Turkish Engine Programs

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

half of TEI is owned by GE, thats why they made new tr motor. why its hard to understand it? or u intentionally bring it here?

With your logic, they should not give the TS1400 and PD170 project to TEI. Both projects were funded by SSB.

 

[Balamir]

half of TEI is owned by GE, thats why they made new tr motor. why its hard to understand it? or u intentionally bring it here?

Same TEI produced the helicopter engine, so what's the problem? GE is not involved in these projects. We do not want TF / X to share ALTAY's fate. A newly formed company with no experience will produce one of the world's most advanced engines. How can we believe this? An experienced staff is essential. Therefore, it is important for me that TEI is involved in this project, even if indirectly. Otherwise, TF / X will remain as a finished project that cannot enter the inventory.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Same TEI produced the helicopter engine, so what's the problem? GE is not involved in these projects. We do not want TF / X to share ALTAY's fate. A newly formed company with no experience will produce one of the world's most advanced engines. How can we believe this? An experienced staff is essential. Therefore, it is important for me that TEI is involved in this project, even if indirectly. Otherwise, TF / X will remain as a finished project that cannot enter the inventory.

on the other hand, you need to put billions of dollars to risk, nobody knows if you produse it in 15 years or in 25 years. if there is a company who is willing to take that risk and at the end of the day, you will own the know how of that technology, what is your problem?? Turkey hard found who are willing to invest in local car industry, after Erdogan pushed it. Now, if BMC doesnt put the money, tell me a single company who is willing to take the risk

 

[Kamil_baku]

The TOGG car project is just a money laundering way. They will make state guarantees for TOGG and transfer tax payer money into their own pockets.

Be clever people and just notice the huge scam of AKP mafia

why dont you say the same thing about Tesla?? i mean ur masters

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

why dont you say the same thing about Tesla?? i mean ur masters

Tesla does not import battery from China, engine from Germany.

 

[Successwill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1309411197398155265

According to this tweet, TAI will commence testing TS1400 on Gökbey platform by the end of this year. Aksungur keeps breaking records with PD170. This one gonna be another success story hopefully

 

[aziqbal]

I think Turkey is in a very lucky position

they established around 3 decades ago a good and robust engine programme for the F16s

which is where TAI stems its technological knowledge

now TAI has expanded its highly skilled certified capability's to indigenous engines

I mean the kind of advances Turkey is making in engines for missile, UAV, helicopter and fighter jet engines is remarkable

very few would be capable of doing this

all those years spent working under licence and TOT with US companies defiantly resulted in a head start

 

[dr.knowhow]

Cross posting this in the engine thread as well as it is indeed the most important engine program Turkey has atm. I hope that the admins could set up some guidelines so that all the relevant and related topics could stay in one thread. Either all engine related topics to be posted here or we only post engine related topics that doesn't have it's dedicated thread like the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" or "Turkish UAV program thread" get posted here. I think it's okay when we have either of the choices but I personally prefer the latter solution. I mean it makes more sense to only talk about Altay's powerpack in "Altay thread" and domestic fighter jet engine in the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" rather than having it all discussed here in the same thread simultaneously. Same could be said about others threads like "Turkish sensors and detectors program" thread as well.

Anyways, to figure out myself and help out the non-Turkish members of the forum understand the military gas turbine manufacturing industry in Turkey, I've dug in a bit about it.

1.) TEI which is a joint venture of TUSAS (T stands for TUSAS) and GE has been responsible for most of the license built and domestically developed gas turbine engines that were in use by the Turkish Armed Forces. Having GE be one of the majority stakeholder made sense because Turkish Armed Forces was heavily reliant in GE built gas turbines in both air and sea.

2.) Then F-35 uses the P&W built F135 engine which probably was the problem for TEI to get involved in with its manufacturing in Turkey. I suspect that for this reason Kale was selected to partner up with P&W in order for Turkey to get involved in F135 program. There are questions though, regarding the possibility of TAI setting up another subsidiary as a JV with P&W instead of selecting a completely different company that is Kale.

3.) US-Turkey relationship sours and Turkey opts for alternatives for the American engines to be used in MMU. They eventually decide to build a domestic jet engine and 2 consortiums compete for the bid, which are TEI which obviously GE was a partner of and TAEC, a JV between Kale and RR. GE soon drops and TAEC was deemed to be the likely winner of the bid. But RR soon follows GE to drop its bid.

4.) There were a few news regarding the renegotiation with RR-British government and Turkey, but not much has came to fruition it seems.

5.) Finally TR Motor is announced as the contractor as the supplier of the domestic engine for the MMU and it is also revealed that Turkey is planning for a domestic engine for Hurjet as well. TR Motor is basically TEI but without GE but having BMC in the equation. Nothing much is known of this regard but I suspect that it has a lot to do with Turkey-Qatar relationship and the likely involvement of the Qataris in the domestic engine program.

Apart from politics itself, I still think there are some reasons which makes sense having BMC involved. The Qataris are largely connected with the BMC company and regarded close allies with Turkey for recent years. On top of that they have the oil-money which Turkey would definitely need when they are planning to develop a fighter jet engine that matches F100/F110.


There are other questions to be asked as well. Such as, if the negotiation with RR is still going on? Is Turkey still looking for a foreign partner for the domestic jet engine or are they going completely stand alone? We haven't heard much about it as well. Then again even when they get RR as a partner, would it be Kale working with them or TEI? Would the British be willing to let Qataris get involved in form of BMC?


Last but not least, as mentioned on other thread, 2026~2027 being the deadline shortly followed by 2029 deadline would mean that the firing up of the first prototype in this particular time period (within 6~7 years) would not only be the testing of the core but a complete engine itself. It would be impossible to only have the engine core then have only 2~3 years to get the complete engine ready for flight. We all know that a lot of Turkish members here think that Turkey can make this happen and there were equal amount of doubts coming from other foreign members of the forum. I usually think that I am not in a position to judge on these kinds of matters so I would not say if it's possible or not but it surely is very, very ambitious development schedule.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Cross posting this in the engine thread as well as it is indeed the most important engine program Turkey has atm. I hope that the admins could set up some guidelines so that all the relevant and related topics could stay in one thread. Either all engine related topics to be posted here or we only post engine related topics that doesn't have it's dedicated thread like the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" or "Turkish UAV program thread" get posted here. I think it's okay when we have either of the choices but I personally prefer the latter solution. I mean it makes more sense to only talk about Altay's powerpack in "Altay thread" and domestic fighter jet engine in the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" rather than having it all discussed here in the same thread simultaneously. Same could be said about others threads like "Turkish sensors and detectors program" thread as well.

Anyways, to figure out myself and help out the non-Turkish members of the forum understand the military gas turbine manufacturing industry in Turkey, I've dug in a bit about it.

1.) TEI which is a joint venture of TUSAS (T stands for TUSAS) and GE has been responsible for most of the license built and domestically developed gas turbine engines that were in use by the Turkish Armed Forces. Having GE be one of the majority stakeholder made sense because Turkish Armed Forces was heavily reliant in GE built gas turbines in both air and sea.

2.) Then F-35 uses the P&W built F135 engine which probably was the problem for TEI to get involved in with its manufacturing in Turkey. I suspect that for this reason Kale was selected to partner up with P&W in order for Turkey to get involved in F135 program. There are questions though, regarding the possibility of TAI setting up another subsidiary as a JV with P&W instead of selecting a completely different company that is Kale.

3.) US-Turkey relationship sours and Turkey opts for alternatives for the American engines to be used in MMU. They eventually decide to build a domestic jet engine and 2 consortiums compete for the bid, which are TEI which obviously GE was a partner of and TAEC, a JV between Kale and RR. GE soon drops and TAEC was deemed to be the likely winner of the bid. But RR soon follows GE to drop its bid.

4.) There were a few news regarding the renegotiation with RR-British government and Turkey, but not much has came to fruition it seems.

5.) Finally TR Motor is announced as the contractor as the supplier of the domestic engine for the MMU and it is also revealed that Turkey is planning for a domestic engine for Hurjet as well. TR Motor is basically TEI but without GE but having BMC in the equation. Nothing much is known of this regard but I suspect that it has a lot to do with Turkey-Qatar relationship and the likely involvement of the Qataris in the domestic engine program.

Apart from politics itself, I still think there are some reasons which makes sense having BMC involved. The Qataris are largely connected with the BMC company and regarded close allies with Turkey for recent years. On top of that they have the oil-money which Turkey would definitely need when they are planning to develop a fighter jet engine that matches F100/F110.


There are other questions to be asked as well. Such as, if the negotiation with RR is still going on? Is Turkey still looking for a foreign partner for the domestic jet engine or are they going completely stand alone? We haven't heard much about it as well. Then again even when they get RR as a partner, would it be Kale working with them or TEI? Would the British be willing to let Qataris get involved in form of BMC?


Last but not least, as mentioned on other thread, 2026~2027 being the deadline shortly followed by 2029 deadline would mean that the firing up of the first prototype in this particular time period (within 6~7 years) would not only be the testing of the core but a complete engine itself. It would be impossible to only have the engine core then have only 2~3 years to get the complete engine ready for flight. We all know that a lot of Turkish members here think that Turkey can make this happen and there were equal amount of doubts coming from other foreign members of the forum. I usually think that I am not in a position to judge on these kinds of matters so I would not say if it's possible or not but it surely is very, very ambitious development schedule.

Cross posting this in the engine thread as well as it is indeed the most important engine program Turkey has atm. I hope that the admins could set up some guidelines so that all the relevant and related topics could stay in one thread. Either all engine related topics to be posted here or we only post engine related topics that doesn't have it's dedicated thread like the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" or "Turkish UAV program thread" get posted here. I think it's okay when we have either of the choices but I personally prefer the latter solution. I mean it makes more sense to only talk about Altay's powerpack in "Altay thread" and domestic fighter jet engine in the "TF-X/Hurjet thread" rather than having it all discussed here in the same thread simultaneously. Same could be said about others threads like "Turkish sensors and detectors program" thread as well.

Anyways, to figure out myself and help out the non-Turkish members of the forum understand the military gas turbine manufacturing industry in Turkey, I've dug in a bit about it.

1.) TEI which is a joint venture of TUSAS (T stands for TUSAS) and GE has been responsible for most of the license built and domestically developed gas turbine engines that were in use by the Turkish Armed Forces. Having GE be one of the majority stakeholder made sense because Turkish Armed Forces was heavily reliant in GE built gas turbines in both air and sea.

2.) Then F-35 uses the P&W built F135 engine which probably was the problem for TEI to get involved in with its manufacturing in Turkey. I suspect that for this reason Kale was selected to partner up with P&W in order for Turkey to get involved in F135 program. There are questions though, regarding the possibility of TAI setting up another subsidiary as a JV with P&W instead of selecting a completely different company that is Kale.

3.) US-Turkey relationship sours and Turkey opts for alternatives for the American engines to be used in MMU. They eventually decide to build a domestic jet engine and 2 consortiums compete for the bid, which are TEI which obviously GE was a partner of and TAEC, a JV between Kale and RR. GE soon drops and TAEC was deemed to be the likely winner of the bid. But RR soon follows GE to drop its bid.

4.) There were a few news regarding the renegotiation with RR-British government and Turkey, but not much has came to fruition it seems.

5.) Finally TR Motor is announced as the contractor as the supplier of the domestic engine for the MMU and it is also revealed that Turkey is planning for a domestic engine for Hurjet as well. TR Motor is basically TEI but without GE but having BMC in the equation. Nothing much is known of this regard but I suspect that it has a lot to do with Turkey-Qatar relationship and the likely involvement of the Qataris in the domestic engine program.

Apart from politics itself, I still think there are some reasons which makes sense having BMC involved. The Qataris are largely connected with the BMC company and regarded close allies with Turkey for recent years. On top of that they have the oil-money which Turkey would definitely need when they are planning to develop a fighter jet engine that matches F100/F110.


There are other questions to be asked as well. Such as, if the negotiation with RR is still going on? Is Turkey still looking for a foreign partner for the domestic jet engine or are they going completely stand alone? We haven't heard much about it as well. Then again even when they get RR as a partner, would it be Kale working with them or TEI? Would the British be willing to let Qataris get involved in form of BMC?


Last but not least, as mentioned on other thread, 2026~2027 being the deadline shortly followed by 2029 deadline would mean that the firing up of the first prototype in this particular time period (within 6~7 years) would not only be the testing of the core but a complete engine itself. It would be impossible to only have the engine core then have only 2~3 years to get the complete engine ready for flight. We all know that a lot of Turkish members here think that Turkey can make this happen and there were equal amount of doubts coming from other foreign members of the forum. I usually think that I am not in a position to judge on these kinds of matters so I would not say if it's possible or not but it surely is very, very ambitious development schedule.

RR - Kale - TAI (TEI) cooperation is still active, they will enter the new phase. for some reason probably expect India to Turkey's programs was to draw the roadmap from 2 to create different requirements. I agree with the discussion of the product to which the engines will be integrated. Why should turbine engines and internal combustion be on the same issue?

 

[YavuzSK]

 

[Dai Toruko]

 

[mjting01]

Hello. Hope everyone has been doing well and safe. Any news regarding the TS1400? Thanks!

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Hello. Hope everyone has been doing well and safe. Any news regarding the TS1400? Thanks!

TAI going to use it on Gokbey helicopter next mounth, so it will be pass serial production after this phase.

 

[mjting01]

TAI going to use it on Gokbey helicopter next mounth, so it will be pass serial production after this phase.

How early can this be actually used on production ATAKs?

 

[[TR]AHMET]

How early can this be actually used on production ATAKs?

TS 1400 gonna be used on Gokbey and Atak, it would be tested on Gokbey platform first then Atak.

I think next year both helicopter would be powered by TS1400 for mass production.

Our defence industry locked this project.