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Turkish Economy - News & Updates

What is the driving force behind Turkish Economic problem?

  • The on going Trump attack on Turkish Economy

    Votes: 29 19.9%
  • Jewish Agenda to weaken adjacent countries to Israel

    Votes: 36 24.7%
  • Internal Turkish economic problems

    Votes: 50 34.2%
  • Falling Exports for Turkey

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • Loss of Tourism income for Turkey

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • External Loans or Debt impacting Economy

    Votes: 25 17.1%

  • Total voters
    146
Those are indeed some nice numbers but now go and check what the percentage on Turkey’s private debt is and you will lose your breath very fast. :D

Then you will get an answer how and with what kind of money Turkey’s current account deficit is covered.

After that if you are interested I will explain how and why the economic bubble will burst.
Private debt is irrelevant. Private citizens and private companies are and should be allowed to get into as much debt as they wish.

It is their money, it is their obligation, their responsibility.

No one is pointing a gun to their heads.

And how would you even think of lowering debt ownership? Hike interest rates? Then how will the new investments be realised?
 
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Private debt is irrelevant. Private citizens and private companies are and should be allowed to get into as much debt as they wish.

It is their money, it is their obligation, their responsibility.

No one is pointing a gun to their heads.

And how would you even think of lowering debt ownership? Hike interest rates? Then how will the new investments be realised?

Okay... let’s start with some simple explanations about how the System works.

Private debt is the money Turkish citizens owe to the Turkish banks and believe me it’s not an irrelevant matter even if nobody is made to take a loan with a gun on his head.

The credits the banks give are their assets because they bring them profits in the form of interest payments people pay back. Banks are interested to give more loans because that brings them more profits.

On the other hand all the money people and companies deposit in the banks are liabilities for the banks because banks don’t only keep the deposited money safe but also have to pay a small interest to their owners.

The Banks work like that: they accumulate deposits and then use them to give other people loans. With the interests and the loans people pay back to the Bank it pays a smaller interest to the deposit owner for using his money. The difference is a net profit for the bank.

Considering that all the deposits in the Turkish banks cover only around a half of all the private loans they give it means that they should be looking for more financial resources from somewhere else. From where you might ask?
From the international financial markets. Turkish banks take loans from bigger international banks and financial institutions to fuel the credit market in Turkey that brings them tens of billions every year (net profit of the Turkish banking sector last year was 13$ billion). Indirectly from this huge amount of money billions fly away from Turkey every single year.

You talk about investments and I have nothing against using loans to invest in a business that will potentially bring me and the Turkish economy money and profits. How much of all this debt is used for investments though?

Majority of it is used for everyday spendings like paying bills, buying new jeans and Nike shoes in the mall, to get the new Iphone or in more rare cases to buy a new car to show off in front of your neighbors. I am sure that you know many people who are just addicted to their credit cards or owe money to a credit institution.

For now the system is working fine- people still manage to pay back their loans, they still consume and buy and spend money (that are not theirs in many cases) on things, the Government keeps building many things with a questionable economic value (airports and stadiums in places where they will be nothing else but white elephants), the printing machines keep pushing liras into the economy, also exports are rising and the economic climate in the world is pretty good too.

What will happen if a mini 2008-2009 World crysis repeats again and all the international hot money stop flowing into Turkey though?
What if people can’t pay back their debts or if businesses can’t do it too and go bankrupt because of their heavy debts? What if the construction bubble bursts like in America a decade ago?

Many economists say that Turkey’s current economy is a huge bubble which not sustainable for the future and they don’t say it because they are jealous or something but because it is true.
 
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Private debt is irrelevant. Private citizens and private companies are and should be allowed to get into as much debt as they wish.
Yeah right, its not like only a decade ago where massive private debts in US caused a global recession.
How fast people forget...
 
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Private debt is irrelevant. Private citizens and private companies are and should be allowed to get into as much debt as they wish.

It is their money, it is their obligation, their responsibility.

No one is pointing a gun to their heads.

And how would you even think of lowering debt ownership? Hike interest rates? Then how will the new investments be realised?

Private debt or not; it has treasury guarentee. They are syndicated loans in foreing currencies and given as loans by our banks.

No matter if private(!) loans are paid or not. Those will be paid. By the owner of debt or the country itself. The same guarentee applies to loans given to companies. (210 billions of USD foreing debt of real sector is under treasury guarentee)

So; it does not work as you know it. If they do not pay it; our country will pay it. And it will be taken from you by increased taxs.
 
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Considering that all the deposits in the Turkish banks cover only around a half of all the private loans they give
Source?

Turkish banks take loans from bigger international banks and financial institutions to fuel the credit market in Turkey that brings them tens of billions every year (net profit of the Turkish banking sector last year was 13$ billion). Indirectly from this huge amount of money billions fly away from Turkey every single year.
Well I am also againt debt via foreign currencies of course, as as you just said it also impacts the country's economy.

But I thought we were mostly talking about citizens and companies (as small companies now barred from getting into debt from foreign banks and small banks makes up the majority of corporate-financial activity) getting loans around and they get loans in TL from Turkish banks. That is what I meant by "private citizens and private companies".

Majority of it is used for everyday spendings like paying bills, buying new jeans and Nike shoes in the mall, to get the new Iphone or in more rare cases to buy a new car to show off in front of your neighbors. I am sure that you know many people who are just addicted to their credit cards or owe money to a credit institution.
Well if it were up to me I'd actually separate investment banking and consumption banking from each other. This is an idea where European right-wingers tend to strongly support like Le-Pen etc.

Then I'd adopt something like "consumption credit tax" which would actually increase the interest rates on consumption loans. That alone would lower the inflation and as such also lower the main interest rates from the central bank. But because there would be no taxation on investment credits the market interest rates for investment credits would go down as well.

So in the end you would come out as more expensive consumption loans while investment loans would be far cheaper now. That would reduce household indebtedness and increase investments in the country.

Many economists say that Turkey’s current economy is a huge bubble which not sustainable for the future and they don’t say it because they are jealous or something but because it is true.
Maybe Erdogan will stop populist economy policy and focus on production capabilities of the country once he wins the elections in 2019. Time to time they applied unpopular policies for the sake of the country's economy, like increasing pension age.

Who knows. I still think banning companies from taking loans from foreign banks was an awesome idea!

Private debt or not; it has treasury guarentee. They are syndicated loans in foreing currencies and given as loans by our banks
As I mentioned above I was implying citizens and companies getting indebted in TL by national banks.

And oh.. @mete @Deliorman @xenon54

What are YOUR suggestions? How do YOU plan to reduce household indebtedness?

I have my suggestions up there, what are YOURS?
 
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As I mentioned above I was implying citizens and companies getting indebted in TL by national banks.

And oh.. @mete @Deliorman @xenon54

What are YOUR suggestions? How do YOU plan to reduce household indebtedness?

I have my suggestions up there, what are YOURS?

This is the thing that I am trying to tell. That debt is not in TL in general. (except the loans sourced from central bank; which pumps up the emission of tl) Banks get syndicated loans and they pay that in forreign currency. (Generally USD) Big companies generally take loans from foreign sources by themselves without getting involved with local banks buut even this is under guarentee of treasury. (That is getting blocked by the goverment right now)

Suggestions to reduce household indebtness? If we were in 2004-2008 era I would suggest a lot of things but right now there is no solution. Only solution is to bringing back the real sector. It is %16 of total economy right now. We need more jobs, less dependency in consumer products, food, raw resources... We need to reconfigure the whole economy. You can not evade damage at this point, this is the end game. We are screwed! We shall talk about how we can reestablish a healthy economy at the next 50 years.

Talking about in English is a pain in the *** for me. I can tell you more in Turkish if you want. But that is certain; we are not producing, we have very very high inflation considering the rest of the world, our money is losing value rapidly, our production is dependent on foreign source, so devaluation of TL is effecting costs.

Plus; world in an economic warfare atmosphere, globalisation is gone, production rates dropping because demand is shrinking, there is supply surplus in many industrial sectors. Even producing and earning money from that is not effective as it was 8 years ago.

End dependencies as much as possible, get into good relationship with neighbours, make good trading agreements and the most important one find a way to make the country easy to live and peaceful place by stopping political polarisation. So our productive brains will not escape the country. Oh; BTW you can not hold your own capital in your country without havig a good juristiction system. This is why all of our rish people escaped Turkey at the last 10 years. Even I have money outside of the country.

As you can see; everything is connected. You can not do anything about household debt within a corrupt economic and political system. Our country has become so corrupt it is impossible to change one parameter without touching others. You have to change all the system.
 
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Yes, eurozone will be fuvked soon for printing money like there is no tomorrow :-)

(for the record EURUSD = 1.2317 at the moment - 29/03/2018)

DZHlPuoX4AMpOHD.jpg

We (Germans) are fine.

nobody cares about dollar in Turkey ........ We took Afrin.......keep crying the US,Germany

It seems you missed some basics in economics. Your trade deficit getting wider and wider.
 
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We (Germans) are fine.



It seems you missed some basics in economics. Your trade deficit getting wider and wider.

Yes; there are production behind that emission of euro. Plus; it is a international trade value. Many countries have euro as reserve money in these days. Printing euro gets seigniorage advantage. Germany is one of the most productive country in the world. You have successfuly solved many problems in your society and advanced in industrialisation like no other country. Good work.

nobody cares about dollar in Turkey ........ We took Afrin.......keep crying the US,Germany

Economy does not work like that. Tell me how taking Afrin gets us an economical boost? Tell me please... How it is goint to solve our debt problem, how it is going to solve our production problem, how it is going to solve our inequality of income, how is it going to solve our.... eeeehhh too many problems.

Afrin is a very important security problem and we did the right thing. But! It does not solve all our problems. Wake up! World is not based on one problem. And we have a lot of them.

Nobody cares USD?(US Dollar) Even just our cooperations have 210+ billion USD debt.

We buy everything; even food from other countries in USD!

When we produce something most of the raw resources and intermediate goods are bought in USD just to produce something.

He buy nearly all our energy in USD! When USD rises prices of heating your house increases. At the same time production costs increase and our industry can not sell any more products because of prices.

Our treasury have debt in USD!

People do not care USD? Even you fcing food is based on USD!
 
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Yeah right, its not like only a decade ago where massive private debts in US caused a global recession.
How fast people forget...

This was more so due to Mortgage crises and the shady business carried out by the major mortgage banks.

You should watch "The big Short"

Good movie... but Margin Call is more of a serious movie.
 
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Nobody cares USD?(US Dollar) Even just our cooperations have 210+ billion USD debt.

about the private debt over $100 billion of 210+ billion USD debt is belong to Turkish Banks ( Banks bought $78 billion of these loans and $22 billion of them through bonds ) It is obvious why the banks have borrowed from abroad, this credit is being used in TL locally and domestically depositing money through deposits is more expensive than buying foreign currency loans from abroad ( Bankalar yurtdışından uzun vadeli düşük faizli borc alıp iceride TL olarak kredi kullandırıyor ... bir nevi paradan para kazanıyorlar )


EXTERNAL DEBT BY COUNTRIES

-- France $5,3 trillion ( 213% of GDP )
-- Germany $5,1 trillion ( 148% of GDP )
-- Netherlands $4,3 trillion ( 533% of GDP )
-- Italy $2,3 trillion ( 126% of GDP )
-- Spain $2,1 trillion ( 167% of GDP )
-- Switzerland $ 1,7 trillion ( 265% of GDP )
-- Belgium $1,2 trillion ( 265% of GDP )
-- Sweden $938 billion ( 177% of GDP )
-- Austria $638 billion ( 167% of GDP )
-- Norway $623 billion (169% of GDP )
-- Denmark $491 billion (163% of GDP )
-- Finland $483 billion (196% of GDP )
-- Greece $471 billion ( 245% of GDP )
-- Portugal $447 billion (216% of GDP )
-- TURKEY $432 billion (52% of GDP ) ...........the best in Europe
 
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Good movie... but Margin Call is more of a serious movie.

Yes, but it only shows you what the company went trough at the eleventh hour. While with Big Short it shows you alot more perspective. Personally I like Margin Call more, but The Big Short tells you more of the crisis.
 
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about the private debt over $100 billion of 210+ billion USD debt is belong to Turkish Banks ( Banks bought $78 billion of these loans and $22 billion of them through bonds ) It is obvious why the banks have borrowed from abroad, this credit is being used in TL locally and domestically depositing money through deposits is more expensive than buying foreign currency loans from abroad ( Bankalar yurtdışından uzun vadeli düşük faizli borc alıp iceride TL olarak kredi kullandırıyor ... bir nevi paradan para kazanıyorlar )


EXTERNAL DEBT BY COUNTRIES

-- France $5,3 trillion ( 213% of GDP )
-- Germany $5,1 trillion ( 148% of GDP )
-- Netherlands $4,3 trillion ( 533% of GDP )
-- Italy $2,3 trillion ( 126% of GDP )
-- Spain $2,1 trillion ( 167% of GDP )
-- Switzerland $ 1,7 trillion ( 265% of GDP )
-- Belgium $1,2 trillion ( 265% of GDP )
-- Sweden $938 billion ( 177% of GDP )
-- Austria $638 billion ( 167% of GDP )
-- Norway $623 billion (169% of GDP )
-- Denmark $491 billion (163% of GDP )
-- Finland $483 billion (196% of GDP )
-- Greece $471 billion ( 245% of GDP )
-- Portugal $447 billion (216% of GDP )
-- TURKEY $432 billion (52% of GDP ) ...........the best in Europe

If you read carefully what @mete said, you will realize that some parts mean nothing unless you ''look and see'' the whole context.

Two people ,one of whom has good salary,background, CV unlike the other person, are not treated equally in respect interests rate, volume of credit, time etc by a Bank no matter how much they have debts taken before.
 
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