What's new

U.S. Is Looking Past Musharraf in Case He Falls

Tiki Tam Tam

<b>MILITARY PROFESSIONALS</b>
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
9,330
Reaction score
0
U.S. Is Looking Past Musharraf in Case He Falls

By HELENE COOPER, MARK MAZZETTI and DAVID ROHDE
Published: November 15, 2007

This article is by Helene Cooper, Mark Mazzetti and David Rohde.

WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 — Almost two weeks into Pakistan’s political crisis, Bush administration officials are losing faith that the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, can survive in office and have begun discussing what might come next, according to senior administration officials.

In meetings on Wednesday, officials at the White House, State Department and the Pentagon huddled to decide what message Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte would deliver to General Musharraf — and perhaps more important, to Pakistan’s generals — when he arrives in Islamabad on Friday.

Administration officials say they still hope that Mr. Negroponte can salvage the fractured arranged marriage between General Musharraf and former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. But in Pakistan, foreign diplomats and aides to both leaders said the chances of a deal between the leaders were evaporating 11 days after General Musharraf declared de facto martial law.

Several senior administration officials said that with each day that passed, more administration officials were coming around to the belief that General Musharraf’s days in power were numbered and that the United States should begin considering contingency plans, including reaching out to Pakistan’s generals.

More than a dozen officials in Washington and Islamabad from a number of countries spoke on condition of anonymity because of the fragility of Pakistan’s current political situation. The doubts that American officials voiced about whether General Musharraf could survive were more pointed than any public statements by the administration, and signaled declining American patience in advance of Mr. Negroponte’s trip.

Officials involved in the discussions in Washington said the Bush administration remained wary of the perception that the United States was cutting back-room deals to install the next leader of Pakistan. “They don’t want to encourage another military coup, but they are also beginning to understand that Musharraf has become part of the problem,” said one former official with knowledge of the debates inside the Bush administration.

That shift in perception is significant because for six years General Musharraf has sought to portray himself, for his own purposes, as the West’s best alternative to a possible takeover in Pakistan by radical Islamists.

While remote areas in northwestern Pakistan remain a haven for Al Qaeda and other Islamic militants, senior officials at the White House, the State Department and the Pentagon now say they recognize that the Pakistani Army remains a powerful force for stability in Pakistan, and that there is little prospect of an Islamic takeover if General Musharraf should fall.

If General Musharraf is forced from power, they say, it would most likely be in a gentle push by fellow officers, who would try to install a civilian president and push for parliamentary elections to produce the next prime minister, perhaps even Ms. Bhutto, despite past strains between her and the military.

Many Western diplomats in Islamabad said they believed that even a flawed arrangement like that one was ultimately better than an oppressive and unpopular military dictatorship under General Musharraf.

Such a scenario would be a return to the diffuse and sometimes unwieldy democracy that Pakistan had in the 1990s before General Musharraf seized power in a bloodless coup.

But the diplomats also warned that removing the general might not be that easy. Army generals are unlikely to move against General Musharraf unless certain “red lines” are crossed, such as countrywide political protests or a real threat of a cutoff of American military aid to Pakistan.

Since he invoked emergency powers on Nov. 3, General Musharraf has successfully used a huge security crackdown to block large-scale protests. Virtually all major opposition politicians have been detained, as well as 2,500 party workers, lawyers and human rights activists, and on Wednesday, a close aide to General Musharraf said the Pakistani leader remained convinced that emergency rule should continue.

Pakistan’s cadre of elite generals, called the corps commanders, have long been kingmakers inside the country. At the top of that cadre is Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, General Musharraf’s designated successor as army chief. General Kayani is a moderate, pro-American infantry commander who is widely seen as commanding respect within the army and, within Western circles, as a potential alternative to General Musharraf.

General Kayani and other military leaders are widely believed to be eager to pull the army out of politics and focus its attention purely on securing the country.

Senior administration officials in Washington said they were concerned that the longer the constitutional crisis in Pakistan continued, the more diverted Pakistan’s army would be from the mission the United States wants it focused on: fighting terrorism in the country’s border areas.

The officials said there was growing worry in Washington that the situation unfolding in the mountainous region of Swat, where Islamic militants sympathetic to the Taliban and Al Qaeda are battling Pakistan’s Army, was a sign that General Musharraf — and the Pakistani Army — might be too busy jailing political opponents to fight militants.

The administration officials said they were also dismayed that General Musharraf last week released 25 militants in exchange for 213 soldiers captured by militants in August, and agreed to withdraw soldiers from certain areas of South Waziristan.

Since spring, concern has been growing in the armed forces that General Musharraf’s battle to remain in power and his recent political blunders have cost him popularity with the public and damaged the reputation of the armed forces, Western and Pakistani military analysts say.

The army’s poor performance battling militants in the country’s rugged tribal areas in the northwest has placed enormous strain on the army as well. Hundreds of soldiers have died, dozens have surrendered without a fight and militants have carried out beheadings to demoralize the force.

“The army is getting more and more concerned and worried and disturbed,” said Talat Masood, a retired general and political analyst. “They have a genuine engagement in the tribal belt of Frontier Province and Baluchistan,” he said, referring to armed clashes. “And now they have such a major confrontation between the military and civil sectors of society, and the lines are getting sharper.”

While the military supports the emergency, it is doing so with caution, and there are red lines the army will not cross, Western military officials in Pakistan said. “Kayani is loyal to Musharraf,” said one Western military official. “But also to Pakistan.”

One red line the military would probably not be prepared to cross would be if it were called on to maintain internal security anywhere beyond the areas of the insurgency. If widespread political protests were to emerge, the army could be called out to enforce law and order.

While no large-scale protests have emerged since the emergency was declared, the apparent collapse over the last week of American-backed talks to create a power-sharing deal between Ms. Bhutto and General Musharraf could lead to more street confrontations, diplomats said.

As General Musharraf has refused to lift his emergency declaration, lawmakers in Washington have stepped up threats to freeze aid payments to Islamabad.

“There is widespread disapproval in Congress of these actions,” said Representative Nita M. Lowey, a New York Democrat who is on the House Appropriations Committee. “As long as the emergency rule continues, I don’t know if we can provide direct cash assistance to the Musharraf government.”

But other top Democrats say they are wary about endorsing cuts in aid, citing concern that it could undermine efforts to fight Al Qaeda in Pakistan. And the Western military official in Pakistan warned that an aid cutoff could anger Pakistan’s army.

Other experts argue that pressure could build on General Musharraf if the corps commanders believed that the president’s actions threatened the $1 billion in annual aid Washington provides to Pakistan’s military.

“The military is pretty demoralized right now,” said Christine Fair, a Pakistan analyst in Washington. “But what keeps Musharraf in the position he is in with the military is the huge largess from the United States.”


David Rohde and Carlota Gall reported from Islamabad, Pakistan, and Thom Shanker contributed from Washington.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/washington/15policy.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&ref=world

It is unfortunate and alarming that the US Administration is doubting that Musharraf will be able to ride the storm!

Negroponte's arrival and talking to the Generals will only inflame further passions against Musharraf and play into the hands of the terrorists and inimical political parties who will start the usual trademark harangue.

It is interesting that while the US Administration wants to avoid a military coup and yet at the same time, finds Musharraf as a part of the problem!

While the US may feel that Musharraf is not the best alternative to a radical fundamentalist take over of Pakistan, a little heart searching would indicate that the others that the US may like to back, do not have the confidence of the Army to be so forthright in ensuring that the fundamentalist don't take over or at least do backseat driving.

Countrywide protest are on, but cutting off US aid will mean the end of the US influence in Pakistan and its stability!

Kayani maybe a pro US infantry officer, but if the situation gets worse, what are his options?

The US may want the Pakistani Army to be solely focussed on eliminating terrorism to suit her interests, but the terrorist threat is intertwined with the political will. Apart from Musharaf, notwithstanding brave words from BB, can she deliver? And anyway, the Pakistani military has always been behind the scenes and to believe it to be otherwise would be living in a Fools Paradise.

The US must tread softly and more so, carefully.
 
Sir they are not doubting rather Musharraf had already ditched their sinister plans by rejecting a number of things.

Now US is bent upon totally removing him by demanding his resignation from both offices.

Its very strange may be for many you but its the fact US have some other plans now sans Musharraf.

And these plans will be highly harmful for Pakistan
 
Sir they are not doubting rather Musharraf had already ditched their sinister plans by rejecting a number of things.

Now US is bent upon totally removing him by demanding his resignation from both offices.

Its very strange may be for many you but its the fact US have some other plans now sans Musharraf.

And these plans will be highly harmful for Pakistan

1)If a bunch or rag tag mullahs fight the armed forces and win
2)Lal masjid took months for the military to move in.
3)every time the terrorist run out of ammo to fight there is a cease fire
agreement
4)Zia's son remain as minister of religion.
5)The administration officials said they were also dismayed that General Musharraf last week released 25 militants in exchange for 213 soldiers captured by militants in August, and agreed to withdraw soldiers from certain areas of South Waziristan


You can Fool some of the people some of the time you cant fool all the people all the time.
 
I completely agree with you. This guy Mushrraf was working for the development of the country by introducing many new progressive things which have never been introduced in the past. The country was finally starting to do good with introduction of better procedures, rules for the rest to follow on the road towards progress.

So how I see is that all of these steps for the development of the country is not liked by some elements who wish to see Pakistan struggling forever, its economy deteriorating, 3rd grade quality of life, unrest, political resentment, unstability, unsurity, forever remain a struggling nation and keep struggling with no hope. This is how these elements want to see Pakistan as. Otherwise it is impossible to understand why the individuals of a nation who are so competent, hard working, ambitious, honest, intelligent would keep failing and never progress. It is the change in Pakistan's internal political affairs. Each new hungry, corrupt politician thinks of only his own stomach and luxury. Only this leader was competent enought o show this nation a direction towards the right path and establishing procedures.

As it all went opposite of what the US might have imagined and since it is more than 3-5 yreas, they need to create the year old fashion of 'revolution' or causing 'change' in the political scene once again. Only when there is political stability, a country can progres. Which is not liked and approved for Pakistan by these elements. so they have to carry out necessary measures to destanilize the country again. This is the reason musharaff os facing so many destructing elements and issues. The mentioned elements and gaining this by manipulating our own people against the govt.

Those people involved in all of this are too stupid to see that ANY govt. which works FOR the development of the country IS the kind of govt a country needs. And no corrupt leaders like in the past.

Can someone suggest why mushrraf's govt. is facing opposition inspite of all his work for the country which is never highlitened by the media? Because the negetivity spread by the media about every govt. every 3-5 yreas just causes more and more unstability and Pakistan ends up every time at square one, always struggling. not that it lacks anything. All it always lacked is a genuine, serious direction, a good sane leadership. Now that Pakistan has it, these elements will do all they can to take him off cz they never wanna see Pakistan progress.

All the people of Pakistan need to unite against these elements togather and refuse to accept to be manipulated by them against our govt. All the Pakistani people need to unite and support the govt in its good work, not be manipulated and understand the approach of these negative elements. Do not let them dictate what they want to see going on in your country. Do to your country what is good for it. No extremists, no destructive elements are good for us. Only positive outlook and an attitude to go with it but definitely not being a reason to make the govt. FALL and suffer all those usual complications country has always suffered in the past.

May God help us see the light and may the enemies of Pakistan who want to break it see their dream crashing down the ground. may they never success in their evil plans. may God bless pakistan. May God send angels from skies to protect it from these evil elements casuing our country this harm since 1947 causing infinite obstacles in the way of progress. and may God cause these evil plans to work against the same negative elements and break their own countries, disunite their own people, and always protect Pakistan from such people. May God turn all this harm they are struggling to cause to pakistan and its people to their own countries, their own people, their own land to give them the taste of their own wine. May Pakistan prosper. May people of Pakistan prosper and continue to prosper and be known as the most competent, most intelligent, most successful people on earth. We have the desire, we have the will, we have the dedication and we have what it takes to be one. So these destructive elements causing Pak govt, Pakistan and people of pakistan a fall all over again, may these elements fall and get so stuck up in their own never ending problems, troubles, complicated issues that they keep busy resolving them and never pay attention to what's going on in our country and stop dictating us what we need to do to progress.

I wish to see such Pakistan and such people of Pakistan in my life time. Im sure this will happen and it will happen ONLY IF we all unite against such forces and work to MAKE out country along with the govt. supporting it. Decline to be dictated by such elements and do the best for our country. never become and elements which can be used AGAINST Pakistan just like it is happening now. Every individual being manipulated by the media to unite against the military govt. They fail to see this MILITARY govt. is better than any democracy. so stop being manipulated people and stop wasting your time enchanting against the govt. Let them do their job bcz they are honest. But not these elements who are using you to cause the fall of this govt. so please wake up before further damage is done yet once again.

All of this media hype against the govt. is just to manipulate you, is just to cause your land harm, is just to break your country. Wake up and see the light. Crush these elements and support the govt. to see a better Pakistan.

Sir they are not doubting rather Musharraf had already ditched their sinister plans by rejecting a number of things.

Now US is bent upon totally removing him by demanding his resignation from both offices.

Its very strange may be for many you but its the fact US have some other plans now sans Musharraf.

And these plans will be highly harmful for Pakistan
 
This isnt the first time that US is ditching. Everytime her interest ran out, they ditch that person, that seems to be happening with musharraf too, BB is at the top list of washinton, they want her to be the next ruler of pakistan so that everything happens according to their wishes. Political leaders except of her should realize how far are they willing to go in favour of the US sidelining pakistan's interests. Instead for looking for US support to gain power, have a little faith in their own people.
 
the only option left for the US admn is to somehow get Gen Kiyani to do the needful...

Pakistan military's No. 2 seen as poker-faced, apolitical figure
Gen. Ashfaq Kiani is positioned to replace Musharraf if and when the president quits the army.
By Laura King, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 15, 2007
ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN -- While Gen. Pervez Musharraf was preparing this month to issue a sweeping emergency decree, his No. 2 in the military was nowhere to be seen in the corridors of power.

Instead, Gen. Ashfaq Kiani was far afield, visiting Pakistani troops engaged in a difficult and demoralizing struggle with Islamic insurgents in the jagged hills along the Afghan border.

In Kiani, Musharraf's heir apparent as head of the Pakistani military, Western military officials see a competent soldier who has little desire to involve himself in affairs of state -- something of a refreshing antidote, in their view, to an army chief like Musharraf, who led a coup in 1999 and is now deeply entangled in the repercussions of his emergency decree.

Kiani, 55, was promoted last month to full general and vice chief of the army staff, positioning him to replace Musharraf if and when the president quits the army as he has promised.

Tall and taciturn, a chain smoker through his adult life, Kiani rose through the ranks from a humble background -- unusual in an army whose senior officers are mostly the sons of the military aristocracy.

Yet he is a product of military tradition, hailing from a powerful clan in Punjab province, a longtime army recruiting hub.

Among his army mentors as he ascended to the rank of infantry commander was Musharraf, an ex-commando a decade his senior. But Kiani was not part of the general's inner circle of senior officers who helped him seize power in 1999.

Still, Kiani's close ties to Musharraf were apparent in 2003, when he was made corps commander in Rawalpindi, the seat of army headquarters just outside the capital, Islamabad. In the past, that job had been a springboard for staging coups, so the appointment demonstrated the general's trust in him.

The following year, Kiani became head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's spy agency, notorious for its ties with the Taliban. By the time of his tenure, the agency's senior ranks had largely been purged of insurgent sympathizers, but under Kiani's watch, the militants did regain strength and territory in Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal areas.

In another sign of Musharraf's reliance upon him, Kiani was handed the sensitive task of investigating a pair of assassination attempts against the president in late 2003. Nearly a dozen conspirators were convicted by a military tribunal, including at least one member of Musharraf's security detail.

In an army that generally dislikes and mistrusts opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, Kiani has long-standing ties with her. He was a member of her Cabinet, serving as her deputy military secretary during the early 1990s, and, at Musharraf's behest, he acted as a go-between for the two during months of power-sharing negotiations.

To U.S. military officials, Kiani is something of a known quantity. He has studied at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth in Kansas. He has met with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and is acquainted with senior staff at the Pentagon and CIA.

He is, however, a man who keeps his own counsel, and reveals little. A Western military official noted Kiani's ability to maintain a poker face even in times of tension.

"He listens, and he processes information. You see him in 'receive' mode," the official said.

Kiani is considered firmly in Musharraf's camp for now, but if history is any guide, the president will need to keep his guard up. A string of Pakistani leaders have been brought down by close aides.

"If the army thinks Musharraf has to go, I think Kiani will act against him," said Sajjan Gohel of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, a London-based think tank. "In Pakistani politics, the person you trust most is often the one who will betray you."

Kiani was present during a tense meeting this year at which the seeds of the current political crisis were sown.

Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, a major irritant to Musharraf, was brought on March 9 to military headquarters at Rawalpindi and harangued by the Pakistani leader and other senior officers to resign. He refused, and was suspended on corruption allegations. A lawyers movement in his support transformed itself into a nationwide pro-democracy movement whose assertiveness appears to have eventually pushed Musharraf to take the drastic step of declaring de facto martial law, dismissing Chaudhry in the process.

According to accounts by those present at the clamorous meeting in March, Kiani was the only officer in the room who said absolutely nothing.
 
"If the army thinks Musharraf has to go, I think Kiani will act against him," said Sajjan Gohel of the Asia-Pacific Foundation, a London-based think tank. "In Pakistani politics, the person you trust most is often the one who will betray you."

Unfortunate statement even before Kiani takes over as the Chief!

A bit unfair, if I may say.
 
That is what i feared in the other thread about US considering grabbing our nukes.

Thats the way US might operate to penetrate our army.

and Sir Salim i consider it good that such Unfortunate statement even before Kiani takes over as the Chief is in the media as it will give us room and time to think and analyse what was going on.

The Pak Army can have a strong gaured against such kinds of shceme of things
 
Well all of sudden govt stop operation in North Waziristan. Going aginst western will?
Sign treaty with Iran gas line, instead gas line from central asia. India is silent?
Instead India showed interest in central asian gas line from Afganistan to Pakistan.
Provide Gawdar port to China. Another action against the will of West?
But eventually all his actions are against the will of West, in favor of country progress...
??????????......
 
Well all of sudden govt stop operation in North Waziristan. Going aginst western will?
Sign treaty with Iran gas line, instead gas line from central asia. India is silent?
Instead India showed interest in central asian gas line from Afganistan to Pakistan.
Provide Gawdar port to China. Another action against the will of West?
But eventually all his actions are against the will of West, in favor of country progress...
??????????......

Haider, they are all in swat!
heard of the SCO (Shanghai Co-operation Organisation). this is the new political and security bloc developing. led by China and Russia, they would like to include the CAR, Iran, Afghan, Pakistan in a powerful bloc which will oppose NATO. Nato meanwhile wants to expand its influence in SE Asia. people are calling it NATO-East.
problem with pakistan is that it is a Non-Nato Ally and at the same time is close to China. now the question is which way will pakistan go?
pakistan is keeping its options open with IPI, gwadar, WoT. Musharraf has played his foreign cards perfectly but as i have earlier mentioned in another thread, he has committed 2 big errors of judgement.
1. taking on the CJ on march 9th
2. proclomation of NRO to allow BB to enter pakistan,,,,,,and the rest is history.
 
FATMAN , recently i listening a talk show about Pakistan. Don't remember the name of ambassador, but remember his statement, he said, Pakistan stuck in middle of nowhere. US want him to be fully Non-Nato ally and China,Russia is forcing Pakistan to be part of greater Russia-China economic and defense plan.
So, Pakistani people need to chose the side. In this region, China,Iran,Russia,India and some other countries of pacific rim already part of this Russian-China influence. But US don't want to see Pakistan roll out in fully co operative member of Shangai treaty or any other China-Russia broader economic plan.
 
so what does this mean...
the F-16s will keep on coming. the PAF loves them so much...
the JF-17s will keep on coming with the RD-93 engine. the PAF loves them so much...
isnt it great to have the BEST of both worlds... but seriously, yes Pakistan will need to make some choices soon.
 
SOME choices SOON, i think now ,,, we pakistanis were lazy .
when it comes , on making decicions.
but , we hope that pakarmy will start making its own defence think tank
which can think its options freely in any given situation .
pakistan needs open policy when it comes to buying weapons.

because , west never can be trusted , west never deliverd what was required and when was required to pakistan.

and geting support from friends, like CHINA should be more and more vitalized if pakistan wants tobe in list of countries, who can defend themselves with thier own range of weapons and systems .


afterall . we got JF-17 , which is a real pice of art . it is a huge step as far as

our airforce is concern, in frm of JF-17 ,pakistan had a freehand, in air so it is mostly accepted theory, that if we (PAKISTAN) become selfsafficiant in making of modren weaponry.
hopefully all the westrn sellers mainly USA, wilbe willing to give pakistan more than old F-16s.
i mean in the case of india , USA had tried to sell them F-18s .
because of the fact that india doesnt show the need to buy even F-18s
USA , willbe willing to give them more?
 
we had made a mistake in the past of not joining russia and going to US. This kind of blunder should not be committed again, we as a small nation need to join in hands with both china and russia inorder to get out of this ******* blackmailing of the US. besides once a strong block in southasia is formed, which i beileve india too will be a part of it, can ease tensions between the two countries. One country of the same block wont attack another country of the same block.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom