Two Nation Theory

[Awesome]

Pls do not judge Indians, for consequences politically motivated acts.

Ok lets assume Hindus, Sikhs , Christans etc of India were evil and it was not possible for Muslims to stay with them and required a separate homeland.
So Pakistan was created.

Pakistan,being a far more homogeneous state has very few minorities has serious fault line running through it.

Even amongst muslims , you have found so many ways to discriminate amongst each other.

You have-

Shia-Sunni conflict
Sunni-Ahmadi conflict
West pakistani -East Pakistani conflict
Taliban's Takfiri ideology .

This goes out to show that failure to co-exist inside united India,was not all because of evil Hindus or other communities in India, but a state of mind which continues till date.

Over simplifications. The people who fought against Indian tyranny to make Pakistan and the people who do engage in Oppression of minorities in Pakistan are at opposite ends of the poles. You would see this most visibly in threads where we discuss the plight of minorities of Pakistan.

In fact I would like to point out here that it were the Mullahs of Pakistan that sided with the Indian congress even back then. They very rudely termed Pakistan as Napakistan.

These Mullahs and your tyrants had a lot in common.

 

[humblehobbes]

Asim! Please enumerate the Indian Tyrranies !

 

[blueoval79]

Nobody said getting secularism is easy. Look at Pakistan, the leader talked about secularism till the very end, the next generation effed it all up.

The reason that Indian government appeases Mullahs is so that they don't have to act upon the blatant acts of violation of secularism. The state of Gujarat was killing Muslims in vengeance - 'Secular' India did nothing but re-elect Modi.

Pakistanis have only one set of eye glasses when it comes to India.....and it is colored with saffron...and Gujarat.

Unfortunately....for your guys....Modi is being elected by Muslims as well...because of the development work he has done over the years...... Its strange ...that when Muslims in Gujarat are reelecting him...only Pakistanis have a problem with him.....

The Muslims who will vote for Modi

Modi asks Muslims to choose development over vote bank politcs

http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi-wins-gujarat-again/

And please come out of this state sponsored rioting thingi.......No state wants riots....they happen....and at times some sympathizer in the state machinery play along....you can not say Indian law supports rioting and killing.

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

Over simplifications. The people who fought against Indian tyranny to make Pakistan and the people who do engage in Oppression of minorities in Pakistan are at opposite ends of the poles. You would see this most visibly in threads where we discuss the plight of minorities of Pakistan.

In fact I would like to point out here that it were the Mullahs of Pakistan that sided with the Indian congress even back then. They very rudely termed Pakistan as Napakistan.

These Mullahs and your tyrants had a lot in common.

Please could you elaborate on the point highlighted above. Which act tyranny are you talking about??

 

[Awesome]

only Pakistanis have a problem with him.....

And please come out of this state sponsored rioting thingi.......No state wants riots....they happen....and at times some sympathizer in the state machinery play along....you can not say Indian law supports rioting and killing.

Oh man denial, you can't even own up to it and would like to bury it under the rug. This is the spirit of the two nation theory, Hindu big brotherism is not something we can live with.

 

[toxic_pus]

You subjugate your own laws as I've cited from incidents that culminated at Gujarat.

Which law 'culminated' into Gujrat.

Your Hindu laws, heck you even have Muslim laws. Its all wrong.

Although I would personally prefer a unified civil law (those laws are all civil laws and not criminal laws, in case you are wondering) I still don't see how it is against the grain of 'secularism'. Can you explain?

 

[Bang Galore]

This is the thing, Indians need to pick up a dictionary. Respect and having multicultural friends has nothing to do with secularism. This is the typical Indian excuse, Oh we're so secular look at Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan.

Secularism is separation of state and religion.

Your state is siding with Hindus with the destruction of the Babri Masjid

How so?

Your state perpetuated the massacre of 2000 Muslims in Gujarat to avenge the deaths of 50 Hindus

Sad & a very big blot but the state's role was one of omission, not of commision

For believes in 'ahimsa' you sure massacre a lot of people now and then.

As opposed to you who have never stopped.

Secularism is separation of state and religion. If you're not even able to prosecute genocidal maniacs due to religious considerations, you're not a secularism. You're a big black mark on secularism for that matter.

They are being prosecuted.

Your Hindu laws, heck you even have Muslim laws. Its all wrong.

Those are Civil laws governing marriage, inheritance etc. The constitution asks for a uniform civil code but it has been hold hostage to the feelings of the muslim community

Separation of state and religion. Your state can't support or subjugate one religion over the other.

It does not. Prove otherwise.

You must follow Jinnah to be truly secular. Not Gandhi - a theocratic leader

.
As Jaswant Singh says - We do. You don't.

I think it all made no sense to Jinnah too, hence he pushed for autonomy between the two nations - Indian Hindutva brigade and the rest of India

.

Is that why most minorities and a third of the Muslim population chose to stay back with the Hindutva brigade?

 

[blueoval79]

Oh man denial, you can't even own up to it and would like to bury it under the rug. This is the spirit of the two nation theory, Hindu big brotherism is not something we can live with.

Thats so Pseudo-smart... pick up only part of the post that suits you...hows that for Bigotry....

Anyways.....play along.......

Nothing is buried under the rug....had that been true...this Gujarat thingi...would have been dead and buried by now...

No one is asking you to live with Hindu bigotry....


Anyways ...I am still waiting for a list of things that a Pakistani thinks Indians should be doing to be called a secular nation.....

 

[AbuSalam]

I think India & Pakistan has learned a lot and suffered a lot being 2 nations !!
Hindu~Muslim conflicts in India.
Shia~Sunni Conflicts in Pakistan.
Nations divided on communal lines have no guarantee that all will coexist peacefully..I think this 2 nation theory is a farce by leaders..

 

[PracticalGuy]

That argument is only perpetuated in Indian school of though, it helps put partial blame on Jinnah. There is no comparison on what sort of a person Jinnah was and what was Nehru.

Jinnah knew VERY well that he would not get to rule Pakistan. He was fighting a terminal illness, something he and his Hindu doctor kept hidden from the world since they would've delayed the partition till he died. TB was totally incurable, Jinnah fought for Pakistan not for political power and as he had predicted, he barely lived on for another year before handing over all his efforts to the next generation to take forward.

You can blame the next generations, but not the ideologies that Jinnah had which culminated in the foundation of Pakistan.

I wasnt "blaming" any one for the partition... as I think every power hungry politician of that times was equally responsible for not having being accommodative enough to each other.. ok for argument sake . tell me what would have happened if Nehru complied and gave the prime ministership to Jinnah.. Pakistan would have never born and where would the Muslim oppression have gone then?

 

[Awesome]

Thats so Pseudo-smart... pick up only part of the post that suits you...hows that for Bigotry....

Anyways.....play along.......

Nothing is buried under the rug....had that been true...this Gujarat thingi...would have been dead and buried by now...

No one is asking you to live with Hindu bigotry....


Anyways ...I am still waiting for a list of things that a Pakistani thinks Indians should be doing to be called a secular nation.....

Oh man how is that bigotry? I wonder what bigotry means in India now

Your lessons in secularism can be discussed in a thread for it, for now, this would suffice that no one in Pakistan ever believed in Indian secularism and got sick of tyrants who wanted to push forth Hindu ideals upon all Indians.

Gandhi: "I'm a Hindu therefore I'm an Indian"

 

[Awesome]

I wasnt "blaming" any one for the partition... as I think every power hungry politician of that times was equally responsible for not having being accommodative enough to each other.. ok for argument sake . tell me what would have happened if Nehru complied and gave the prime ministership to Jinnah.. Pakistan would have never born and where would the Muslim oppression have gone then?

You should be "blaming" Nehru. You can't draw Parallels between the Heroes and the villains of the story.

Who knows what would've happened. Perhaps the mistrust wouldn't have gone this far. You know what happened after Nehru backed off? The Indian Muslims beat out a country through sheer force. This fight rages on even today.

 

[blueoval79]

Oh man how is that bigotry? I wonder what bigotry means in India now

Well you can go ahead and read something on Bigotry then: This will help....Bigotry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your lessons in secularism can be discussed in a thread for it

In simple terms.... you guys don't know how to define secularism but you love bashing India over it....

for now, this would suffice that no one in Pakistan ever believed in Indian secularism and got sick of tyrants who wanted to push forth Hindu ideals upon all Indians.

And they created a country where even Muslims are running around using Blasphemy laws killing Muslims....in a race to claim who is a Muslim.

Gandhi: "I'm a Hindu therefore I'm an Indian"

Thats what Gandhi said...and I don't care....catch hold of him for saying that.

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

Oh man how is that bigotry? I wonder what bigotry means in India now

Your lessons in secularism can be discussed in a thread for it, for now, this would suffice that no one in Pakistan ever believed in Indian secularism and got sick of tyrants who wanted to push forth Hindu ideals upon all Indians.

Gandhi: "I'm a Hindu therefore I'm an Indian"

Again pls could elaborate on these "Hindu ideals" which are being pushed on all Indians.

 

[PracticalGuy]

Oh man how is that bigotry? I wonder what bigotry means in India now

Your lessons in secularism can be discussed in a thread for it, for now, this would suffice that no one in Pakistan ever believed in Indian secularism and got sick of tyrants who wanted to push forth Hindu ideals upon all Indians.

Gandhi: "I'm a Hindu therefore I'm an Indian"

and still the very Indian secularism made the Indian muslims very succesful in the Hindu India upto being the India's first citizen.. on the contrary I dont even find any non muslims "allowed" to be part of the Pakistan's elite... and still you conveniently chose to ignore the question that why these very Hindu ideals didnt push all the muslims to make Pakistan their homeland instead prosper under the Indian secular fabric how ever "bigot" it might be..

and India's Muslim population out numbering the chosen land of Muslim Pakistan clearly makes the two nation theory fall apart conceptually..