Turkey’s changes echo Islamic resurgence

[Zulkarneyn]

So much obsession with my nation

Are people truly concerned for my people since you guys are so fantastically interested in our wellbeing. Or because we agressively pursue our interest

 

[leftfordead]

Enjoying the Comments .. anyone else ??

 

[MarkusS]

So much obsession with my nation

Are people truly concerned for my people since you guys are so fantastically interested in our wellbeing. Or because we agressively pursue our interest

You should try to be less agressive...You damage your interests at evry front. You basicly have only Azerbaijan left as allie. Your mad president destroys even secured deals and makes turkey obsolete as partner

 

[Jamwal's]

The perfect proof that you guys will never get ahead of us.



So what? We got ahead in all aspects and never looked back while you got stuck in ignorance ever since and into the future. And the Arabs got their ideas from Greeks, Indians and Chinese. Where are you now in terms of science and development? LOL

BTW, you are not even an Arab. In the eyes of an Arab, you are just a second class Muslim. LOL

Most important Indian contribution was in mathematics.They translated Indian knowledge and compiled it in Arabic.

Several Arabs used to study in India at important Hindu center of knowlede such as Banaras.

Abu Maashir Al Balkhi, a scholar from islamic golden age studied in Banaras (India) for 10 years.


He is considered one of the greatest scholar in Abbasid Court.

 

[TaiShang]

What a benevolent god that keeps you ignorant, poor and backward. Way to go, LOL.

I believe that when people are unable to achieve scientific control over the laws of physics, they turn to the idea of God and destiny. In my opinion, we could develop a more progressive conceptualization of God; something akin to Mark's conceptualization of historical forces. God does not have to be so separated from our lives; perhaps It is what we call causality. This way, wo won't need clergy to lead us to the ultimate power of history, but science.

Backward nations stuck in religion (not necessarily a particular religion) often because they are too incompetent to have control over their social and physical environment. Hence, they turn to God. In most instances, they turn to the clergy (or clergy-like politicians) to help them ensure God's favor and help.

The more Turkey turns to clergy (in the form of neo-televangelism) and clergy-like statesman, the more it will fall behind.

 

[T-Rex]

You should try to be less agressive..

At least Turkey is not invading other states in the name of finding WMD or bombing hospitals just to make it impossible to build a gas pipeline through Syria.

.You damage your interests at evry front. You basicly have only Azerbaijan left as allie. Your mad president destroys even secured deals and makes turkey obsolete as partner

Yes, yes, Turkey has lost a great ally in you, a one eyed fortune teller. Now, please get under Putin's pants and stop your mumbo jumbo, that's what you're really interested in, right?

 

[Zarvan]

Turkey’s changes echo Islamic resurgence
By Zan Tao
Source: Global Times
Published: 2016-5-5 23:38:01

Illustration: Liu Rui/GT

Addressing an Islamic academics' meeting in Istanbul on April 25, Turkish Parliament Speaker Ismail Kahraman said Turkey, as a Muslim country, needs "a religious constitution," in which "a description of secularism" should be wiped out. Kahraman's remark ignited a public outcry, and the opposition has demanded his resignation. In international discourse, concerns about whether Turkey is being Islamized are growing.

For decades, there have been numerous discussions about whether secularism is retreating in Turkey. From the Democrat Party leader Adnan Menderes in 1950s to the die-hard Islamic fundamentalist Necmettin Erbakan in 1990s, Turkish politicians have never stopped trying to restore Islam's dominance in politics. Erbakan's ascent to the prime minister's office in 1996 greatly heightened public concern about a new wave of Islamic fundamentalism, so he was prompted to step down a year later with his Welfare Party dissolved by the worried Turkish military.

This didn't mark the end of the conflict between religion and secularism. The incumbent Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who was a member of the Welfare Party, built the AK Party with some pragmatic young Turks and obtained the top office in 2002.

The controversies and anxieties caused by Kahraman's remark are indicative of people's uncertainties about whether the ruling AK Party is willing to sustain secular. The past decade has seen Turkey's social climate growing more conservative under the rule of the AK Party. In a bid to lift the constitutional, but rarely enforced, ban on women wearing head scarves in public, the AK Party pledged to challenge the constitution but failed in 2008. But Islamic values have been given a new emphasis by Turkish leaders with intensive publicity around Islamic costumes, anniversaries and rituals. Turkey's secular forces are feeling very stressed by the change. After all, Turkey has been the most secular state in the Muslim world since it was founded by the then Mustafa Kemal Pasha, better known as Ataturk, in 1923. Turkey's secular forces regard the country's tone-changing as a step backward.

Secularism was embedded in Turkey's constitution in 1937 by the country's founding father. Religion was officially forbidden in politics, economy and education. The government had to impose a lot of restrictions on religious groups and activities, because Turkey was a traditional Muslim empire before its modernization and secularization. Islam was given a heavy blow by the government.

After a democratic Turkey was solidified in late 1940s, Islam revived. But it has never managed to get the better of secularism. The most prominent example is the fall of the Welfare Party. As a descendant of the Welfare Party, the AK Party is basically inclined to pragmatism. The ruling party has significantly improved the Turkish economy and wellbeing without challenging the red line of secularism.

Kahraman's remark caused backlash in Turkey. High-ranking AK Party members, including Erdogan himself, came out to declare their insistence on secularism, and Kahraman also clarified that this is only his personal view.

The AK Party's response to this incident and Kahraman's clarification have actually reinstated Erdogan's elaboration of secularism during his visit to Egypt in 2011. Incorporated within the AK Party's 2023 Political Vision, Erdogan's elaboration claims to aim to redefine secularism instead of discarding it. In his new theory, the focal point of secularism should be set to ensure freedom of religion to make sure all religions are fairly treated in Turkey. This deviates from the traditional approach, which highlights religious control.

Kahraman's call for abandoning secularism won't work because it is unconstitutional. But the AK Party's effort to redefine secularism stands a chance. Kamel's version of secularism is being altered by the AK Party, and the new version might be accepted as an amendment to the constitution.

Turkey's shift heralds the downfall of Western ideologies that used to be popular in the Muslim world. Islamic fundamentalism and even radical ideas are gaining the upper hand. Turkey's adjustment of its hard core secularism is a typical manifestation of the trend. The rejuvenation of Islam is becoming a fact in the Middle East, and any power that ignores it will lose its leverage.

The author is an associate professor at Peking University and an academic committee member of Pangoal Institution.

Nobody can Islam from rising. Opposition in Turkey may cry and may be able to take this man resignation for now but what he is suggesting would eventually happen and no power on earth can stop it from happening.

 

[T-Rex]

Nobody can Islam from rising. Opposition in Turkey may cry and may be able to take this man resignation for now but what he is suggesting would eventually happen and no power on earth can stop it from happening.

This the problem with those who want Islam to rise. They don't know how to work silently. They can't stay away from blabbering it out. That Turkish Speaker of the parliament is a very good example of this, he put Erdogan in a difficult situation.

 

[Lure]

Hey @TaiShang, nice seeing you again.

This didn't mark the end of the conflict between religion and secularism. The incumbent Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who was a member of the Welfare Party, built the AK Party with some pragmatic young Turks and obtained the top office in 2002.

Those pragmatic young Turks were mainly liberal university students who hated Kemalism and viewed it as an opressive regime. According to them, Kemalists were the powerful elites and the people oppose it like Islamists or Kurds were actually struggling for their basic civil rights. That's why they always saw Islamist movements as a civil rights movements under the context of freedom of religion. Islamists tought they were not "free enough" under Kemalism and liberals agreed.

Secularism was embedded in Turkey's constitution in 1937 by the country's founding father. Religion was officially forbidden in politics, economy and education. The government had to impose a lot of restrictions on religious groups and activities, because Turkey was a traditional Muslim empire before its modernization and secularization. Islam was given a heavy blow by the government.

That can be discussed as some other topic. I think Ottoman Empire was never an orthodox Islamic empire like Abbasids or Ummayyad or Mamluks. There were so many difference about society, ethic codes and how state functioned.

Of course the main difference was about the application of Sharia law. Ottomans somehow managed to have a dual legal system that stroke a balance between old Turkic unwritten laws (töre, yasa which was earthly) and the sharia law. There is a good read about the issue. I highly recommend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/24365067

Kahraman's call for abandoning secularism won't work because it is unconstitutional. But the AK Party's effort to redefine secularism stands a chance. Kamel's version of secularism is being altered by the AK Party, and the new version might be accepted as an amendment to the constitution.

That's the most dangerous part. Instead of abolishing secularism as a whole, which could even end up with a civil war in Turkey, AKP is changing the definition of secularism. In traditional sense of secularism, a state rejects associating itself with any form of religion or religious group. For example if traditional secularism definition was really upheld, Turkey had no place in Islamic multi-national organisations. I mean it's simple. Secularism doesn't mean freedom of religion. It can't be reduced to that. It means there is no religion in state affairs. A politician in a secular country can't talk about religion or religiousness of it's citizens, a secular state doesn't talk about it's "muslim brothers" or a secular state can't be ruled by a political Islamist party or blasphemy can't be illegal.

Blasphemy is a good example how AKP operates. According to Turkish law blasphemy is not forbidden. However hate speech is forbidden. AKP prosecuters interpret blasphemy as a hate speech and prosecute you. This is how they work. They use western concepts and interpret them as they please. Their interpretation of western concepts ends up Turkey similar to Saudi Arabia.

Turkey's shift heralds the downfall of Western ideologies that used to be popular in the Muslim world. Islamic fundamentalism and even radical ideas are gaining the upper hand. Turkey's adjustment of its hard core secularism is a typical manifestation of the trend. The rejuvenation of Islam is becoming a fact in the Middle East, and any power that ignores it will lose its leverage.

I dont think Turkey is shifting from Western ideologies. I think current Western ideologies and policies create and nurture far right ideologies such as racism and religious fundementalism. It's no coincidence that far right is on the rise in Europe, Trump is republican nominee in US and fundementalism is rising in Middle East. Suddenly every group is a victim. Every group is oppressed and they want their rights.

This may be a hint : http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.697564

"Many survey respondents blamed corruption and repressive governments for the rise of jihadist groups."

Every group out there making pseudo civil rights movements, using liberal arguments, saying they were oppressed so bad and they recruit people for their cause or they enlarge their mass or their voter base for whatever the hell is the reason.

I mean we've seen very similar movements in Taiwan and HK. Think of anti-Beijing protests in HK. Those were very well educated mostly middle class and upper middle class, urban born young men. When you call those kids for action for some cause they will protest, make sit ins and civil disobedience.

Now think of such a movement in Syrian town Al-Raqqa or Iraqi town Ramadi. Those people are exremely ignorant(most of them did not even attend to primary school), they are very poor and they have nothing to lose. Most of them are angry as hell because their country was invaded. Most of them are born in rural places or ghettos in cities. When you call those kids for action for some cause they will take an AK-47 and start shooting.

Liberalism and it's "call for actions" are enough for this World!

Backward nations stuck in religion (not necessarily a particular religion) often because they are too incompetent to have control over their social life. Hence, they turn to God. In most instances, they turn to the clergy (or clergy-like politicians) to help them ensure God's favor.

Of course poor populace is much more entangled with religion. However I might remind you that US is a very advanced nation and you can see a good portion of society is very religious with a very low tolerance. As I've tried to explain above, US values are nurturing those lunatics anywhere on Earth.

I used to have this Marxist optimism about religion just like you. I mean if a society is making money from production they will be secular and down to earth. Now I'm afraid religious groups updated themselves and they can embed themselves into advanced economies.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

As long as Turks are happy ( All Turks irrespective of their beliefs ) , outsiders are no one to question about the way Turkey manages itself , untill and unless it affects the Global equations.