Turkish constitutional referendum 2017 - News, Update & Discussion

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Ask iranians they will tell you that they are under a democracy bc they can vote...

Exactly my point.

And now Turkey's becoming the same.

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/853650483986280448

As expected, in Turkey mr ErdoGUN always hits the spot.

 

[azzo]

So you want voting, but you don't want all the complicated Western imperialist crpyto-Jewish masonic stuff like checks and balances, democratic accountability, etc.

Stop assuming what I want, even voting should not be allowed for everybody but a select few, other things that I'm against that is integral to western democracy, is some of the loosely defined values like "freedom of speech". I have no problem with accountability.

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On topic

Congratulations Turkey and welcome back to the Ummah.

 

[OldTwilight]

right now
%95.7
yes: 51.9
no:48.1

Seed of future problem , the result is too close

 

[xenon54 out]

Interesting to see which polling institutions were closest to the result.

 

[azzo]

Turkey belongs to Turks...

Real patriotic Turks are Ottomans.

 

[xenon54 out]

Real patriotic Turks are Ottomans.

Being Ottoman isnt exclusively being Turk, a patriotic Turk puts his countrys interest before anyone else.

BTW: Ottomans dont exist anymore, might be an important detail to mention.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Stop assuming what I want, even voting should not be allowed for everybody but a select few, other things that I'm against that is integral to western democracy, is some of the loosely defined values like "freedom of speech". I have no problem with accountability.

The problem with your proposed system is that it wouldn't work. It'll fail at some point.

Turkey was never a Western/liberal democracy anyway. It never had real checks and balances, separation of powers, democratic accountability, etc. That's one reason why people like Erdogan were able to seize power in the first place. His party was over-represented in parliament for so many years due to the stupid 10% electoral threshold that was put in place by the coup plotters in 1980 as a means to prevent Kurdish and ultra-leftist political parties from winning seats in parliament.

So just because some people are complaining about the referendum results doesn't mean they don't like democracy when it doesn't yield the results they want. Turkey was never a real democracy to begin with.

 

[azzo]

Being Ottoman isnt exclusively being Turk, a patriotic Turk puts his countrys interest before anyone else.

BTW: Ottomans dont exist anymore, might be an important detail to mention.

As long as that country is the Ottoman empire.

 

[xenon54 out]

As long as that country is the Ottoman empire.

Well, dreaming isnt forbidden so.

 

[azzo]

The problem with your proposed system is that it wouldn't work. It'll fail at some point.

Turkey was never a Western/liberal democracy anyway. It never had real checks and balances, separation of powers, democratic accountability, etc. That's one reason why people like Erdogan were able to seize power in the first place. His party was over-represented in parliament for so many years due to the stupid 10% electoral threshold that was put in place by the coup plotters in 1980 as a means to prevent Kurdish and ultra-leftist political parties from winning seats in parliament.

So just because some people are complaining about the referendum results doesn't mean they don't like democracy when it doesn't yield the results they want. Turkey was never a real democracy to begin with.

Turkey was doomed to fail from the start due to the conditions of its conception, coming after a defeat and losing most of its lands and influence and being lead by a western puppet are but reasons why this country was a failure and only now after the AKP is starting to recover.

 

[tesla]

Seed of future problem , the result is too close

yes results is too close but turkey roads to full independet it is not problem
we have the worst experiences like terror, coup, economic threats of west etc but anatolian people destructed nato coup and its occupy act in 15 july pkk,fetö etc now its only problem are liberals they are fly bite for anatolian people

 

[SouI]

What is wrong with being an Islamist?

Restriction of individual freedoms over a corrupt outdated ideology.

Europe with all its glory is going back to its Christians roots, sprouting right wing governments and rhetoric all over Europe,

Look I wouldn't have a problem with THAT kind of Islam, and maybe then even I would claim to be muslim happily.

That is the case here. European Christians don't go around saying "you are not allowed to do this that and that or you will be killed" when honoring Christianity.

When they honor Christianity, they don't practise Christianity and in fact they use Christianity as a symbol for freedoms.

They hijacked Christianity so much that it became like the symbol of modernity rather than the other way around.

I would be all for such an Islam, only in the name.

That is also what nationalism ideologies alike are all about, nothing but delusions. In Turkey today no one would really believe the Turkish nation is truly Turkic and truly culturally and genetically homogeneous.

It is just that we all speak the same language and live in the same country, and even despite knowing these all I still proudly say I am a Turk, because it is a fun aspect and I feel like this is my home and these people are my people and most importantly the phenomenon I just underlined has no negativity if not gone to the extremes.

I would be up for such an Islam like the Christianity in Europe today. And Christianity even in its current fake stage is dying rapidly in Europe, same will happen in Turkey to Islam if natural selection is not prevented from functioning here properly.

But with an Islamist government things have no prospect to advance like in the developed world including east Asia.

Christians in Europe east Asia (south Korea, Japan, Singapore etc) and Australia don't truly believe in bible.

I would be fine with such an Islamic social design.

 

[Luffy 500]

YOu shoud have said Turks... bc Ottomans were those under Ottoman Empire... therefore I as a Tunisian is by definition a rightfull owner of Today Turkey.

There were NO concepts of nation states or tunisia during ottoman times or for that matter anytime in Islamic or pre-17 century European history. Nationalism is a modern form of tribalism. Arabs fought alongside turks throughout 18th and 19th century. Its blatant western influenced ehtno-Nationalism and turkification that formented discontent among Arabs and other ethnicities in the then ottoman empire.

You may love your town,city,province,country you were born or raised in. Its natural to feel a belonging to it. But problem arise when that abstract notion is turned into nationalistic zeal whereby any and all sorts of injustice of your group can be "justified". Its the same as pre-islamic tribalism that Islam condemns - that zeal whereby your conscious and morals are clouded. nationalism helps forment supeirority complex, ego & false pride something that does NOT behoove the son of Adam since this superiority complex, ego and flase pride is a feature of saytan Iblis. Example - If tunisian goverment or majority in society commits or supports a wrong, you as a Muslim should NOT follow their lead but oppose them and stand up for justice. That's what it means to be a Muslim (assuming you are a muslim) opposing nationalism.

Note- sorry for the long post irrelevant to this thread. I hope you do NOT take it in a negative light or mistake it as a rude condescending post. I only had good intentions behind my post.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Turkey was doomed to fail from the start due to the conditions of its conception, coming after a defeat and losing most of its lands and influence and being lead by a western puppet are but reasons why this country was a failure and only now after the AKP is starting to recover.

It remains to be seen how successful Turkey will be in the coming 20 years.

Bear in mind that the most important thing in a country is the economy, and the economy is highly dependent on the country's political system. The freer your political system is (i.e. the more participatory it is), the more open the economy will be in the long term. And the more open the economy is, the better off the country will be in the long term.

A good example of how things can go awfully wrong is Venezuela. Venezuela underwent internal political changes in the early 2000s that made the country less democratic (made the political system less free). This, in turn, led to many changes in the Venezuelan economy. And right now, Venezuela can't even afford toilet paper.

The best path for Turkey is liberal democracy. This is the only system that can sustain free and open trade with the rest of the world and make the country stronger in the long term.

The alternative is something like Iran.