UAE and Qatar Officially Join the US War in Afghanistan

[Saif al-Arab]

Brother, you do a great job exposing these hypocrits

The most funniest is that hypocrit Erdogan supporter. His own master is in beds with the Israelis yet he talks complete horseshit behind his computer in his comfy home in Germany.

I deal with every troll on PDF. Too much time was wasted on them. This thread is another perfect example of a troll invasion being successfully countered by me. The trolls are unable to reply or countering even a single fact. Left embarrassed to troll for another day.

It's so easy to expose those clowns.

BTW, I have nothing against Indians but I do believe that this @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan is a false-flagger troll and since he claimed to be an Mughal descendent (as well as having Arab, Persian and Turkic ancestry on other occasions, lol) he is more Indian than Pakistani and at the same time he has insulted Indians and India many times here on PDF. Schizophrenic behavior or he suffers from the Stockholm syndrome. All while Pakistan hosts a large number of Muhajir immigrants originally from India and most of the Pakistani population (Punjabis and Sindhis) having close cultural and ancestral ties to populations in Western India. In fact there is little difference expect for religion (not even always) and dialects/linguistic differences.

Even the father of the nation of Pakistan was of Gujarati (India) origin.

The Timur guy, while being Arabized on many fronts in his daily life, is obsessing about Arabs as well. As was the case (even more so) with the past dynasties that he worships. A funny world indeed.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I deal with every troll on PDF. Too much time was wasted on them. This thread is another perfect example of a troll invasion being successfully countered by me. The trolls are unable to reply or countering even a single fact. Left embarrassed to troll for another day.

It's so easy to expose those clowns.

BTW, I have nothing against Indians but I do believe that this @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan is a false-flagger troll and since he claimed to be an Mughal descendent (as well as having Arab, Persian and Turkic ancestry on other occasions, lol) he is more Indian than Pakistani and at the same time he has insulted Indians and India many times here on PDF. Schizophrenic behavior or a Stockholm Syndrome. All while Pakistan hosts a large number of Muhajir immigrants originally from India and most of the Pakistani population (Punjabis and Sindhis) having close cultural and ancestral ties to populations in Western India. In fact there is little difference expect for religion (not even always) and dialects/linguistic differences.

Even the father of the nation of Pakistan was of Gujarati (India) origin.

The Timur guy, while being Arabized on many fronts in his daily life, is obsessing about Arabs as well. A funny world indeed.

Don't speak for Punjabis, or Sindis. Pakistan region is complicated for outsiders to understand. Too much of a mix and mash.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Don't speak for Punjabis, or Sindis. Pakistan region is complicated for outsiders to understand. Too much of a mix and mash.

I don't need to speak for anyone when stating facts. A large number of Pakistani users here on PDF have ancestral origins in India. Even 2 moderators if I am not wrong. They have written about this openly here on PDF and even some have told this to me here.

That Punjabis (speaking about Afghans, the same Afghans when trying to tease Pakistanis call Punjabis or Pakistanis for Indians) of Pakistan are the dominating ethnic and cultural group. Punjabis also live across the 71 year old border. Many Punjabis (Muslim) migrated to Pakistan from India and many Punjabi Hindus migrated from Pakistan to India. There is no difference between people in Lahore and people across the border in India. Sindhis are very similar to neighboring Gujaritis as well. I know because a few Sindhis have told me myself and I grew up with South Asians from all ethnic groups and countries in the GCC as every imaginable group is present.

The father of Pakistan (Muhammad Ali Jinnah) was himself of Gujarati origins as well.

I don't know why some Pakistanis are trying to deny those connections due to political hostility between Pakistan and India. That would be like if Saudi Arabians tried to deny ties with neighboring nations and regions whether it be Iraq, Jordan, Syria (Sham in general), Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman, Iran, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait etc.

Of course I am ready to be educated if I am a completely wrong and if what I have read and been told is totally wrong. I am indeed not from Pakistan so far from an expert.

Anyway this is off-topic. I was more worried about exposing the usual anti-Arab trolls that were spreading nonsense in this thread. Mission accomplished.

Also I am not very fond of false-flagging trolls like this @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Arab-obsessed and hypocritical troll that has been exposed a few times already yet continues to troll 24/7.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I don't need to speak for anyone when stating facts. A large number of Pakistani users here on PDF have ancestral origins in India. Even 2 moderators if I am not wrong. They have written about this openly here on PDF and even some have told this to me here.

That Punjabis (speaking about Afghans, the same Afghans when trying to tease Pakistanis call Punjabis or Pakistanis for Indians) of Pakistan are the dominating ethnic and cultural group. Punjabis also live across the 71 year old border. Many Punjabis (Muslim) migrated to Pakistan from India and many Punjabi Hindus migrated from Pakistan to India. There is no difference between people in Lahore and people across the border in India. Sindhis are very similar to neighboring Gujaritis as well. I know because a few Sindhis have told me myself and I grew up with South Asians from all ethnic groups and countries in the GCC as every imaginable group is present.

The father of Pakistan (Muhammad Ali Jinnah) was himself of Gujarati origins as well.

I don't know why some Pakistanis are trying to deny those connections due to political hostility between Pakistan and India. That would be like if Saudi Arabians tried to deny ties with neighboring nations and regions whether it be Iraq, Jordan, Syria (Sham in general), Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman, Iran, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait etc.

Of course I am ready to be educated if I am a completely wrong and if what I have read and been told is totally wrong. I am indeed not from Pakistan so far from an expert.

Anyway this is off-topic. I was more worried about exposing the usual anti-Arab trolls that were spreading nonsense in this thread. Mission accomplished.

Also I am not very fond of false-flagging trolls like this @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Arab-obsessed and hypocritical troll that has been exposed a few times already yet continues to troll 24/7.

I'm not interested in providing a detailed lesson, but punjabis identify with biradiris/clans or you can say tribes. Punjabi is a geographic term and certainly a language more so than an actual ethnicity. Different biradiris in Punjab are Arains, Awans, Jatts, Gujjars, Rajputs, and then hundreds of smaller ones. It would be grossly irresponsible to say that even punjabis from Pakistan are the same, let alone the ones from across the border.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I'm not interested in providing a detailed lesson, but punjabis identify with biradiris/clans or you can say tribes. Punjabi is a geographic term and certainly a language more so than an actual ethnicity. Different biradirs in Punjab are Arains, Awans, Jatts, Gujjars, Rajputs, and then hundreds of smaller ones. It would be grossly irresponsible to say that even punjabis from Pakistan are the same, let alone the ones from across the border.

I am quite sure that if you went to Lahore and took a DNA test of the average person there and went across the border to next door India, there would be little if any difference between the people. That is also why Pakistanis and Indians cluster with each other more than Pakistanis do with say Middle Easterners with the exception of Baloch people I believe who I believe are identical across the border in Iran as well.





I am quite sure that Central Indians are somewhere between South Indians and Pakistanis and Northwestern Indians are quite close to Pakistanis on such a graph. Even Pakistani Pashtuns have almost 30% South Indian DNA on average as per those DNA tests above.

Just like Pashtuns in KP are identical to Pashtuns in Jalalabad across the border in Afghanistan.

Okay, not the same but overall very similar? I don't think that anyone can argue against that. It would make no sense if that was not the case.

I am not saying that Pakistani Punjabis are similar to Indians from Tamil Nadu or Bihar or Calcutta, lol.

What about Sindhis? Are there no ties across the border there?

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I am quite sure that if you went to Lahore and took a DNA test of the average person there and went across the border to next door India, there would be little if any difference between the people. That is also why Pakistanis and Indians cluster with each other more than Pakistanis do with say Middle Easterners with the exception of Baloch people I believe who I believe are identical across the border in Iran as well.

Just like Pashtuns in KP are identical to Pashtuns in Jalabad across the border.

Okay, not the same but overall very similar? I don't think that anyone can argue against that. It would make no sense if that was not the case.

I am not saying that Pakistani Punjabis are similar to Indians from Tamil Nadu or Bihar or Calcutta.

What about Sindhis? Are there no ties across the border there?

There is no Sindh in India. Only Sindhi Hindus that migrated there. Also regarding Punjabis, it's a mix and mash like I said. Apart from Gujjars, Rajputs and Jatts, none of the other biradiris exist in Indian Punjab. Of course we are mixed with indigenous population, but then that really nullifies the DNA test. We have a patriarchal society so that means if I marry a Japanese woman and have children with her, my children will still be considered Arains. Genetically that would dilute any such test. Anyways, like I said it is too complicated for outsiders to understand our region. Just stick to MENA.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

There is no Sindh in India. Only Sindhi Hindus that migrated there. Also regarding Punjabis, it's a mix and mash like I said. Apart from Gujjars, Rajputs and Jatts, none of the other biradiris exist in Indian Punjab. Of course we are mixed with indigenous population, but then that really nullifies the DNA test. We have a patriarchal society so that means if I marry a Japanese woman and have children with her, my children will still be considered Arains. Genetically that would dilute any such test. Anyways, like I said it is too complicated for outsiders to understand our region. Just stick to MENA.

I know that you are a Pakistani patriot (I admire this as I am a Saudi Arabian, Iraqi and Arab patriot myself) but I do believe that you are a bit blinded by the political atmosphere between Pakistan and India and the existing hostility. This is similar to the Arabs and Iranians that deny that regions next door have no ties when the REAL native Persians from Southern Iran (not the Persianized lot in the North who are mostly of Caucasian, Kurdish and Turkic ancestry etc.) but are very similar to Arabians across the pond on many fronts and people to people intermarriages having taking place since before Islam. It would be idiotic for me to deny those ties because of hostilities since 1979. It would be similar to Iranians denying the great impact Arabs had on Iran on most fronts or the tremendous pre-Islamic influences from us Semitic people that reached pre-Islamic Iran when they first emerged in history some 2600 years ago.

Bro, I don't know where you are from in Punjab (some 100 million people live there) but I have Pakistani Punjabi friends who have told me in person that they migrated from Indian Punjab to Pakistan but they are full-blooded Punjabis and nobody can see on their appearance that they are not Pakistani Punjabis. Similar to Baloch in Pakistan and Iran. Do you think there is a huge difference?

Or between people who live in Northern Gujarat and Southern Sindh across the border? Or people in Lahore etc.?

I suppose that every Pakistani (depending on political ideology and sentiments) have different views about this topic because I have seen many of your compatriots saying what I am saying openly here on PDF.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I know that you are a Pakistani patriot (I admire this as I am a Saudi Arabian, Iraqi and Arab patriot myself) but I do believe that you are a bit blinded by the political atmosphere between Pakistan and India and the existing hostility. This is similar to the Arabs and Iranians that deny that regions next door have no ties when the REAL native Persians from Souther Iran are very similar to Arabians across the pond on many fronts and people to people intermarriages having taking place since before Islam. It would be idiotic for me to deny those ties because of hostilities since 1979. It would be similar to Iranians denying the great impact Arabs had on Iran on most fronts or the tremendous pre-Islamic influences from us Semitic people that reached pre-Islamic Iran when they first emerged in history some 2600 years ago.

Bro, I don't know where you are from in Punjab (some 100 million people live there) but I have Pakistani Punjabi friends who have told me in person that they migrated from Indian Punjab to Pakistan but they are full-blooded Punjabis and nobody can see on their appearance that they are not Pakistani Punjabis. Similar to Baloch in Pakistan and Iran. Do you think there is a huge difference?

Or between people who live in Northern Gujarat and Southern Sindh across the border? Or people in Lahore etc.?

I suppose that every Pakistani (depending on political ideology and sentiments) have different views about this topic because I have seen many of your compatriots saying what I am saying openly here on PDF.

I'm not ignorant enough to claim differences just because of a line drawn on a map, but different biradiris of Punjabis don't even marry amongst each other and here you are trying to paint hundreds of people with the same brush. There used be a united Punjab, and if punjabis migrated from India they were mainly from cities that are directly on the modern border such as Jalandar, Gurdaspur, and Amritsar. I don't really care to speak on the genetics, because I honestly don't care enough.

If you are truly interested, I think @Kabira is a lot more qualified to answer your questions, but unfortunately he is currently banned. I'm pretty sure you frequent those anthro forums and such, but I never got into that stuff. Too many inferiority complex ridden people there.

 

[waz]

I don't need to speak for anyone when stating facts. A large number of Pakistani users here on PDF have ancestral origins in India. Even 2 moderators if I am not wrong. They have written about this openly here on PDF and even some have told this to me here.

That Punjabis (speaking about Afghans, the same Afghans when trying to tease Pakistanis call Punjabis or Pakistanis for Indians) of Pakistan are the dominating ethnic and cultural group. Punjabis also live across the 71 year old border. Many Punjabis (Muslim) migrated to Pakistan from India and many Punjabi Hindus migrated from Pakistan to India. There is no difference between people in Lahore and people across the border in India. Sindhis are very similar to neighboring Gujaritis as well. I know because a few Sindhis have told me myself and I grew up with South Asians from all ethnic groups and countries in the GCC as every imaginable group is present.

The father of Pakistan (Muhammad Ali Jinnah) was himself of Gujarati origins as well.

I don't know why some Pakistanis are trying to deny those connections due to political hostility between Pakistan and India. That would be like if Saudi Arabians tried to deny ties with neighboring nations and regions whether it be Iraq, Jordan, Syria (Sham in general), Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman, Iran, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait etc.

Of course I am ready to be educated if I am a completely wrong and if what I have read and been told is totally wrong. I am indeed not from Pakistan so far from an expert.

Anyway this is off-topic. I was more worried about exposing the usual anti-Arab trolls that were spreading nonsense in this thread. Mission accomplished.

Also I am not very fond of false-flagging trolls like this @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Arab-obsessed and hypocritical troll that has been exposed a few times already yet continues to troll 24/7.

You're spot on with much, off by some, and one thing is wrong lol.
Pakistanis do share DNA with India according to many studies, it hovers around 50%-65%.
The red shading shows the common grouping on Pakistanis and Indians.
But then Pakistanis are also unique in that they share the blue shading group common in Southern Europe, the Middle East and Central Asia, which broadly is in-line with various timelines in Pakistan.

The Sindhis bro have nothing in common with Gujaratis, the language itself is not spoken, they are ethnically different. Sindhis also have over 30% from Balochi roots, which makes the differences even more pronounced.

Here is a typical Sindhi look;

As for the anti-Arab trolls just refer to them back to who their Rasool(saws) was and his companions and family, or call me. How dare they insult Arab folk who were honoured with the final revelation.
Yes there are things we don't agree with regarding the UAE and other states but how does that equate to blanket labelling Arabs as all bad? Arabs are a wonderful and diverse group spread across many nations.
Anyway I love my Arabic people.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

You're spot on with much, off by some, and one thing is wrong lol.
Pakistanis do share DNA with India according to many studies, it hovers around 50%-65%.
The red shading shows the common grouping on Pakistanis and Indians.
But then Pakistanis are also unique in that they share the blue shading group common in Southern Europe, the Middle East and Central Asia, which broadly is in-line with various timelines in Pakistan.

The Sindhis bro have nothing in common with Gujaratis, the language itself is not spoken, they are ethnically different. Sindhis also have over 30% from Balochi roots, which makes the differences even more pronounced.

Here is a typical Sindhi look;

As for the anti-Arab trolls just refer to them back to who their Rasool(saws) was and his companions and family, or call me. How dare they insult Arab folk who were honoured with the final revelation.
Yes there are things we don't agree with regarding the UAE and other states but how does that equate to blanket labelling Arabs as all bad? Arabs are a wonderful and diverse group spread across many nations.
Anyway I love my Arabic people.

I find these DNA studies to be bullshit just based off of the sample bases.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Pakistan needs to take strong action against any Arab adventures into Afghanistan.

Bhai anay dey Khushboo laga k....samaj Jha...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I'm not ignorant enough to claim differences just because of a line drawn on a map, but different biradiris of Punjabis don't even marry amongst each other and here you are trying to paint hundreds of people with the same brush. There used be a united Punjab, and if punjabis migrated from India they were mainly from cities that are directly on the modern border such as Jalandar, Gurdaspur, and Amritsar. I don't really care to speak on the genetics, because I honestly don't care enough.

If you are truly interested, I think @Kabira is a lot more qualified to answer your questions, but unfortunately he is currently banned. I'm pretty sure you frequent those anthro forums and such, but I never got into that stuff. Too many inferiority complex ridden people there.

No, I merely wrote what I wrote due to having read what I have read, seen of academic/scientific evidence (DNA) and read on PDF by Pakistanis themselves. The examples that I gave of commonalities between certain ethnic groups found in Pakistan and the neighborhood (hence why I mentioned KP and Jalalabad as an example as well) were not as you believe, me equating Pakistanis with Indians (lol) let alone Indians from, as I wrote earlier, Tamil Nadu, Bihar or Calcutta.

What I believe, based on your ideology (patriot) and the current animosity between Pakistan and India, is that you downplay the ties. You of course could probably care less and that is understandable but I was not convinced by your arguments.

No, I have never been a member of those forums which are indeed cancer by large but I can't hide from having looked at some of them a few times. However I am interested in DNA indeed (never hidden it) and what I use is Family Tree DNA. This is a page where every Joe from across the world can upload his DNA results. It's not a forum but more a scientific collecting of DNA results.

https://www.familytreedna.com

I don't know how accurate this Wikipedia page is (however I do imagine that it was mostly edited by Punjabis from Pakistan and India naturally)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Punjabi_tribes

but it appears to me that most tribes are found across the 71 year old border.

Similar to how Arab tribes and clans do not care about modern-day borders.

 

[waz]

I find these DNA studies to be bullshit just based off of the sample bases.

Having a massive sample base bro brings up logistical and cost issues. We can only make do with what we have.

No, I merely wrote what I wrote due to having read what I have read, seen of academic/scientific evidence (DNA) and read on PDF by Pakistanis themselves. The examples that I gave of commonalities between certain ethnic groups found in Pakistan and the neighborhood (hence why I mentioned KP and Jalalabad as an example as well) were not as you believe, me equating Pakistanis with Indians (lol) let alone Indians from, as I wrote earlier, Tamil Nadu, Bihar or Calcutta.

What I believe, based on your ideology (patriot) and the current animosity between Pakistan and India, is that you downplay the ties. You of course could probably care less and that is understandable but I was not convinced by your arguments.

No, I have never been a member of those forums which are indeed cancer by large but I can't hide from having looked at some of them a few times. However I am interested in DNA indeed (never hidden it) and what I use is Family Tree DNA. This is a page where every Joe from across the world can upload his DNA results. It's not a forum but more a scientific collecting of DNA results.

https://www.familytreedna.com

I don't know how accurate this Wikipedia page is (however I do imagine that it was mostly edited by Punjabis from Pakistan and India naturally)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Punjabi_tribes

but it appears to me that most tribes are found across the 71 year old border.

Similar to how Arab tribes and clans do not care about modern-day borders.

That's fine but there's one important thing you are missing, the Punjabi population of India is very tiny. They are not at all representative of India.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

You're spot on with much, off by some, and one thing is wrong lol.
Pakistanis do share DNA with India according to many studies, it hovers around 50%-65%.
The red shading shows the common grouping on Pakistanis and Indians.
But then Pakistanis are also unique in that they share the blue shading group common in Southern Europe, the Middle East and Central Asia, which broadly is in-line with various timelines in Pakistan.

The Sindhis bro have nothing in common with Gujaratis, the language itself is not spoken, they are ethnically different. Sindhis also have over 30% from Balochi roots, which makes the differences even more pronounced.

Here is a typical Sindhi look;

As for the anti-Arab trolls just refer to them back to who their Rasool(saws) was and his companions and family, or call me. How dare they insult Arab folk who were honoured with the final revelation.
Yes there are things we don't agree with regarding the UAE and other states but how does that equate to blanket labelling Arabs as all bad? Arabs are a wonderful and diverse group spread across many nations.
Anyway I love my Arabic people.

This is true. Pakistan is unique in the sense that you guys have ancestral ties to South Asia/Indian Continent/whatever you want to call it, Western Asia and to a smaller extend Central Asia.

I do know that Sindhis and Gujarits are different people I am just saying that it would be natural for people in Southern Sindh and at least Northern Gujarat to have some kind of substantial ties. I mean is that not best exemplified by Muhammad Ali Jinnah who took the short trip from his ancestral Gujarat (his parents, sorry) to Karachi not far away?

The diversity is huge in South Asia and it's a very interesting region in this sense.

Anyway this entire discussion started when the troll @Pan-Islamic Pakistan (who proclaimed himself as a Mughal descendent, aside from having Arab, Persian and Turkic ancestry, all his own words), started his usual anti-Arab nonsense bashing that I picked apart easily (as usual) later for him to escape, and my belief that he is a Indian false-flagger. Either that or schizophrenic.

BTW since we are discussing this topic, and you brother, if I am not wrong, was from Kashmir, how much do people differ from the Pakistani controlled Kashmir and the Indian one? Is it the same people or are there great differences?

Complicated stuff.

Having a massive sample base bro brings up logistical and cost issues. We can only make do with what we have.



That's fine but there's one important thing you are missing, the Punjabi population of India is very tiny. They are not at all representative of India.

Of course which is why I always wrote that when I am talking about "Indian" here I am taking about border regions. I mean what is Indian? A citizen of India. This can be anything from those Pygmy descendants (some of the earliest humans out of Africa) that settled the Nicobar Islands, the Mongoloid looking Northeastern Indians, the Southern Indians and everything in between.

I was talking about neighboring regions specially.

Anyway what about the Muhajirs in Pakistan who came from India? Are they not from all over the place at least? Hyderabad, Bihar, Bengal etc.?

@lastofthepatriots is thinking that I am equating Pakistanis with Indians. I am not that ignorant. After all the GCC is home to a large community from South Asia (largest diaspora in fact so not some invisible or insignificant diaspora) and almost every ethnic group is represented. I thus, probably, know about the nuances more than vast majority of foreigners.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

No, I merely wrote what I wrote due to having read what I have read, seen of academic/scientific evidence (DNA) and read on PDF by Pakistanis themselves. The examples that I gave of commonalities between certain ethnic groups found in Pakistan and the neighborhood (hence why I mentioned KP and Jalalabad as an example as well) were not as you believe, me equating Pakistanis with Indians (lol) let alone Indians from, as I wrote earlier, Tamil Nadu, Bihar or Calcutta.

What I believe, based on your ideology (patriot) and the current animosity between Pakistan and India, is that you downplay the ties. You of course could probably care less and that is understandable but I was not convinced by your arguments.

No, I have never been a member of those forums which are indeed cancer by large but I can't hide from having looked at some of them a few times. However I am interested in DNA indeed (never hidden it) and what I use is Family Tree DNA. This is a page where every Joe from across the world can upload his DNA results. It's not a forum but more a scientific collecting of DNA results.

https://www.familytreedna.com

I don't know how accurate this Wikipedia page is (however I do imagine that it was mostly edited by Punjabis from Pakistan and India naturally)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Punjabi_tribes

but it appears to me that most tribes are found across the 71 year old border.

Similar to how Arab tribes and clans do not care about modern-day borders.

It's hard to explain because you neither speak the language nor do you know the history. It's not even that I'm following a political narrative, but we have a unique identity. Many regions of Pakistan have indigenous clans and people that would fall under the umbrella designation of Punjabi such as saraikis, janjuas, ect.