Turkish Infantry - Rifles , reconsideration?

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Seems like a wonderful , well thought of machine

Should Pakistan order 1 Million MPT-76

Fantastic win ratio , so far worked great in Battlefields

Seems like it has fantastic versatility , would be a great modernized option

 

[Philip the Arab]

Hmmm, do you know pricing compared to other options like HK416, Bren, and other rifles?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

• MPT Weight 7 Pounds
• G3A3 Weighty 10 Pounds (Existing Rifles)

• Rifles look bad arse and are lighter then current rifles in Pakistan

The Transparent Bullet observer is a great feature

• The Visual Visors on the gun look pretty neat as well lot of options

Nice touch with the handle , for people who like the added comfort while eliminating enemy troops

 

[Rafi]

Infantry weapons are not a high priority, what we have is adequate.

 

[Zarvan]

Infantry weapons are not a high priority, what we have is adequate.

Not a wise decision as after all infantry is still the biggest part of your force.

Seems like a wonderful , well thought of machine

Should Pakistan order 1 Million MPT-76

Fantastic win ratio , so far worked great in Battlefields

Seems like it has fantastic versatility , would be a great modernized option

This rifle was among those which were tested by Pakistan but Pakistan wasn't satisfied with it. Main issue came in summer trials.

 

[Rafi]

Not a wise decision as after all infantry is still the biggest part of your force.


This rifle was among those which were tested by Pakistan but Pakistan wasn't satisfied with it. Main issue came in summer trials.

It is our infantry weapons are combat proven, time tested, what we are spending our money on is new tanks, artillery, mortars, PGM's. We are spending our money wisely.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A small modernization drive , 100,000 rifles at a time would be ok I think

 

[Zarvan]

It is our infantry weapons are combat proven, time tested, what we are spending our money on is new tanks, artillery, mortars, PGM's. We are spending our money wisely.

Details on mortars and PGMs will be preferred

 

[Rafi]

Details on mortars and PGMs will be preferred

In the pipeline, will be revealed when we need it to be.

 

[HAIDER]

Let me put this in context of a specific battlefield condition. Pakistan is one of the largest users of the G3 rifle alongside Turkey and Iran. Many people ask questions that why Pakistani army uses this old rifle and large caliber. The answer lies in the very detailed specifications of this gun. The gun is designed for medium ranged combats and is very effective against targets at 500 meters. This gun can penetrate brick walls and bunker walls without concrete as well as Level 3 body armour which is used by the Indians. Also it can also be converted into a sniper rifle with small modifications and serve as a general purpose sniper rifle. The rate of fire is extremely fast.

The G3’s abundance isn’t due to the lack of another option but its effectiveness in the conditions of the subcontinental battlefield. Its length and 7.62x51 Nato cartridge makes it the equivalent of a makeshift marksmen rifle in the Kashmir Line of Control where Pakistani troops can snipe away with abandon at their Indian opponents.

G3A3 and G3P4 built by Pakistan Ordinance Factories (POF Wah)

G3A3 and G3M (Pakistani tactical version of G3)

G3S(Pakistani Carbine version of G3) and G3M, the DMR MK1 is a Designated Marksman Rifle derived from the G3

Now the Indian choice of small arms take a different approach, the rifles utilized by the Indian Army is a mix of weapons chambered in the 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 NATO.
7.62x39 rifles:

• Vz 58 (Czech Short Stroke Piston rifle)
• AR-M1 / AR-M1F (Bulgarian version of the AKM)
• SAR-1 (Romanian version of the AKM)
• MPiKM (East German version of the AKM)

5.56x45 Nato:

• Insas 1B1 ( Indian rifle possibly derived from Israeli Galil)

Now according to the Indian Strategic Frontier Research Organisation “Pakistani G3’s will out shoot a Insas 1B1/AKM/VZ58’s due to it’s inherent ballistic nature” thus making the G3 the lord of the battlefield along the Indo Pakistani border

India Pakistan Proxy War - Tactics And Equipment

However here was a time the G3 could not be effective which was when Pakistan engaged in COIN operations against Indian backed militants in its Northwest. In the Urban Close Quarter combat the mighty G-3 was at a disadvantage due to its small 20 rounds magazine, heavy recoil and large frame. The Pak Army also grew to disdain the MP-5(also produced under license by POF Wah) in such an environment due to its 9mm bullets that didn’t have much stopping power and pitiful range. It was in this time that the Type 56(Chinese version of the AKM) entered as a saviour. Already present for limited use in high altitude warfare such as Siachen where the G3 could not function properly due to adverse conditions, the Type 56(56–2 to be specific) also saw combat in the LoC as a potent weapon during cross border raids. This CQB availability and its rugged reliability made this Chinese version of the AKM a battle buddy of Pakistani counter terror troops who affectionately call it as “SMG” (probably to spite the MP5).

So in the end, yes the G3 is still a pretty effective rifle in certain conditions though its weight, recoil and less space for modifications are very challenging.

 

[Metal 0-1]

G3S(Pakistani Carbine version of G3) and G3M, the DMR MK1 is a Designated Marksman Rifle derived from the G3

We need to phase out old G-3s, and start giving our troops G-3Ss, G-3Ms and DMR MK1s. One Infantry division at a time...
Through some optics on it like Hybrid sights(Aimpoint Comp4+3x Magnifier OR EO-Tech+3x Magnifier) judt like Portuguese have done with thier G-3s.

Here Portuguese are in firefight with rebels in Central African Republic. See they clearing out buildings with G-3s..

 

[Yasser76]

Let me put this in context of a specific battlefield condition. Pakistan is one of the largest users of the G3 rifle alongside Turkey and Iran. Many people ask questions that why Pakistani army uses this old rifle and large caliber. The answer lies in the very detailed specifications of this gun. The gun is designed for medium ranged combats and is very effective against targets at 500 meters. This gun can penetrate brick walls and bunker walls without concrete as well as Level 3 body armour which is used by the Indians. Also it can also be converted into a sniper rifle with small modifications and serve as a general purpose sniper rifle. The rate of fire is extremely fast.

The G3’s abundance isn’t due to the lack of another option but its effectiveness in the conditions of the subcontinental battlefield. Its length and 7.62x51 Nato cartridge makes it the equivalent of a makeshift marksmen rifle in the Kashmir Line of Control where Pakistani troops can snipe away with abandon at their Indian opponents.

G3A3 and G3P4 built by Pakistan Ordinance Factories (POF Wah)

G3A3 and G3M (Pakistani tactical version of G3)

G3S(Pakistani Carbine version of G3) and G3M, the DMR MK1 is a Designated Marksman Rifle derived from the G3

Now the Indian choice of small arms take a different approach, the rifles utilized by the Indian Army is a mix of weapons chambered in the 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 NATO.
7.62x39 rifles:

• Vz 58 (Czech Short Stroke Piston rifle)
• AR-M1 / AR-M1F (Bulgarian version of the AKM)
• SAR-1 (Romanian version of the AKM)
• MPiKM (East German version of the AKM)

5.56x45 Nato:

• Insas 1B1 ( Indian rifle possibly derived from Israeli Galil)

Now according to the Indian Strategic Frontier Research Organisation “Pakistani G3’s will out shoot a Insas 1B1/AKM/VZ58’s due to it’s inherent ballistic nature” thus making the G3 the lord of the battlefield along the Indo Pakistani border

India Pakistan Proxy War - Tactics And Equipment

However here was a time the G3 could not be effective which was when Pakistan engaged in COIN operations against Indian backed militants in its Northwest. In the Urban Close Quarter combat the mighty G-3 was at a disadvantage due to its small 20 rounds magazine, heavy recoil and large frame. The Pak Army also grew to disdain the MP-5(also produced under license by POF Wah) in such an environment due to its 9mm bullets that didn’t have much stopping power and pitiful range. It was in this time that the Type 56(Chinese version of the AKM) entered as a saviour. Already present for limited use in high altitude warfare such as Siachen where the G3 could not function properly due to adverse conditions, the Type 56(56–2 to be specific) also saw combat in the LoC as a potent weapon during cross border raids. This CQB availability and its rugged reliability made this Chinese version of the AKM a battle buddy of Pakistani counter terror troops who affectionately call it as “SMG” (probably to spite the MP5).

So in the end, yes the G3 is still a pretty effective rifle in certain conditions though its weight, recoil and less space for modifications are very challenging.

Great post! Spot on!

 

[Turan09]

Hmmm, do you know pricing compared to other options like HK416, Bren, and other rifles?

MPT-76 costs 1200$ for The Turkish Army...
For example HK-416 costs around 3000$...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...ifle-what-heckler-koch-m27-so-expensive-45087

 

[dBSPL]

MPT-76 costs 1200$ for The Turkish Army...
For example HK-416 costs around 3000$...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...ifle-what-heckler-koch-m27-so-expensive-45087

Also, one of the reasons why the MPT project took sooo long(nearly 10 years) was about the HK-416 setted as base standard. In addition, the project still continues with new stages, not finished. Currently, 3 different variants(MPT-76, MPT-55 and MPT-55K) are in mass production and developments continue. With the new Lots, the unit cost will decrease further. There are expert friends in Turkish defence forums who follow this MPT-related projects very closely, if some of them have PDF membership, they can give more comprehensive information about the subject.

 

[Eight Pass Charlie]

This guy tests a lot of rifles and he seems to really like it

As other users have said, existing equipment is good enough.

Does anyone know what the ratio between the G3 and Type-56 is in terms of number fielded?

Also would it be possible to reduce no. of G3 and phase out the remaining with the PK-18 to cover 7.62x51 requirements

and retain/purchase more of the Type-56 for 7.62×39mm requirements

or vice versa