SpArK
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The have reduced the orders on regular ones... and these harriers dont have that much life left.. so its common sense.
U.S. To Buy Old British Harrier jets, Is F-35B dead?
- Thread starter Lankan Ranger
- Start date
The have reduced the orders on regular ones... and these harriers dont have that much life left.. so its common sense.
Paan Singh
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Speaks volumes about the American confidence in F35
nothing wrong in f-35 but this fighter is unmature and they badly wants to induct this.
Lankan Ranger
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US$ 130 Billion Hit for U.S. defense spending
About half of the $260 billion in U.S. defense spending cuts over the next five years will come from weapon modernization accounts, according to defense analysts.
Roughly $60 billion - about 25 percent - of the cuts will come from efficiencies, while another $60 billion or so will come from reductions in force structure, said Emerson Gardner, a retired lieutenant general who served as the principal deputy director of the Pentagon's Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office until last year.
The remainder of the cuts are expected to target modernization coffers, which include procurement and research-and-development accounts, Gardner - now a senior defense adviser for Potomac Research Group - told an audience in New York Nov. 10 at the 2011 Defense Outlook Forum, hosted by Bank of America Merrill Lynch in association with Defense News.
The $260 billion figure refers to cuts already ordered, not potential further cuts resulting from congressional debt reduction.
Another defense analyst said he had heard the same figures from U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta himself, who has been discussing them privately with various analysts in recent weeks.
Asked about these figures, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little wrote in a Nov. 10 email that "no decisions have been made, including on the percentage breakdown in cuts."
The figures offer a peek inside Pentagon officials' closely held budget development effort, which must trim more than $450 billion from the next decade's spending plans. These cuts were mandated by the Budget Control Act passed in August.
Panetta has said, most recently at a Nov. 10 briefing at the Pentagon, that about $260 billion of the reduction would come over the next five years.
Last month, he said the Defense Department would aim to save $60 billion over a half-decade by finding ways to operate more efficiently.
The secretary also said at the briefing that the Pentagon plans to soon wrap up its internal budget deliberations on the $260 billion reduction.
"My hope is that as we work through this, that we will put the entire leadership of the department in the same place so that we can finalize this effort within the coming weeks," he said.
In recent months, the Pentagon has created a Strategic Choices Working Group, a top-level panel that is assessing the $450 billion in cuts. This is in addition to a comprehensive review of military strategy.
There is near-certainty that the reductions in planned defense spending over the next 10 years will exceed the hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts already mandated by the Budget Control Act. Yet DoD is neither considering the impact of nor making preparations for greater cuts, said David Berteau, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
"They've kind of forgotten how," Berteau said at the conference here. "It's been more than a decade since the Pentagon really put together a fiscally disciplined future-year defense program."
In addition to the $450 billion reduction to planned spending, DoD faces an additional $500 billion in cuts, if a congressional "supercommittee" of Democrats and Republicans fails to identify $1.2 trillion in federal budget cuts by Thanksgiving. These defense cuts through sequestration would total about $1 trillion over 10 years.
At the defense spending conference last week, most speakers said that they expect this panel of lawmakers to fail to reach a consensus.
"We think there's probably an 80 to 90 percent chance that that actually will be the case," Pierre Chao, managing partner at Renaissance Strategic Advisors, said in a presentation.
Chao said U.S. lawmakers are beginning to focus on the political advantages of sequestration.
"If there is a sequestration, it will force the administration to produce an FY13 budget that will be a complete horror show," he said. "It will be 4,600 pages of disaster embedded in, which is exactly what the political classes want to take around during an election season, to hold up that document and say to each other, 'If you elect me, I can make this document go away.'"
With the sequestration deadline rapidly approaching, President Barack Obama called Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., and Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, co-chairs of the supercommittee, on Nov. 11 to receive an update on the panel's work thus far and to urge the group to reach a deal.
The committee has until Nov. 23 to approve a $1.2 trillion deficit reduction plan.
Both chambers of Congress have until Dec. 23 to pass the committee's recommendations.
If a deal is not reached, the across-the-board sequestration cuts would go into effect in January 2013.
Panetta, during the briefing last week, urged lawmakers to reach a deal to avoid sequestration and prevent the hollowing out of the military.
"A hollow military has the organizational structure, but lacks the people, the training and the equipment it needs to actually get the job done," he said. "It's a ship without sailors, it's a brigade without bullets, it's an air wing without enough trained pilots, it's a paper tiger."
$130B Hit for U.S. Modernization - Defense News
About half of the $260 billion in U.S. defense spending cuts over the next five years will come from weapon modernization accounts, according to defense analysts.
Roughly $60 billion - about 25 percent - of the cuts will come from efficiencies, while another $60 billion or so will come from reductions in force structure, said Emerson Gardner, a retired lieutenant general who served as the principal deputy director of the Pentagon's Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office until last year.
The remainder of the cuts are expected to target modernization coffers, which include procurement and research-and-development accounts, Gardner - now a senior defense adviser for Potomac Research Group - told an audience in New York Nov. 10 at the 2011 Defense Outlook Forum, hosted by Bank of America Merrill Lynch in association with Defense News.
The $260 billion figure refers to cuts already ordered, not potential further cuts resulting from congressional debt reduction.
Another defense analyst said he had heard the same figures from U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta himself, who has been discussing them privately with various analysts in recent weeks.
Asked about these figures, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little wrote in a Nov. 10 email that "no decisions have been made, including on the percentage breakdown in cuts."
The figures offer a peek inside Pentagon officials' closely held budget development effort, which must trim more than $450 billion from the next decade's spending plans. These cuts were mandated by the Budget Control Act passed in August.
Panetta has said, most recently at a Nov. 10 briefing at the Pentagon, that about $260 billion of the reduction would come over the next five years.
Last month, he said the Defense Department would aim to save $60 billion over a half-decade by finding ways to operate more efficiently.
The secretary also said at the briefing that the Pentagon plans to soon wrap up its internal budget deliberations on the $260 billion reduction.
"My hope is that as we work through this, that we will put the entire leadership of the department in the same place so that we can finalize this effort within the coming weeks," he said.
In recent months, the Pentagon has created a Strategic Choices Working Group, a top-level panel that is assessing the $450 billion in cuts. This is in addition to a comprehensive review of military strategy.
There is near-certainty that the reductions in planned defense spending over the next 10 years will exceed the hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts already mandated by the Budget Control Act. Yet DoD is neither considering the impact of nor making preparations for greater cuts, said David Berteau, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
"They've kind of forgotten how," Berteau said at the conference here. "It's been more than a decade since the Pentagon really put together a fiscally disciplined future-year defense program."
In addition to the $450 billion reduction to planned spending, DoD faces an additional $500 billion in cuts, if a congressional "supercommittee" of Democrats and Republicans fails to identify $1.2 trillion in federal budget cuts by Thanksgiving. These defense cuts through sequestration would total about $1 trillion over 10 years.
At the defense spending conference last week, most speakers said that they expect this panel of lawmakers to fail to reach a consensus.
"We think there's probably an 80 to 90 percent chance that that actually will be the case," Pierre Chao, managing partner at Renaissance Strategic Advisors, said in a presentation.
Chao said U.S. lawmakers are beginning to focus on the political advantages of sequestration.
"If there is a sequestration, it will force the administration to produce an FY13 budget that will be a complete horror show," he said. "It will be 4,600 pages of disaster embedded in, which is exactly what the political classes want to take around during an election season, to hold up that document and say to each other, 'If you elect me, I can make this document go away.'"
With the sequestration deadline rapidly approaching, President Barack Obama called Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., and Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, co-chairs of the supercommittee, on Nov. 11 to receive an update on the panel's work thus far and to urge the group to reach a deal.
The committee has until Nov. 23 to approve a $1.2 trillion deficit reduction plan.
Both chambers of Congress have until Dec. 23 to pass the committee's recommendations.
If a deal is not reached, the across-the-board sequestration cuts would go into effect in January 2013.
Panetta, during the briefing last week, urged lawmakers to reach a deal to avoid sequestration and prevent the hollowing out of the military.
"A hollow military has the organizational structure, but lacks the people, the training and the equipment it needs to actually get the job done," he said. "It's a ship without sailors, it's a brigade without bullets, it's an air wing without enough trained pilots, it's a paper tiger."
$130B Hit for U.S. Modernization - Defense News
Obambam
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i heard that there are 3000 f-35 orders..
Yep "in the coming years", but their economy isn't in the best of shape right now and cut backs is already affecting its plans. Moreover, the F-35 is still not mature enough to be sold on as a finished product.
SpArK
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Ok the purchase is for spares.Its not sure whether they fly them too. good move i say.
U.S. Marine Corps Negotiates Buying Decommissioned British Harriers | Defense Update
.
U.S. Marine Corps Negotiates Buying Decommissioned British Harriers | Defense Update
Skull and Bones
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I think India should also look forward to induct 10-15 old refurbished harriers in her carrier fleet.
nForce
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You mean China will buy and gift jets to Pakistan? Dont you think that the habit of piggybacking is crossing all-time limits now?
---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------
not that...!!! Our own Harriers died a slow death without lack of spares as good ol' Tony Blair wont sell them.It will be a mistake to rely upon the British
Lankan Ranger
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From navytimes
US Navy buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers
US Navy and Marine Corps have agreed to buy Britain’s entire decommissioned fleet of 74 Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts a move expected to help the Corps operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters.
Rear Adm. Mark Heinrich, chief of the Navy’s Supply Corps, confirmed the two-part deal last week during a conference in New York sponsored by Bank of America Merrill Lynch in association with Defense News.
Heinrich negotiated the $50 million purchase of all Harrier spare parts, while Rear Adm. Donald Gaddis, the Navy’s program executive officer for tactical aircraft, is overseeing discussions to buy the Harrier aircraft and their Rolls-Royce engines, Heinrich said.
Britain retired its joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Harrier aircraft late last year in one of the most controversial moves of the defense reductions, which also cut the aircraft carriers that operated the jets, other warships, maritime patrol planes and personnel.
Most of the retired Harriers are stored at Royal Air Force Base Cottesmore, England. They have been undergoing minimum fleet maintenance, including anti-deterioration measures, in order to keep them airworthy, Heinrich said.
A British MoD source said Friday that he thought both deals could be signed in the next week or two. The MoD source confirmed that the entire fleet of 74 Harrier aircraft was involved in the sale.
Heinrich noted that payment details were the only outstanding issue on the parts deal discussions, and he said the purchase will give the Corps a relatively economical way to get their hands on key components to keep the Harrier fleet running.
While it is unusual for the U.S. to buy used foreign military aircraft for operation, integration of the British planes into Corps squadrons shouldn’t be a major problem, one expert said.
“I don’t think it will be costly to rip out the Brit systems” and replace them with Marine gear, said Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier.
Nordeen noted that the British GR 9 and 9As are similar in configuration to the Marines’ AV-8B night attack version, which makes up about a third of U.S. Harriers. The British planes also are night planes dedicated to air-ground attack, he said, and while both types carry Forward Looking Infrared sensors, neither is fitted with a multimode radar such as the APG-65 carried by U.S. AV-8B+ models.
The absence of the big radar, Nordeen said, makes the GR 9A and AV-8Bs “a better-performing plane. Weighing less, it’s more of a hot rod.”
British GR 9s, although upgraded with improved avionics and weapons, are powered by the Rolls-Royce Mark 105 Pegasus engine. GR 9As have the more powerful Mark 107, similar to the Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408s that power Marine AV-8Bs.
British and U.S. Harrier II aircraft had a high degree of commonality from their origin. The planes were developed and built in a joint arrangement between British Aerospace — now BAE Systems — and McDonnell Douglas, now a division of Boeing. While each company built its own wings, all forward sections of the British and American Harrier IIs were built by McDonnell in St. Louis, while British Aerospace built the fuselage sections aft of the cockpit.
“All the planes have to fit together,” Nordeen said.
The Harrier IIs, built between 1980 and 1995, “are still quite serviceable,” he said. “The aircraft are not that far apart. We’re taking advantage of all the money the Brits have spent on them. It’s like we’re buying a car with maybe 15,000 miles on it.”
Operationally, Nordeen said, “these are very good platforms. They need upgrades, but on bombing missions they have the ability to incorporate the Litening II targeting pod [used by U.S. aircraft]. They’re good platforms. And we’ve already got trained pilots.”
Nordeen said he expects the British Harriers to be used initially to replace two-seat Marine F-18D Hornet fighters now operated in the night attack role.
Navy, Corps buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times
US Navy buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers
US Navy and Marine Corps have agreed to buy Britain’s entire decommissioned fleet of 74 Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts a move expected to help the Corps operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters.
Rear Adm. Mark Heinrich, chief of the Navy’s Supply Corps, confirmed the two-part deal last week during a conference in New York sponsored by Bank of America Merrill Lynch in association with Defense News.
Heinrich negotiated the $50 million purchase of all Harrier spare parts, while Rear Adm. Donald Gaddis, the Navy’s program executive officer for tactical aircraft, is overseeing discussions to buy the Harrier aircraft and their Rolls-Royce engines, Heinrich said.
Britain retired its joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Harrier aircraft late last year in one of the most controversial moves of the defense reductions, which also cut the aircraft carriers that operated the jets, other warships, maritime patrol planes and personnel.
Most of the retired Harriers are stored at Royal Air Force Base Cottesmore, England. They have been undergoing minimum fleet maintenance, including anti-deterioration measures, in order to keep them airworthy, Heinrich said.
A British MoD source said Friday that he thought both deals could be signed in the next week or two. The MoD source confirmed that the entire fleet of 74 Harrier aircraft was involved in the sale.
Heinrich noted that payment details were the only outstanding issue on the parts deal discussions, and he said the purchase will give the Corps a relatively economical way to get their hands on key components to keep the Harrier fleet running.
While it is unusual for the U.S. to buy used foreign military aircraft for operation, integration of the British planes into Corps squadrons shouldn’t be a major problem, one expert said.
“I don’t think it will be costly to rip out the Brit systems” and replace them with Marine gear, said Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier.
Nordeen noted that the British GR 9 and 9As are similar in configuration to the Marines’ AV-8B night attack version, which makes up about a third of U.S. Harriers. The British planes also are night planes dedicated to air-ground attack, he said, and while both types carry Forward Looking Infrared sensors, neither is fitted with a multimode radar such as the APG-65 carried by U.S. AV-8B+ models.
The absence of the big radar, Nordeen said, makes the GR 9A and AV-8Bs “a better-performing plane. Weighing less, it’s more of a hot rod.”
British GR 9s, although upgraded with improved avionics and weapons, are powered by the Rolls-Royce Mark 105 Pegasus engine. GR 9As have the more powerful Mark 107, similar to the Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408s that power Marine AV-8Bs.
British and U.S. Harrier II aircraft had a high degree of commonality from their origin. The planes were developed and built in a joint arrangement between British Aerospace — now BAE Systems — and McDonnell Douglas, now a division of Boeing. While each company built its own wings, all forward sections of the British and American Harrier IIs were built by McDonnell in St. Louis, while British Aerospace built the fuselage sections aft of the cockpit.
“All the planes have to fit together,” Nordeen said.
The Harrier IIs, built between 1980 and 1995, “are still quite serviceable,” he said. “The aircraft are not that far apart. We’re taking advantage of all the money the Brits have spent on them. It’s like we’re buying a car with maybe 15,000 miles on it.”
Operationally, Nordeen said, “these are very good platforms. They need upgrades, but on bombing missions they have the ability to incorporate the Litening II targeting pod [used by U.S. aircraft]. They’re good platforms. And we’ve already got trained pilots.”
Nordeen said he expects the British Harriers to be used initially to replace two-seat Marine F-18D Hornet fighters now operated in the night attack role.
Navy, Corps buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times
Lankan Ranger
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A British MoD source said Friday that he thought both deals could be signed in the next week.
The British MoD source confirmed that the entire fleet of 74 Harrier jets was involved in the sale.
US Navy and Marine Corps have agreed to buy Britain’s entire decommissioned fleet of 74 Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts a move expected to help the Corps operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/11/navy-marine-buying-decommissioned-british-harriers-111311w/
SpArK
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British and U.S. Harrier II aircraft had a high degree of commonality from their origin. The planes were developed and built in a joint arrangement between British Aerospace — now BAE Systems — and McDonnell Douglas, now a division of Boeing.
Heinrich negotiated the $50 million purchase of all Harrier spare parts, while Rear Adm. Donald Gaddis, the Navy’s program executive officer for tactical aircraft, is overseeing discussions to buy the Harrier aircraft and their Rolls-Royce engines, Heinrich said
Lankan Ranger
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Lets see how US going replace old F/A-18 Hornets
.
United States Navy had 409 F/A-18 Hornets in operation as of late 2008.
VFC-12 1990present (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-15 1992present
VFA-25 1983present
VFA-34 1996present
VFA-37 1990present
VFA-83 1988present
VFA-86 1987present
VFA-87 1986present
VFA-94 1990present
VFA-97 1991present
VFA-106 1984present
VFA-125 1980present
VFA-131 1983present
VFA-136 1985present
VFA-146 1989present
VFA-151 1986present
VFA-192 1986present
VFA-201 19992007 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-203 19901995 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-204 1990present (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-303 19901994 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-305 19901994 (Naval Air Reserve)
United States Marine Corps had 238 F/A-18 Hornets in service as of late 2008.
VMFA-112 1992present (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-115 1985present
VMFA-122 1986present
VMFA-134 19892007 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-142 19902008 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-212 19882008
VMFA-232 1989present
VMFA-251 1987present
VMFA-312 1987present
VMFA-314 1982present
VMFA-321 19912004 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-323 1982present
VMFA-333 19871992
VMFA-531 19831992
VMFA(AW)-121 1989present
VMFA(AW)-224 1993present
VMFA(AW)-225 1991present
VMFA(AW)-242 1991present
VMFA(AW)-533 1992present
VMFAT-101 present
MAWTS-1 present
United States Navy had 409 F/A-18 Hornets in operation as of late 2008.
VFC-12 1990present (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-15 1992present
VFA-25 1983present
VFA-34 1996present
VFA-37 1990present
VFA-83 1988present
VFA-86 1987present
VFA-87 1986present
VFA-94 1990present
VFA-97 1991present
VFA-106 1984present
VFA-125 1980present
VFA-131 1983present
VFA-136 1985present
VFA-146 1989present
VFA-151 1986present
VFA-192 1986present
VFA-201 19992007 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-203 19901995 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-204 1990present (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-303 19901994 (Naval Air Reserve)
VFA-305 19901994 (Naval Air Reserve)
United States Marine Corps had 238 F/A-18 Hornets in service as of late 2008.
VMFA-112 1992present (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-115 1985present
VMFA-122 1986present
VMFA-134 19892007 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-142 19902008 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-212 19882008
VMFA-232 1989present
VMFA-251 1987present
VMFA-312 1987present
VMFA-314 1982present
VMFA-321 19912004 (Marine Air Reserve)
VMFA-323 1982present
VMFA-333 19871992
VMFA-531 19831992
VMFA(AW)-121 1989present
VMFA(AW)-224 1993present
VMFA(AW)-225 1991present
VMFA(AW)-242 1991present
VMFA(AW)-533 1992present
VMFAT-101 present
MAWTS-1 present
SpArK
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SpArK
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Its free spare parts for a very small amount.. They can use the worst of them to practice shooting...
Abingdonboy
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It seems like an interim measure to prolong the life of existing Harriers and old USMC F-18s that F-35B is intended to replace in USMC. It actually firms up likelihood of USMC getting F-35B as they are maintaining their existing fleet and not looking for replacements other than F-35. And let's be honest given the USMC's unique set of criteria what other AC other then F-35B in existence or planning could USMC look to?
It seems most of the RN/RAF Harriers will be canabalized for spares as despite high degree of commanality between US and UK Harriers the US Harriers still have major upgrades and differences to the UK ones such as radar and other key features that can't be retrofitted to UK Harriers.
It seems most of the RN/RAF Harriers will be canabalized for spares as despite high degree of commanality between US and UK Harriers the US Harriers still have major upgrades and differences to the UK ones such as radar and other key features that can't be retrofitted to UK Harriers.
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