would go bankrupt. Yes, I know the ukrainian gov nationalized. Now it is up to the ukrainian tax payers to keep its lights on. Go ahead, argue this is not the case.