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U.S. says believes it will strike deal with Afghans on troops

They came for Osama, but they had to fight the Taliban regardless, and even then your point is faulty because in order to bet to Osama, they had to fight through the Taliban.

The US entirely concerned withe the Taliban, because they fear that if the Taliban come back, they'll give AQ sanctuary in Afghanistan again. The US doesn't give a **** if Afghanistan turns into a hell hole, as long as it doesn't threaten US and it's western allies.

The Afghan gov rigged the last elections, they didn't come into power by the people's mandate, they came to power through corruption.

I can hardly call Pakistan a democracy, but between Afghanistan and Pakistan, it is Pakistan that is on the path towards proper democracy.

So you finally get my points - the exact points that I have made - taliban refused to hand over Laden and they ended up fighting them. Their goal ended up being - bring democracy, put up local forces and make sure it doesn't go medieval again.

How about rigging and feudal voting patterns in Pakistan? I am not drawing a parellel, rather taking you away from the argument - Afghan govt is a democracy - not perfect but its just the beginning but it is.
 
No idea what your saying in the first part and it doesnt make any sense, it just seems to extend a conspiracy theory namely the NWO, so i'll refrain from any discussion on theories. Fact of the matter is the Americans came after Laden and bcos the Taliban refused to hand him over ended up fighting them.

Till 2004 - 5, the US hardly knew what they were doing in AFG and were going berserk with rage, Musharaf as well was leading them in all directions. It was Obama in 2008 who started putting the US Withdrawals in place with one final big push.


Well, there's no unlike the Afghanistan here - you can measure up areas controlled by both the talibans in your respective countries and it doesnt matter, they both control a certain populace, have similar numbers of militants,have same idealogies..the TTP is a relatively new group, quite new compared to the other taliban and faced against a better army with no recoqnized support, hence the lower rate of control - so going back to thatguy's argument, despite them not running elections similar to the afg taliban, Pakistan is considered a democracy as much as Afghanistan is one, its nascent for them but they are on that path.

I am quite sure that you had no idea what I was saying , since I mentioned nothing about New World Order or talked about a conspiracy theory . Not sure , where you picked up that part . I just said that the Yanks came after both Taliban and Al Qaeda , one being an enemy and the other sheltering the same enemy which means that the Americans considered even the former as enemy which they have fought all along . The thing about ' Taliban aren't the enemy ' was only propagated by Joe Bidden after the Yanks realized that they needed to negotiate with the same enemy , desperately to pave the way for withdrawal from this unending war . Hence the recent statements about ' Talks to continue despite attacks ' .

Well , the US even now doesn't know what is it , doing in Afghanistan . They came here filled with cocaine fueled rage , not knowing their objectives , not knowing whom to target since everyone was the enemy against invaders , not knowing the time frame and not knowing the repercussions . They always acted their own course despite Pakistani leadership advising otherwise . Musharraf didn't persuade them to come here , now did he ? To believe that a third world country's president was misleading the Americans , is something which I find unrealistic .

So , you cant see a difference between a country with no Central Govt and 70% of areas under insurgent's control with a country with a fully functioning democracy with less than 1% under insurgents ( North Waziristan and certain other areas in the tribal agency ) to state that it ' doesn't matter ' ? I am amazed !

So Pakistani and Afghan Taliban have similar number of fighters somehow ? Where do you get these information from or are you now making things up ? :azn: Keep in mind that the Afghans and U.S are negotiating with Taliban , it isn't the Pakistanis negotiating with TTP , since the army operations are in full swing and the insurgents are being nailed hard in few remaining areas . The TTP aren't a dominant group unlike the Taliban in Afghanistan , with whom we need to negotiate to , bring them to the table and persuade them to participate in elections . Islamabad is taking a ' take no prisoners ' approach with the militants on this side of the border . Still , if anyone even remotely tries to compare Afghanistan and Pakistan , then he needs to get his head checked .

How about rigging and feudal voting patterns in Pakistan?

Think again . Is it something exclusive to Pakistan ?
 
So you finally get my points - the exact points that I have made - taliban refused to hand over Laden and they ended up fighting them. Their goal ended up being - bring democracy, put up local forces and make sure it doesn't go medieval again.

How about rigging and feudal voting patterns in Pakistan? I am not drawing a parellel, rather taking you away from the argument - Afghan govt is a democracy - not perfect but its just the beginning but it is.

But that wasn't your point to begin with. Your point was that the US won't allow the government to fall, and to keep the Taliban at bay.

Afghan gov is not a democracy, and the parallel exists with Pakistan, so I'm not going to blame you for doing such a thing. The difference is that the path that Pakistan's on will lead to proper democracy, and this time, there is nothing that anyone can do about it without facing massive consequences. Afghanistan, on the other hand, seems to be going backwards. If the next elections in 2014 are heavily rigged, every analysts in the world agrees that this might lead to the fall of the gov. At this point, Karzai just wants to secure his legacy, which is why he's been acting out against the US and foreign forces, not to mention Pakistan. Even Karzai knows that the next gov may not survive, and he wants to make sure that history will be kind to him, unlike Najeebullah.
 
But that wasn't your point to begin with. Your point was that the US won't allow the government to fall, and to keep the Taliban at bay.

Afghan gov is not a democracy, and the parallel exists with Pakistan, so I'm not going to blame you for doing such a thing. The difference is that the path that Pakistan's on will lead to proper democracy, and this time, there is nothing that anyone can do about it without facing massive consequences. Afghanistan, on the other hand, seems to be going backwards. If the next elections in 2014 are heavily rigged, every analysts in the world agrees that this might lead to the fall of the gov. At this point, Karzai just wants to secure his legacy, which is why he's been acting out against the US and foreign forces, not to mention Pakistan. Even Karzai knows that the next gov may not survive, and he wants to make sure that history will be kind to him, unlike Najeebullah.

My point was the US did not come to fight the taliban but they ended up doing that. They are not there to save the Govt but the people. The Taliban is Pakistan's creation and is handled by Pakistan - its purely a medieval militant organization wholly controlled and operated by Pakistan, so it doesnt have anything to do with the people - even the pushtun on both side of the border who live and obey in fear.

Karzai Govt was re-elected twice and is near the end of a third term so it has a better record then Pakistan's democracy. You never know when your government will be toppled and the army or dictator will taake over. But in Afghanistans case I dont see that happening unless Pakistan overdoes it with its taliban.
 
My point was the US did not come to fight the taliban but they ended up doing that. They are not there to save the Govt but the people. The Taliban is Pakistan's creation and is handled by Pakistan - its purely a medieval militant organization wholly controlled and operated by Pakistan, so it doesnt have anything to do with the people - even the pushtun on both side of the border who live and obey in fear.

Karzai Govt was re-elected twice and is near the end of a third term so it has a better record then Pakistan's democracy. You never know when your government will be toppled and the army or dictator will taake over. But in Afghanistans case I dont see that happening unless Pakistan overdoes it with its taliban.

Not only are you backtracking, but now you're making assumptions and ignoring history.

I'm tired of this.
 
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