Turkish Military is better than IDF

[Foinikas]

On the Navy side, Turkey will always have the advantage lol no western help will fix that. Barbaros modernisation is already underway while Hydra class modernisation is nowhere in sight. The gap is only widening. STM-500 "prototype" is being built alongside the Reis class on the submarine side. Turkish Type 209s were already younger and more numerous. I am so fucking proud of the Turkish Navy.

That's the problem. They let the Navy stay behind.

The new frigate acquisition program was asking for: 4 new frigates,2 frigates as intermediate solution and modernisation of the 4 MEKO 200HN.

It was a tough contest,the Dutch and British were offering the best intermediate solution: Karl Doorman and Type 23.

The Dutch came with the Sigma 11515 frigate and the British with the Arrowhead 140.

The Germans and Dutch were the logical choice for upgrading the MEKO,but the Germans knew they weren't a favorite because in 2020 they remained silent during Erdogan's provocations against us and even supported Turkey in some matters,for example invited Turkey,but didn't invite us for the talks about Libya. So they knew they probably lost the contest due to political reasons. They did however offer the MEKO A200 design as a frigate and I think a free submarine.

The Italians came with the FREMM Bergamini and the Americans the HF2.

Basically,don't let me mumble here,check out this article. I was reading it last night,it talks about the strengths and weaknesses of all the offers:

The Greek Naval Procurement Program: One chance to get it right - Naval Post- Naval News and Information

The current procurement competition for the Greek Navy is probably the most interesting procurement program on the planet right now, not least because the Greeks have managed to force the crème de la crème of Western Naval manufacturers into a competition of rarely seen competitiveness.

navalpost.com

In the end,the French came with the best delivery time,lowered prices,a mutual defense treaty and the promise of a new ECM for the ships. And they got the deal. Still,from the 3+1 option,we only ordered 3 ships and not 4. And we delayed the corvette acquisition for 2 years and still haven't decided.

 

[Foinikas]

If Greece gets the F35 as late as 2028 Turkey will have no problems. But even if Greece just got 12 F35s for a single squadron now that would be a big problem for Turkey. Because in war time more could be delivered and there would be pilots ready for it.

Yeah,apparently the government has been obsessed with getting F-35s. And I wonder why they didn't insist on getting some 6 or 12 of them already. They did ask for simulators and have been bragging about this,but the first aircraft coming in 2028? That's way too late. I know LM has a lot of orders to handle right now but...couldn't they have prioritised at least 6 of them to give us? Or from their own Air Force?

Modern IFVs such as KF41 Lynx are ridiculously expensive. I don't think Greece will be able to get many of them. I don't think it's a good option at all. Most likely Greece will get some used M2 Bradleys from the uncle sam. Because M2 Bradley is being replaced soon.

Actually there was a LoR sent or supposed to be sent from our side some months ago,we asked for 300 M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA
and if I remember correctly the Americans said ok,but...since then there's no news about it.

Greece needs to invest more in defence industries, it's just the elephant in the room here. You can't compete with Imported weapons

Yeah,they neglected the Hellenic defence sector,left it to go almost bankrupt and now they just suddenly remembered "oh we must make drones,oh we must make deals with other countries".

 

[LegionnairE]

That's the problem. They let the Navy stay behind.

The new frigate acquisition program was asking for: 4 new frigates,2 frigates as intermediate solution and modernisation of the 4 MEKO 200HN.

It was a tough contest,the Dutch and British were offering the best intermediate solution: Karl Doorman and Type 23.

The Dutch came with the Sigma 11515 frigate and the British with the Arrowhead 140.

The Germans and Dutch were the logical choice for upgrading the MEKO,but the Germans knew they weren't a favorite because in 2020 they remained silent during Erdogan's provocations against us and even supported Turkey in some matters,for example invited Turkey,but didn't invite us for the talks about Libya. So they knew they probably lost the contest due to political reasons. They did however offer the MEKO A200 design as a frigate and I think a free submarine.

The Italians came with the FREMM Bergamini and the Americans the HF2.

Basically,don't let me mumble here,check out this article. I was reading it last night,it talks about the strengths and weaknesses of all the offers:

The Greek Naval Procurement Program: One chance to get it right - Naval Post- Naval News and Information

The current procurement competition for the Greek Navy is probably the most interesting procurement program on the planet right now, not least because the Greeks have managed to force the crème de la crème of Western Naval manufacturers into a competition of rarely seen competitiveness.

navalpost.com

In the end,the French came with the best delivery time,lowered prices,a mutual defense treaty and the promise of a new ECM for the ships. And they got the deal. Still,from the 3+1 option,we only ordered 3 ships and not 4. And we delayed the corvette acquisition for 2 years and still haven't decided.

First of all, that's a very good article. And it comes to the same conclusion that I have, that the best option is the Italian one, But since we cannot know what was discussed behind closed doors so we can oly speculate what the thought process was. But I have the sneaking suspicion that that defense treaty was decisive and Athens thinks they bought a friend.

Yeah,they neglected the Hellenic defence sector,left it to go almost bankrupt and now they just suddenly remembered "oh we must make drones,oh we must make deals with other countries".

According to what I've heard, Greek state owned naval shipyards are just in such a bad shape that foreign companies are asking incredible amounts of money and Greek domestic companies are just too small to carry the burden. Turkey didn't just sell Pakistan the Milgem corvettes, but we also modernised their naval shipyards in Karachi and that's why we're seeing domestic Pakistani design based on Milgem now that is Jinnah class frigate. It will be very funny when Pakistan offers it to Greece.

While we're talking about Lynx and M2 Bradley, ELVO gets no work and stagnates and deteriorates as a company. The state just isn't giving enough contracts to the domestic companies.

The Germans and Dutch were the logical choice for upgrading the MEKO,but the Germans knew they weren't a favorite because in 2020 they remained silent during Erdogan's provocations against us and even supported Turkey in some matters,for example invited Turkey,but didn't invite us for the talks about Libya. So they knew they probably lost the contest due to political reasons. They did however offer the MEKO A200 design as a frigate and I think a free submarine.

Another important point is that Turkey has active deployed troops in Libya That's why it's taken so seriously. We're constantly fighting somewhere in the region. And we have more experience. This could be even more important than equipment

 

[Foinikas]

First of all, that's a very good article. And it comes to the same conclusion that I have, that the best option is the Italian one, But since we cannot know what was discussed behind closed doors so we can oly speculate what the thought process was. But I have the sneaking suspicion that that defense treaty was decisive and Athens thinks they bought a friend.

Yes...some guy said at a site "The FREMM has always been the desire of the Hellenic Navy",actually the FREMM Bergamini as described in the article,is a very good choice. But some other guys have mentioned in comments on defence sites,that Italians were actually offering it with only 16 AA cells and/or some other very basic stuff. I don't remember exactly what,but it was supposedly a bad deal. I don't know what exactly,but...anyway. Yeah,the French came with a mutual defence pact and that was very important back then. Remember,Erdogan was at the height of his provocations and expansionism,in 2020 we had the "skirmishes" in the Aegean,we had the immigrant/refugee push on our borders with Turkish police and Gendarmiere supporting them fully. And from all the Europeans involved,the Germans were absent or pro-Turkish,the British didn't care,the Dutch were silent,the Spaniards were building the Anadolu,the Italians were even cooperating with you guys in Libya...only the French stood for us.

Now,here's the thing: A greek defence site reported this year,that Thales told them they're working on a brand new state-of-the-art ECM for the FDI and supposedly the Horizon class as well. They said it will be ready in 2025,when we will be getting the first ship delivered.

Some have stated concern about the Nettuno on the Bergamini. Of course,our "professor" MMM-E here,has mocked the Nettuno,but he's just him. He would mock the Arleigh Burke if you put it against the Barbaros class.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Yes...some guy said at a site "The FREMM has always been the desire of the Hellenic Navy",actually the FREMM Bergamini as described in the article,is a very good choice. But some other guys have mentioned in comments on defence sites,that Italians were actually offering it with only 16 AA cells and/or some other very basic stuff. I don't remember exactly what,but it was supposedly a bad deal. I don't know what exactly,but...anyway. Yeah,the French came with a mutual defence pact and that was very important back then. Remember,Erdogan was at the height of his provocations and expansionism,in 2020 we had the "skirmishes" in the Aegean,we had the immigrant/refugee push on our borders with Turkish police and Gendarmiere supporting them fully. And from all the Europeans involved,the Germans were absent or pro-Turkish,the British didn't care,the Dutch were silent,the Spaniards were building the Anadolu,the Italians were even cooperating with you guys in Libya...only the French stood for us.

Now,here's the thing: A greek defence site reported this year,that Thales told them they're working on a brand new state-of-the-art ECM for the FDI and supposedly the Horizon class as well. They said it will be ready in 2025,when we will be getting the first ship delivered.

Some have stated concern about the Nettuno on the Bergamini. Of course,our "professor" MMM-E here,has mocked the Nettuno,but he's just him. He would mock the Arleigh Burke if you put it against the Barbaros class.

Why does Greece support Israel's killing of Palestinian children?

 

[Foinikas]

Why does Greece support Israel's killing of Palestinian children?

It doesn't. Find a new hobby other than trying to flamebait.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

It doesn't. Find a new hobby other than trying to flamebait.

You lie, you provoke conflicts, you spread Jewish propaganda, you support Israel's killing of Palestinian children.

 

[Hellfire2006]

Pakistan still has Azad Kashmir, so there is no complete victory for India over Pakistan

depends on how you look at it, we partitioned them in 2 pieces and made present day bangladesh which accounted for half of pakistan's economy and population setting them back by decades, and also took 93,000 PoWs , a scale never seen before since the end of ww2, it was easily a decisive victory for indian army and bangladeshi guerillas. as for kashmir, we control 80% of the kashmir region, while pakistan only holds only 20%, but pakistan has most of Gilgit Baltistan which is different from kashmir. india is pretty satisified with its control over most of the resource rich valley while pakistan got the outer hills. pakistan knows this and they tried to use insurgents to dislodge india from kashmir, but the kashmir insurgency has miserably failed and defeated. india's part of kashmir is the most important not only because of the valley , but also because all major pakistani rivers come from our side and hence we can easily control the flow of rivers downstream including the indus, which is the lifeline of pakistan. I am not hesitant in calling it a victory
.

The PKK's military wing has always been defeated and has never won a conventional war.

pkk is not an army , its a militia, its not suppossed to fight a conventional war, its main tactics revolve around guerilla warfare just like any other militia, besides it still exists and has done attacks on turkey time and time again yet you couldn't reduce their strength even after 40 years while india has eliminated atleast 8 insurgencies including 5 large ones.

PKK does not exist in Turkey, it exists in Iraq.

Meanwhile, Indian army's inability to stop the conflict in Manipur

the fact that you are saying this shows how ill informed you are, right now almost all violence has seized in manipur, the conflict in manipur was between 2 ethinic groups , not an insurgency, hence the government deployed central police forces to handle the situation with a small 7,000 strong army contingent, the army is kept on standby in manipur just in case of an extreme situation, the central police forces are responsible for day to day monitoring of the situation.

or the maoist militias in Naxile is even more embarrassing for a superpower.

the army has never been deployed against naxals even once , because they are our own countrymen and hence we use police forces to fight them, the force combatting naxalism is called the central reserve police force , there is no need for army deployment there because the situation is under control. in 2001 naxals had a presence in 10 states, today their grip has been reduced to a small forest area of 5000 square kilometers in a single state, 98% of naxal areas have been regained by the central police. Naxals have been militarily defeated by central reserve police force https://theprint.in/opinion/from-bi...ts-50-yr-war-with-left-wing-extremism/254462/

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/is-the-maoist-rebellion-on-the-brink-of-defeat-in-india-52584

 

[Foinikas]

You lie, you provoke conflicts, you spread Jewish propaganda, you support Israel's killing of Palestinian children.

Where did I lie exactly? Where did I spread jewish propaganda? And where did I support Israel's killing of Palestinian children?

Provide screenshots.

 

[retaxis]

Turkish Army easly beat PKK in Turkish soil
therefore PKK founded terror camps in Iran ,Iraq and Syria since 1990




GDP Nominal

Turkiye : $1.154 trillion
S.Arabia : $1.069 trillion
Israel : $521 billion
Iran : $366 billion

Turkiye has bigger economy than Israel+Iran combined

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gulf Arabs even dont know how to fight ... lol
Their so-called state-of-the weapons are useless

Reality hurts anti-Turkiye users like You


Egypt,S.Arabia,Iran are backward Countries to compare with Turkiye in technology and Defense Industry

and Israel is nothing without USA


State of the art weapons for the Turkish Armed Forces ... now and soon
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And many more ......

Our ex vassals Greece , Iran , S.Arabia , Egypt , Israel only can dream about Turksh Defense Industry

However you want to spin it, your economy is the same if not worse than saudi arabia. Iran is more independent with their weapons and egypt got better weapons than you and a large population. Israel also very rich per capita and has nuclear weapons and full western support. You are in a region with many relevant actors, you are not a regional power who is sticking out above the others like a USA or China (regional power not super power). Israel is far richer per capita, saudi far more resources and support of 300mil + arabs. Egypt has allies in the gulf area and gets the best european weapons and Iran has been preparing war for last 35years. You have been fighting PKK with little success and you want to talk about regional power being far greater than those countries, thats a joke and thats the way a person with common sense will always interpret it as. You can compare weapons you will get in 2030 compared to weapons someone else got right now all you want but thats retarded, comparing your arsenal to regional players, you do not stand head and shoulders above anyone so you better focus on cleaning up the PKK before you talk.

You lie, you provoke conflicts, you spread Jewish propaganda, you support Israel's killing of Palestinian children.

bruh just let him be. We talk and he is respectful and it prevents this place from becoming an echo chamber of people jerking each other of.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Where did I lie exactly? Where did I spread jewish propaganda? And where did I support Israel's killing of Palestinian children?

Provide screenshots.

1. We all know that Israel is genocidating Palestine. But you refuse to accuse Israel.

2. We all know that the US supports Israel's genocide against Palestine. But you refuse to blame US.

3. Your only job is to defame China. Cover up Israel and US crimes against humanity.

You serve Jewish propaganda agencies by diverting conflicts and attention.

You. Greeks. Without humanity and shame.

 

[Foinikas]

1. We all know that Israel is genocidating Palestine. But you refuse to accuse Israel.

1.I have condemned Israel numerous times

2. We all know that the US supports Israel's genocide against Palestine. But you refuse to blame US.

2.I condemn USA when they are in the wrong. Your obsession with USA as a Chinese,is not my problem though.

3. Your only job is to defame China. Cover up Israel and US crimes against humanity.

3.More likely your job is to propagate the superiority and moral high ground of China on the forum.

ou serve Jewish propaganda agencies by diverting conflicts and attention.

I ask you again: How? Explain and post screenshots if you think that you have evidence.

You. Greeks. Without humanity and shame.

You said the same about @White and Green with M/S who is a Pakistani Muslim. You said the same for Turks as well.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

1.I have condemned Israel numerous times



2.I condemn USA when they are in the wrong. Your obsession with USA as a Chinese,is not my problem though.


3.More likely your job is to propagate the superiority and moral high ground of China on the forum.


I ask you again: How? Explain and post screenshots if you think that you have evidence.


You said the same about @White and Green with M/S who is a Pakistani Muslim. You said the same for Turks as well.

1. No. You do not condemn Israel.

2. No. You have always supported the US and Israel.

3. If the US and Israel have superiority and moral high ground. You can also "propaganda" US and Israel. Instead of slandering China every day.

Does anyone think what I'm talking about is not true?

Which of my views is not a fact?

Who thinks I'm lying and promoting just like you guys? @Foinikas @White and Green with M/S

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Israeli Army can not enter even the outskirts of Gaza .. so pathetic Army


on the other hand
A total of 35.786 PKK-YPG and ISIS terrorists have been neutralized by the Turkish Army as a result of operations since July 24, 2015 in Turkiye , Iraq and Syria


between 8 agust 2015 and 9 march 2016 , Turkish Army killed thousands of PKK terrorists in 22 Turkish districts

No any civilian loss .. because Turkiye did not use Air Force
just fight hand to hand in urban warfare




Its an insult to Turkiye to compare with Israel
We will never leave 10.000 of innocent deads behind us just like Israel

Turkish military operation in Syria

Operation Euphrates Shield

Operation Olive Branch​

Operation Spring Shield​

Operation Peace Spring

Turkish Armed Forces killed 3.322 Assad Regime militia including 6 generals and Iran backed Hezbollah and IRGC militia in a week in Idlib/Syria

also Turkish Armed Forces destroyed

3 UAVs
2 SU-24 Fighter Jets
1 L-39 Aircraft
8 Helicopters
8 Air Defense Systems
155 Tanks
51 Howitzers
52 MLRS
29 AFVs
68 Military Vehicles
15 Anti Tank Weapons
36 Pick-up mounted anti aircraft guns
49 Ammunition Trucks
10 Ammunition Storage
2 Missile Systems


We have seen pathetic Israeli Army against HEZBOLLAH in 2006

No One believes your egoistic nonsense without any back up

1. No. You do not condemn Israel.

2. No. You have always supported the US and Israel.

3. If the US and Israel have superiority and moral high ground. You can also "propaganda" US and Israel. Instead of slandering China every day.

Does anyone think what I'm talking about is not true?

Which of my views is not a fact?

Who thinks I'm lying and promoting just like you guys? @Foinikas @White and Green with M/S

Go fcuk yourself the reality is not you're thinking

 

[Foinikas]

1. No. You do not condemn Israel.

2. No. You have always supported the US and Israel.

3. If the US and Israel have superiority and moral high ground. You can also "propaganda" US and Israel. Instead of slandering China every day.

Does anyone think what I'm talking about is not true?

Which of my views is not a fact?

Who thinks I'm lying and promoting just like you guys? @Foinikas @White and Green with M/S

Stop your nonsense. You're the guy who has two accounts just to come here and flamebait all day.

That's the only thing you do. You lie,to flamebait others into starting fights.