UK Outsources Torture to Pakistan

[TruthSeeker]

I post the following only to make the point to all the irhabi-sympathizers here on the PDF who constantly rail about abu Ghraib and Guantanamo: let he who is without sin cast the first stone......

Al Jazeera English - AJE

Davis says the British government let Pakistan's ISI arrest and torture Ahmed

A British opposition politician has accused the government and intelligence agencies of colluding in the torture of a British terrorism suspect whose interrogation was "outsourced" to Pakistan.

David Davis, a Conservative MP, said the government had helped set up the torture and abuse of suspect Rangzieb Ahmed at the hands of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI).

"A more obvious case of outsourcing of torture, a more obvious case of passive rendition, I cannot imagine," Davis, a former spokesman on home affairs issues, told parliament late on Monday, according to the Press Association.

The government dismissed Davis's accusations, saying he was presenting unsubstantiated allegations as fact.

Ivan Lewis, the foreign office minister, said the government was clear in its opposition to torture.

"It is an abhorrent crime and we are fundamentally opposed to it. That principle guides all the government's work, including the intelligence services and the armed forces," Lewis said.

UK 'complicity'

Ahmed, a British national, was allowed to travel to Pakistan in 2006, even though he was suspected of involvement in terrorism offences and was under surveillance by British police.

The ISI was alerted, Davis said, and its agents detained Ahmed, who was beaten and tortured, including having three of his fingernails extracted during 13 months in custody.

British agents also questioned him during that time and supplied questions to the ISI for the interrogations, Davis said.

"He should have been arrested by the UK in 2006. He was not. The authorities knew that he intended to travel to Pakistan, so they should have prevented that. Instead, they suggested the ISI arrest him.

"They knew he would be tortured, and they organised to construct a list of questions and provide it to ISI," Davis said.

Ahmed was eventually returned to Britain and jailed for life last year after being found guilty of membership of al-Qaeda and directing a terrorist cell. He is currently appealing his conviction.

 

[qsaark]

I post the following only to make the point to all the irhabi-sympathizers here on the PDF who constantly rail about abu Ghraib and Guantanamo

Neither all of those who rail about abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are "irhabi-sympathizers" nor all of those who were captured and detained in abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were/are terrorists. Please avoid generalizing to a level where your words lose their significance and you as a member of this forum lose respect.

 

[TruthSeeker]

"who constantly rail"

Qsaark, note the definition of "rail": To express objections or criticisms in bitter, harsh, or abusive language.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[fhassan]

let he who is without sin cast the first stone......

Interesting formulation.

Who said that?

What do you as a Christian derive from it?

Do you base much of your understanding about God, the message of Jesus (upon him be peace) and how to live your life on this verse?

For me personally, it is a nice metaphor for not judging others whilst being defective yourself. In essence, we should be more humble.

Purely fruitless in the real world of course, if we were to implement it in a real court of law. Spiritually however, it has a beauty to it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Do you base much of your understanding about God, the message of Jesus (upon him be peace) and how to live your life on this verse?

For me personally, it is a nice metaphor for not judging others whilst being defective yourself. In essence, we should be more humble.

Purely fruitless in the real world of course, if we were to implement it in a real court of law. Spiritually however, it has a beauty to it.

fhassan, I am sure you know the Teacher to whom this saying is attributed. It is one of several teachings on interpersonal dealings and relationships. I would say that it is a "caution" one should think of when engaged in judging others, not an ironclad rule of Allah. It is meant to stay the hand of injustice, but not to eliminate justice. Many of this Teacher's lessons are seemingly impractical, i.e. very difficult to follow faithfully and completely in one's life. Still, in making the effort, and sometimes succeeding, one may become a more fulfilled human being.

 

[fhassan]

***Lecture removed***

 

[TruthSeeker]

fhassan, Sir,

I think that if you want to have a discussion about the falsities of my Christian faith, you should start a new thread with that as the subject. I would like to point out that I am forbidden by the moderators of this forum to raise similar questions about the Quran and Islam. I hope you have a sense of fairness in such matters. I am not permitted to offend the sensitivities of Muslims here at the PDF by making such claims or points as you have in your above post, about your faith, Islam, it's Holy book or its Prophet. So, please do not use your "favored" status here to make such challenges to my faith. Do not treat me as a Dhimmi, please. We already had that discussion. Here I am not allowed to post something similar to what you have posted, about Islam. I could, if allowed and motivated to do so, post equally controversial writings about your faith. Please believe, however, that I do not want to cause you the same pain and frustration that your post causes me.

 

[fhassan]

Please believe, however, that I do not want to cause you the same pain and frustration that your post causes me.

Granted

Please accept my apologies, my post was completely uncalled for and off-topic.

I have taken the liberty to remove it altogether.