What's new

U.S. may sell armed UAVs to India

BHarwana

MODERATOR
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
24,825
Reaction score
20
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The U.S. is close to selling armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to India and the legislative process for that is under way, a diplomatic source said. India has long sought the capability which could be used to target terrorist camps and launchpads across the border.

“A waiver is required to enable the sale of armed UAVs to India and the legislative process is under way. It is likely to be the big outcome of the India-U.S. two-plus-two dialogue to be held in July in Washington,” the source told The Hindu.

If the proposed sale of armed UAVs goes through, India would be among the rare few countries to be sold the high-end U.S. technology, even among closest US allies.

The dialogue, which got postponed, is likely to take place on July 6 and will be attended by External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and U.S. Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis.

A defence official said that this deal once announced would be a significant phase in the India-US defence cooperation and the highpoint of the Major Defence Partner (MDP) status conferred on India.

The US had earlier approved the sale of 22 Guardian unarmed long-range maritime reconnaissance UAVs after the Indian Navy expressed interest in them and made a formal request. The Guardian, which is the maritime variant of the Predator MQ-9 UAV, has a maximum endurance of 40 hours and a maximum flying altitude of 40,000 ft.

The wavier would enable India to go for the armed UAVs instead. However, the number of UAVs is expected to be slightly lesser. “It could be about 17 UAVs,” the source added.

President Donald Trump administration has recently approved a policy change simplifying the export of drones to allies.

The two-plus-two dialogue will also review the progress made on India signing the other two foundational agreements. The agenda for the two-plus-two dialogue is currently being finalised.





http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/us-may-sell-armed-uavs-to-india/article23962248.ece
 
The U.S. is close to selling armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to India and the legislative process for that is under way, a diplomatic source said. India has long sought the capability which could be used to target terrorist camps and launchpads across the border.

“A waiver is required to enable the sale of armed UAVs to India and the legislative process is under way. It is likely to be the big outcome of the India-U.S. two-plus-two dialogue to be held in July in Washington,” the source told The Hindu.

If the proposed sale of armed UAVs goes through, India would be among the rare few countries to be sold the high-end U.S. technology, even among closest US allies.

The dialogue, which got postponed, is likely to take place on July 6 and will be attended by External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and U.S. Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis.

A defence official said that this deal once announced would be a significant phase in the India-US defence cooperation and the highpoint of the Major Defence Partner (MDP) status conferred on India.

The US had earlier approved the sale of 22 Guardian unarmed long-range maritime reconnaissance UAVs after the Indian Navy expressed interest in them and made a formal request. The Guardian, which is the maritime variant of the Predator MQ-9 UAV, has a maximum endurance of 40 hours and a maximum flying altitude of 40,000 ft.

The wavier would enable India to go for the armed UAVs instead. However, the number of UAVs is expected to be slightly lesser. “It could be about 17 UAVs,” the source added.

President Donald Trump administration has recently approved a policy change simplifying the export of drones to allies.

The two-plus-two dialogue will also review the progress made on India signing the other two foundational agreements. The agenda for the two-plus-two dialogue is currently being finalised.





http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/us-may-sell-armed-uavs-to-india/article23962248.ece
upload_2018-5-22_20-50-24.jpeg

Indian are more mighty now by naming it any local name. Can now they called them self Universal power?
 
Indian are more mighty now by naming it any local name. Can now they called them self Universal power?
What universal power lol. They are just getting drones and any world war 2 age anti air can shoot down a drone. The problem is that terrorist don't have anti air weapons to shoot them down before India can celebrate this trade they must remember it is Pakistan the are up against who can take down drones and weapons that take out drones are much cheaper than drones lol.
 
What universal power lol. They are just getting drones and any world war 2 age anti air can shoot down a drone. The problem is that terrorist don't have anti air weapons to shoot them down before India can celebrate this trade they must remember it is Pakistan the are up against who can take down drones and weapons that take out drones are much cheaper than drones lol.
They can used it anywhere in universe. Trust me and soon you will hear that it is world best thing ever happen and they are the best of the best after giving Indian name. Indian vedic tech works only in Indian name;)
 
And what will happen once Indian drone hits inside Pakistan? Do you think just because its a drone Pakistan wont react? First of all any drone crossing over will be shot down, secondly even if it gets away with hitting a target inside Pakistan, a reactionary target will be hit by Pakistan immediately.
 
And what will happen once Indian drone hits inside Pakistan? Do you think just because its a drone Pakistan wont react? First of all any drone crossing over will be shot down, secondly even if it gets away with hitting a target inside Pakistan, a reactionary target will be hit by Pakistan immediately.

Lol how would you know it was a drone?? Ofcourse we may won't publicize that like US. How would you know that it was Indian drone not US's. What if such attack come from Afghanistan? There are many variables that's why its very important deal for India.
 
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...-policy-on-supply-of-armed-drones/576937.html

For India the new policy allows use of these drones to fulfil ‘counter-terrorism objectives’, allowing attacks on terrorists who are so far dealt by ground-based Indian Army troops.


New Delhi will be a major gainer as the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has a blueprint to procure more than 5,000 UAVs over the next years. These will include high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) UAVs, vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) UAVs, medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) UAVs and mini UAVs. Some of these intend to be armed to buttress the strike capability.

The Indian armed forces are looking for 100 Predator types of drones–both the armed version and for surveillance. It will increase India’s maritime surveillance capabilities in the Indian Ocean region. It can also keep a hawk’s eye on the long porous border with Pakistan and relay-live any attempts at incursions in the Bengal Province by the Chinese PLA. These drones can fly for 24 hours without refuelling and operate at 50,000-ft altitude (modern passenger aircraft cruise at 35,000-45,000 ft).

Last year, Washington announced the export of 22 unarmed Predator drones following an Indian Navy request.

Another 1,500 mini UAVs are needed for the Army. Apart from this, the Indian Navy and Coast Guard want 50 ship-borne mini UAVs for monitoring sea lines of communications, search and rescue and anti-piracy roles. These UAVs coupled with the Predator can incrementally add to capacities of maritime patrol aircraft like the P-8I and Anti submarine warfare helicopters at sea.

“Procurement cases for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles are being actively pursued,” Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said at a press conference in New Delhi on December 2 last year.

The Indian Army proposes to equip UAVs down to the battalion level, while the Air Force plans to have fully operational squadrons of surveillance UAVs and unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV).

For US, policy has following objectives

A policy shift has been made by the United States enabling India to acquire armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), popularly known as drones.

The US on Thursday night (Indian time) okayed the ‘US Policy on the Export of Unmanned Aerial Systems’. A statement of the US State department said:

“The President (Donald Trump) has approved a new policy on the export of unmanned aerial systems (UAS). This policy updates and replaces the previous policy announced on February 17, 2015.”



It increases trade opportunities for US companies. It will remove barriers to the global drone market and avoid ceding export opportunities to competitors where such self-imposed restrictions are unwarranted.

It bolsters partner security and counterterrorism capabilities. It will facilitate international partners’ access to US drones in situations where it will enhance those partners’ security and their ability to advance shared security or counterterrorism objectives.

It strengthens bilateral relationships. The US will use these drone sales to strengthen US security relationships when stronger bilateral ties and greater interoperability serve broader US national security and foreign policy interests.

All potential military drone transfers will be subject to Department of State-led assessment under the Conventional Arms Transfer (CAT) Policy and Department of Defene (DOD)-led assessment regarding technology security, as applicable.

All drone transfers will be reviewed consistent with US international nonproliferation commitments, including under the Missile Technology Control.

There will be End-Use Monitoring and Additional Security Conditions. All military drones may be subject to enhanced end-use monitoring and may also be subject to additional security conditions. Transfers of US-origin armed and MTCR Category I drones shall require periodic consultations with the United States on their use.

***

The modern age of drones began in 1995 in Bosnia, with the first deployment of a squadron of Air Force Predator reconnaissance aircraft.

The Predators used in Bosnia were unarmed, but their ability to track terrorists quickly sparked a debate about whether to arm them. In October 2000, the United States began using unarmed Predators to surveil terrorists in Afghanistan with the aim of finding Osama bin Laden. The potential for armed drones to shorten the kill chain and strike bin Laden, if he was seen, inspired then-White House counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke to push for arming Predators. The United States tested the first Predators armed with Hellfire missiles in early 2001. Hellfire missiles were slated for deployment to arm Predators by September 1, 2001, but the missiles were delayed because of technical problems. After the September 11 attacks, the United States rushed Hellfires to theater, and the first armed drone strike occurred in November 2001.14 Their use to kill terrorists from afar started a new pattern of war.

More than 90 state and non-state actors now possess drones, ranging from small, inexpensive commercial drones to sophisticated military drones.

Secrecy surrounding some development programs and arms transfers makes it difficult to produce a completely accurate picture of drone proliferation, but open source data indicates at least 16 countries have armed drones and 20 additional countries are seeking to develop armed drones.

The majority of drones transferred abroad are unarmed and intended primarily for reconnaissance. Between 2010 and 2014, only 2.5 percent of drones transferred abroad (11 of 439) were armed.

The MTCR was established in 1987 to limit the proliferation of unmanned ballistic missile technology and delivery vehicles that could be used to deliver weapons of mass destruction (WMD) for chemical, biological, and nuclear attacks. The MTCR sets guidelines and promulgates lists of systems, software, technologies, and services that should be controlled due to military and dual-use purposes as they apply to missile development, production, and operation. The list of controlled items can be separated into two general categories:

  • Category I items: Complete unmanned systems or subsystems that have the capability to deliver a 500-kilogram payload over a distance of 300 kilometers. This includes: ballistic missiles, space launch vehicles, cruise missiles, target and reconnaissance drones, and remotely piloted vehicles. Category I also includes the technology for design and production facilities.
  • Category II items: These are items that could con- tribute to a delivery system. This includes: inertial navigation and production, flight control systems, avionics equipment, launch support equipment and facilities, test facilities and equipment, software and related computers, and reduced-observables technology, materials, and devices.
Under these guidelines, members agree to an “unconditional strong presumption of denial” of transfer of Category I items, which should occur “only on rare occasions.” This strong presumption of denial applies to Category I transfers to members and non-members, regardless of the purpose of export. Transfers require binding and vigorous government-to-government assurances on end-use. Transfers of Category I production facilities are “absolutely prohibited.” For Category II items, members can make case-by-case decisions to transfer and seek additional end-use assurances if deemed necessary.

the MTCR has failed to keep the world’s most problematic actors – China, Pakistan, Israel and, of course, North Korea and Iran – from advancing their missile programs and proliferating technology. Yet overall, the MTCR has had remarkable success in creating a more challenging and costly environment for proliferators to produce or acquire WMD-capable missiles.

MTCR treats drones like missiles, not aircraft. The MTCR’s 500-kilogram payload and 300-kilometer range limits apply to “complete unmanned aerial vehicle systems (including cruise missiles, target drones, and reconnaissance drones).” In 1987 when the MTCR was founded, this classification made sense since most drones were one-way target drones.

The United States has approved transfers of category I drones, such as the RQ-4 Global Hawk and MQ-9 Reaper, to a limited number of NATO and major non-NATO allies, such as Japan, Australia, and South Korea, The United States has been particularly reluctant to transfer armed drones, only authorizing transfers to Italy and the United Kingdom.

This hesitation to transfer drones has even extended in some cases to transfers of unarmed, category II systems to close U.S. partners. In 2014, the Obama administration rejected Jordan’s request to acquire unarmed Predator XP drones, which fall below the MTCR’s 500-kilogram, 300-kilometer category I limit.

Satellite images of a Israeli air base in 2016 showed a Chinese-made CH-4 surveillance and strike drone, comparable to a U.S. Reaper.

(The MTCR does not distinguish between armed vs. unarmed drones.) China has sold armed drones to Kazakhstan, Myanmar, Nigeria, Pakistan, Turkmenistan.

Russia reportedly has approved but not yet delivered transfers of armed drones to Germany.

In 2013, motivated by some of these problems, the United States initiated a broad review of its approach to drone exports that culminated in the February 2015 U.S. Export Policy for Military Unmanned Aerial Systems.

In March 2017, the Republican and Democratic chairs of the U.S. Senate India Caucus sent letters to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis expressing support for India’s request regarding the Guardian drone, an unarmed maritime version of the MQ-9 Reaper.

The following month, a bipartisan group of 22 Congressional representatives signed a letter to President Trump asking him to permit sales of MQ-9 Reaper drones to Jordan and the United Arab Emirates. (Both the Guardian and Reaper are Category I MTCR systems, and unarmed Reapers have been approved for transfer to several NATO and major non-NATO allies.) The lawmakers cited concerns that countries would turn to China instead for their drone purchases – concerns that have materialized in reality.
 
Last edited:
it was "may" in 2016, "May" in 2017 and still is "May" in 2018
US is playing India game with them, like India may go for SU, may go for Rafael, may go for F35
 
it was "may" in 2016, "May" in 2017 and still is "May" in 2018
US is playing India game with them, like India may go for SU, may go for Rafael, may go for F35

What to do. You guys or China will not sell your super duper Armed Drones to us, so we got to beg from US
 
What universal power lol. They are just getting drones and any world war 2 age anti air can shoot down a drone. The problem is that terrorist don't have anti air weapons to shoot them down before India can celebrate this trade they must remember it is Pakistan the are up against who can take down drones and weapons that take out drones are much cheaper than drones lol.
How many MALE/HALE Drones have been really shot down by visual sightings? Or even MANPADs? They are hardly audible or visible even during full daylight and clear skies. To shoot down an Iranian drone you had to scramble a JF-17, which are supposed to lot inferior to US ones.

Now imagine a MQ-9B flying with a couple of AIM-9 and a JF17 coming in range. Let me know then which will be cheaper.
 
Lol how would you know it was a drone?? Ofcourse we may won't publicize that like US. How would you know that it was Indian drone not US's. What if such attack come from Afghanistan? There are many variables that's why its very important deal for India.
Are you serious? You think we can differentiate who's drone is it? and Good luck shifting those drones to Afghanistan lol. Such a prized asset will never be moved outside India.
 
How many MALE/HALE Drones have been really shot down by visual sightings? Or even MANPADs? They are hardly audible or visible even during full daylight and clear skies. To shoot down an Iranian drone you had to scramble a JF-17, which are supposed to lot inferior to US ones.

Now imagine a MQ-9B flying with a couple of AIM-9 and a JF17 coming in range. Let me know then which will be cheaper.


Pakistan Military has claimed that they have shot down many drones around Islamic Republic of Afghanistan but still no official confirmation has been issued by Pakistan Military , how many in close combat or by manpads by using the mountains?

Remember Kargil ? 2 Indian Air Force fighter planes were shoot down by the Pakistan Military using the Chinese Manpads not by U.S made Stingers manpads.

U.S.-made Stinger anti-aircraft Late Ahmed Shah Masood.
7738E476-FA29-4405-8368-1C14593CA83F_w1023_r1_s.jpg
 
Last edited:
Pakistan Military has claimed that they have shoot down many drones around Islamic Republic of Afghanistan but still no official confirmation has been issued by Pakistan Military , how many in close combat or by manpads by using the mountains?

Remember Kargil ? 2 Indian Air Force fighter planes were shoot down by the Pakistan Military using the Chinese Manpads not by U.S made Stingers manpads.

U.S.-made Stinger anti-aircraft Late Ahmed Shah Masood.
7738E476-FA29-4405-8368-1C14593CA83F_w1023_r1_s.jpg
Maybe I missed the news of Pakistan taking down ''many' drones around Afghanistan. The only one I know is the one from Iran or couple of Indian Herons that crashed into Pakistan which they claimed they had brought down and I'm not including quad-copters like DJI. Kindly direct me to those threads.
 
Maybe I missed the news of Pakistan taking down ''many' drones around Afghanistan. The only one I know is the one from Iran or couple of Indian Herons that crashed into Pakistan which they claimed they had brought down and I'm not including quad-copters like DJI. Kindly direct me to those threads.

UAVs have been in service with the Indian Navy since 2006 when the first UAV squadron was established.

According to Indian Navy specifications, the UAVs have a range of 217 miles, an operational speed of 130 miles per hour and fly at a maximum altitude of 32,800 feet.

Homegrown Programs
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing a variety of UAVs for the services, including:

Air Force: Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station at a cost of $60 million; two stealth UCAVs called autonomous unmanned research aircraft (AURA) and one ground station for $75 million; 30 Nirbhay UAVs and unspecified numbers of Lakshya-II remotely piloted high speed target drones at a cost of $531,687 per unit.


Navy: Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station for $60 million with 12 more to come; 10 MALE Rustoms at a cost of $225 million; four Pawan mini UAVs for $33.2 million; 50 air- and ship-launched Nirbhay UAVs; three rotary UAVs at a cost of $232 million; unspecified numbers of Netra micro UAVs for $50,000 per unit; and Gagan tactical UAVs at a cost of $55 million with help from Israel.

Army:Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station at a cost of $60 million and 12 more in the future; 10 Rustom-2 UCAVs for $342.3 million; 12 Nishant UAVs at a cost of $5 million each; and three hybrid mini-UAVs and one ground station for $350,000.

DRDO is also supplying about 25 Netra micro UAVs to Indian paramilitary forces at a cost of $50,000 per unit.

Major programs that have been finalized for the Army include induction of 500 mini and macro UAVs and an unspecified number of HALE UAVs; for the Air Force are an unspecified number of UCAVs, 95 micro unmanned aerial systems and an unspecified number of small VTOL and mini unmanned aerial systems; for the Navy are 95 micro unmanned aerial systems and unspecified numbers of HALE UAVs costing around $200 million.

In addition, DRDO also has an independent unmanned surveillance air vehicle on the drawing board, which is similar to the X-45 and X-47 developed in the US and is also scouting for a partner to develop a solar-powered HALE UAV.


The Indian Army had bought some drones from Israel at a cost of $400 million but those Israeli drones were not suitable for Indian Military requirements

24azoty.jpg


An Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) of the Indian Air Force crashed near Akoda hamlet near Chouhatan town in Barmer district on Friday around 2pm.
Heron-Crash.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom