U.S. Sends Second Carrier to Asia Amid Tensions with China

[gambit]

@gambit ,

I have a question for you since you actually served in the United States Air Force. This is regarding maneuvering of spy planes. Is it normal for US spy planes to travel alone as in the case of this week's Hainan Incident ? Normally, aren't they supposed to be escorted by a lead in fighter ?

The only reason why I say this is because whenever the JASDF conducts recon operations in the Sea of Japan , especially when they conduct flights near the Republic of Korea Air Space, Russian Federation Air Space or near Chinese Air Space, the P-3 Orions that serve in the JASDF are usually escorted by a squadron of Mitsubishi F-15J Kais , or Mitsubishi F-2 Fighters.

Each situation is unique and warrant custom operations. We would not second guess how Japan does it.

As for how we do it off China, the Chinese know what we do and how often we do it. They have seen it often enough. This is also peace time and we expect the Chinese military to conduct itself befitting a modern and discipline force. Between the Hainan Incident and this time, there have been other US recon flights and other Chinese monitoring of our recon flights in many ways, physical presence is one of them.

Right now, the US is being patient with China. If the PLAAF will not behave like professionals as it claims to be, we will find ways to teach its pilots needed lessons in manners. There is nothing like the high pitch tone in a pilot's ears signalling that there is a weapons radar lock on his jet to get his attention, even in peace time.

 

[Europa]

was it the only interception or had there been more 2/3 this year ? ^^^

 

[Aepsilons]

Each situation is unique and warrant custom operations. We would not second guess how Japan does it.

As for how we do it off China, the Chinese know what we do and how often we do it. They have seen it often enough. This is also peace time and we expect the Chinese military to conduct itself befitting a modern and discipline force. Between the Hainan Incident and this time, there have been other US recon flights and other Chinese monitoring of our recon flights in many ways, physical presence is one of them.

Right now, the US is being patient with China. If the PLAAF will not behave like professionals as it claims to be, we will find ways to teach its pilots needed lessons in manners. There is nothing like the high pitch tone in a pilot's ears signalling that there is a weapons radar lock on his jet to get his attention, even in peace time.

Well said, and thanks. I do find it very odd of the unnecessary provocation of their patrols. The barrel rolling in itself is poor judgment on the pilot's part. Even when they send their miniscule recon planes into our ADIZ, when JASDF F-15J squadrons arrive to escort them out of our ADIZ, our fighters dont perform barrel rolls or any of the like. The PLAAF need to behave professionally. God forbid an incident takes place and well, we can't blame USAF if they are forced to defend themselves.

 

[Jlaw]

Sorry to break it to you but chinese dont believe in goodwill between nations so easily, especially in the case of US. Both in china and europe many (if not most of) common people would say you are the troublemaker of this age, and it is the US who is making problem worse all around the globe ever since the end of second world war. In the case of China nobody (beside in the "diplomatic language" of some leaders) would believe the "good will" of american (as a nation) to be real, people would say you "helped" us because of your national and economic interests, the same way you are building alliance to contain us (or russia or anybody who might challange your interest in whatever regions of this world), people would say we dont owe you anything, because we took the oppertunity and worked hard ourselve to achieve our position with great sacrifice. The same way as you have took the oppertunities when european power were struggeling among themselves, all the wealth were flowing to you and it was not out of "good will" either, Chinese as many others see you as the obstacle to multi polar world order, so you wont be able to find any trust before your "retreat".

On the sidenote when I was on a train to Zhejiang a few days ago I had a quite interesting discussion with a group of people. I was implying that we as chinese should be grateful that in the last few decades our nation was able to cooperate peacefully with so foreign nations, which helped to to build industry and economy, the thing is I was being branded as "traitor" because apparantly I didnt put enough reference on the hard work and sacrifice of our people, and fundamentally they are disagreeing with me that the goodwill (of developed nations) exist at all, while they have nothing against common western people, but as developed nations are unworthy of any trust. After some time I realized that it is the meddling of US & allies around the globe for the past decades that made them distrust foreigners (westerners). The discussion got heated up because I tried to defend the european point of view at certain stages, thankfully we still had at lease some common ground so it didnt end up with a fight.

So while my view was being considered as nationalistic chinese by lots of people in europe (and US since I was briefly in San Diego), I would still be seen as "banana person" or even "traitor" by many in China.

i am a patriotic banana man. Too many hatred towards China by internet people because we are getting stronger each day. Jealousy is like tsunami, hatred is like a typhoon.

 

[gambit]

was it the only interception or had there been more 2/3 this year ? ^^^

There were others before this time. The US simply does not publicize these flights and what they do.

To give you an idea of what kind of information both sides can learn from each other, whenever our F-15s intercepted and escorted Soviet/Russian Bear bombers off US coasts, very often the F-15s will fly to the intercept 'radar blind', meaning their radars will be turned off. They will attempt to intercept based upon raw ground radar information as to where the Bear bomber was and may be in the sky. Then once they are in the guesstimated general location, they will turn on their radars to actively search for and track the Russian. They always got the intercept right despite being 'radar blind'. The reason the F-15s did it that way is to deny the Russians our radar capability as to how far we can detect them. Sometimes the interceptors become radar active at 75 km, sometimes at 100 km, sometimes at 48.9715 km, and so on. The Russians will record radar transmissions of every intercept and without consistent radar activities from the F-15s, they will not know how capable the F-15s could be in real combat.

Whether the Chinese military have this kind of maturity and farsightedness is debatable, but being this reckless in the presence of a potential adversary, especially one with advantages in technology and combat experience in magnitudes greater, does not speak well of the professionalism of the Chinese pilots.

 

[F-22Raptor]

United States Aircraft Carriers are one of the most beautiful military vessels in the world. They have 10 Nimitz Class Carriers and now building their 2nd Gerald Ford Class Carriers.

Such an impressive piece of Human Engineering. Literally a floating city.

The USS Carl Vinson,
Haiti

A century of experience and combat operations have certainly helped. Here is the Gerald Ford:

 

[Aepsilons]

A century of experience and combat operations have certainly helped. Here is the Gerald Ford:

Such a truly beautiful and impressive feat of Human Engineering.

 

[BoQ77]

was it the only interception or had there been more 2/3 this year ? ^^^

as reported, there're several engagements this year.
but this time the pilot did not do properly his job.

He broken the discipline ?

 

[F-22Raptor]

Such a truly beautiful and impressive feat of Human Engineering.

Yeah, I wish I could watch them construct AC's. The machinery used to assemble them is mind-blowing I'm sure.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yeah, I wish I could watch them construct AC's. The machinery used to assemble them is mind-blowing I'm sure.

Ever since i was a child, i always was awed at the Carriers. The history of carrier warfare, in itself, has been a personal favorite of mine. The United States has ...perfected it.

 

[Europa]

There were others before this time. The US simply does not publicize these flights and what they do.

To give you an idea of what kind of information both sides can learn from each other, whenever our F-15s intercepted and escorted Soviet/Russian Bear bombers off US coasts, very often the F-15s will fly to the intercept 'radar blind', meaning their radars will be turned off. They will attempt to intercept based upon raw ground radar information as to where the Bear bomber was and may be in the sky. Then once they are in the guesstimated general location, they will turn on their radars to actively search for and track the Russian. They always got the intercept right despite being 'radar blind'. The reason the F-15s did it that way is to deny the Russians our radar capability as to how far we can detect them. Sometimes the interceptors become radar active at 75 km, sometimes at 100 km, sometimes at 48.9715 km, and so on. The Russians will record radar transmissions of every intercept and without consistent radar activities from the F-15s, they will not know how capable the F-15s could be in real combat.

Whether the Chinese military have this kind of maturity and farsightedness is debatable, but being this reckless in the presence of a potential adversary, especially one with advantages in technology and combat experience in magnitudes greater, does not speak well of the professionalism of the Chinese pilots.

Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor and military expert from the PLA National Defense University in Beijing, told China's nationalistic Global Times tabloid that Beijing must fight back against continued US surveillance in Chinese territory. If Washington does not stop its close-range reconnaisance against China then Beijing should also build a military base in the Pacific near US soil to conduct reconnaisance in order to give America a taste of its own medicine, Zhang said.

i don't know whether their meager defense budget would allow it

 

[JSCh]

US urged to scale back surveillance - Global Times

Yang Yujun, a spokesperson for the Ministry of National Defense, said Saturday that a P-3 anti-submarine aircraft and a P-8 patrol aircraft from the US Navy flew into airspace about 220 kilometers east of Hainan Island on Tuesday morning for short-range reconnaissance.

A P-3 plus a P-8 heading towards China nuclear submarine base.
I wonder how would US react if China do the same to the SSBN base in washington state?

 

[gambit]

Well said, and thanks. I do find it very odd of the unnecessary provocation of their patrols. The barrel rolling in itself is poor judgment on the pilot's part. Even when they send their miniscule recon planes into our ADIZ, when JASDF F-15J squadrons arrive to escort them out of our ADIZ, our fighters dont perform barrel rolls or any of the like. The PLAAF need to behave professionally. God forbid an incident takes place and well, we can't blame USAF if they are forced to defend themselves.

Here are questions that interested readers should think about...

Did the Chinese continued its course until it is out the ADIZ, and was continuously accompanied by the Japanese ? Or once the Japanese arrived, did the Chinese changed heading to find the quickest exit out of the ADIZ, and was continuously escorted by the Japanese ?

How a recon aircraft, whoever it may be, responds is instructive and always revealing of the mission's intent. If the recon aircraft continues on, it may be to gauge the depth of intrusion, in a manner of speaking without violating borders, before the interceptors takes additional measures. If the recon aircraft immediately turns towards an exit, which reveals that he has already have his egress route(s) planned out, the mission may be to gauge response time and urgency of said response.

But no matter the event, every recon mission have an intent and both sides can learn much about each other from each event.

Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor and military expert from the PLA National Defense University in Beijing, told China's nationalistic Global Times tabloid that Beijing must fight back against continued US surveillance in Chinese territory. If Washington does not stop its close-range reconnaisance against China then Beijing should also build a military base in the Pacific near US soil to conduct reconnaisance in order to give America a taste of its own medicine, Zhang said.

i don't know whether their meager defense budget would allow it

Venezuela might be friendly and accommodating.

 

[Aepsilons]

Here are questions that interested readers should think about...

Did the Chinese continued its course until it is out the ADIZ, and was continuously accompanied by the Japanese ? Or once the Japanese arrived, did the Chinese changed heading to find the quickest exit out of the ADIZ, and was continuously escorted by the Japanese ?

How a recon aircraft, whoever it may be, responds is instructive and always revealing of the mission's intent. If the recon aircraft continues on, it may be to gauge the depth of intrusion, in a manner of speaking without violating borders, before the interceptors takes additional measures. If the recon aircraft immediately turns towards an exit, which reveals that he has already have his egress route(s) planned out, the mission may be to gauge response time and urgency of said response.

But no matter the event, every recon mission have an intent and both sides can learn much about each other from each event.


Venezuela might be friendly and accommodating.

Once they enter into the periphery of our ADIZ, the F-15Js escort them until they veer out of the Japanese ADIZ. The same goes whenever Korean, Russian fighters or recon planes are near the vicinity of Japanese airspace.

It is interesting because i remember an article several weeks ago about PLAAF condemning Japanese squadrons for being "aggressive" towards the Chinese recon plan. When in fact all the Japanese fighters did was show its belly -- and the armament underneath. They never performed barrel rolls or the like.

Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor and military expert from the PLA National Defense University in Beijing, told China's nationalistic Global Times tabloid that Beijing must fight back against continued US surveillance in Chinese territory. If Washington does not stop its close-range reconnaisance against China then Beijing should also build a military base in the Pacific near US soil to conduct reconnaisance in order to give America a taste of its own medicine, Zhang said.

i don't know whether their meager defense budget would allow it

No question about the determination of the PLA, PLAN, PLAAF. But the question comes to mind is this, "What island in the pacific" near US Soil ?

@gambit sir, are there any islands in the eastern pacific that may be claimed by Chinese forces via Doctrine of Terra Nullius? Aren't most of the islands in the pacific already claimed as territories of either France, Britain, US et al ?

 

[Europa]

Venezuela might be friendly and accommodating.

looks like some of them can't take it anymore while some tend to remain indifferent. they say they would not seek foreign bases. whatever they say don't matter, they don't have the defense budget to build foreign bases. they are confused