Turkey Vs. India.

[sab]

A Z

You really have a tank to think when the others got brains for the purpose. Do you know Albania, Estonia too are NATO members?hey ??? So they are training wise better than all non-NATO countries????

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Luxembourg, Estonia, Latvia etc are NATO too.. they must be of highly quality wise , say for example than China. what do you say??

i say good for them, they have access to good technology (albeit few foes)

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Turkey was allowed to join NATO during the cold war to keep Russia in Check.

things worked out well, I dont see USSR on the map anymore

Turkey is no longer needed into NATO.

I think it's in NATO's interests to have an industrialized and progressive Muslim country like Turkiye to be ''on board''

Same way it is in Turkiye's interest to be in NATO as it grants them access to modern war technology

There are talks of kicking Turkey out of NATO if it becomes a headache for NATO if it keeps challenging Israel.

Turkiye was never kicked out for not allowing U.S. forces to use Turkish soil to invade Iraq in 2003....

More pertinently, Turkiye has never militarily threatened israil; they just vowed to limit cooperation in all fields with them (as well as denying israilys the right to use their air space)

your post makes little sense

It has already been denied EU membership time and again.

1 in 4 flat screen televisions (along with other goods) in the EU market originate from Turkiye. I think it's a blessing in disguise for Turkiye to NOT be a part of the EU. Their goods are still extremely competitive.

there are many FOR and many AGAINST her membership, and quite frankly --seeing what happened to Greece has left a bad taste in many peoples' mouthes. Nationalism is again rising in Europe. I don't see a good future for the EU.

Turkiye is undergoing a period of neo-Ottomanism (as i like to call it) and I think their real growth lies in looking East --politically and economically. It's already happening.

Turkiye is blessed to be in a very strategic location on the map. They are smart and taking advantage of this.

This has forced Turkey to reconsider its geo-strategic priorities and is precisely the reason why Turkey is now looking east towards Iran and other eastern states.

When you say ''looking towards Iran'' I don't really see what you mean. They are just having an independent foreign policy and looking after their own interests ---nothing wrong with that, I respect it.

Moreover, India is the biggest strategic partner outside NATO. If ever there is a war between Turkey and India, I doubt NATO would interfere. They'd rather kick turkey out for all the trouble it is fomenting.

First of all, I doubt a war breaking out between the 2 countries; but NATO was nowhere to be seen when Russia invaded Georgia a couple years back.

Suffice to say, india would lose a lot and gain nothing if they went to war. I can't think of any Muslim country that does not view Turkiye in high regards. Given our very close ties to Turkiye, I don't think we'd sit idly either. hindustan would just once again be shooting itself in the foot if such a hypothetical scenario were to unfold

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

yes as far as as the weaponry is concerned we have no doubts since internet is there to help us. As per quality wise, since there are no wars looming, the quality has to be determined based on the exercises and training they get.

We here have Army, Navy and Air-force exercises in a regular basis on national and international basis that too with the best in the world. Like wise the training and know-how the PAF gets on exercises like redflag makes them a true potent force and one of the best.

Now your turn sir.

Turkiye does all the afore-mentioned ....in fact they also host a lot of military exercises as well (heard of Anadolu Kartalı? mere example)

 

[falconfx]

things worked out well, I dont see USSR on the map anymore

I doubt Turkey or Pakistan had anything to do with it other than to lease their land for NATO.

I think it's in NATO's interests to have an industrialized and progressive Muslim country like Turkiye to be ''on board''

It sure is in NATO's interests but it doesn't outweigh NATO's interest in Israel. Turkey needs to understand that. It is alienating itself from NATO by giving ultimatums to Israel, which Israel ignores. It doesn't add any weight to Turkey, but is only forcing NATO to reconsider its priorities.

Same way it is in Turkiye's interest to be in NATO as it grants them access to modern war technology

Turkiye was never kicked out for not allowing U.S. forces to use Turkish soil to invade Iraq in 2003....

More pertinently, Turkiye has never militarily threatened israil; they just vowed to limit cooperation in all fields with them (as well as denying israilys the right to use their air space)

Turkey is providing logistical support to NATO forces in Iraq war. In fact turkey is considering going to war with Iraq and was asked to keep quiet by US. Turkey is suffering from Iraqi terrorists who attack Turkey on its own border. Turkey shelled Iraq and used gunships to drive the PKK terrorists out of its border. Turkey is not the end-all, do-all of Muslims as Pakistani people perceive it, far from it.

there are many FOR and many AGAINST her membership, and quite frankly --seeing what happened to Greece has left a bad taste in many peoples' mouthes. Nationalism is again rising in Europe. I don't see a good future for the EU.

Turkiye is undergoing a period of neo-Ottomanism (as i like to call it) and I think their real growth lies in looking East --politically and economically. It's already happening.

Turkey is traversing a very dangerous path and is balancing a very tight rope. Turkey's vote against sanctions on Iran has been taken note of by NATO members. If Turkey is indeed going through a phase of Ottomanism they are going down a very dangerous path potentially. They don't have the resources, economically and militarily to become a neo-Ottomon empire.

When you say ''looking towards Iran'' I don't really see what you mean. They are just having an independent foreign policy and looking after their own interests ---nothing wrong with that, I respect it.

You can respect it all you want, NATO is not respecting it. They are taking notes for now.

First of all, I doubt a war breaking out between the 2 countries; but NATO was nowhere to be seen when Russia invaded Georgia a couple years back.

Exactly. There is no possibility of a war breaking out between India and Turkey. Georgia is not a NATO member and Russia showed how it can never become a NATO member. Georgia's NATO membership has been hanging in limbo ever since.

Suffice to say, india would lose a lot and gain nothing if they went to war. I can't think of any Muslim country that does not view Turkiye in high regards.

India would lose a lot, Turkey would lose a lot more. India buys enough arms to muscle NATO into isolating Turkey if war breaks out (although there is no reason for it to break out).

Given our very close ties to Turkiye, I don't think we'd sit idly either. hindustan would just once again be shooting itself in the foot if such a hypothetical scenario were to unfold

Now we're talking. That is what Pakistan would want. Neither Turkey nor India wants this to happen. Indian firms are working on revamping Ankara airport. India's trade relations with Turkey has grown 300% in 5 years and far exceeded Turkey-Pakistan trade. That itself will tell you where India stands vis-a-vis Turkey and Pakistan.

 

[SpArK]

I doubt Turkey or Pakistan had anything to do with it other than to lease their land for NATO.



It sure is in NATO's interests but it doesn't outweigh NATO's interest in Israel. Turkey needs to understand that. It is alienating itself from NATO by giving ultimatums to Israel, which Israel ignores. It doesn't add any weight to Turkey, but is only forcing NATO to reconsider its priorities.

Same way it is in Turkiye's interest to be in NATO as it grants them access to modern war technology





Turkey is providing logistical support to NATO forces in Iraq war. In fact turkey is considering going to war with Iraq and was asked to keep quiet by US. Turkey is suffering from Iraqi terrorists who attack Turkey on its own border. Turkey shelled Iraq and used gunships to drive the PKK terrorists out of its border. Turkey is not the end-all, do-all of Muslims as Pakistani people perceive it, far from it.



Turkey is traversing a very dangerous path and is balancing a very tight rope. Turkey's vote against sanctions on Iran has been taken note of by NATO members. If Turkey is indeed going through a phase of Ottomanism they are going down a very dangerous path potentially. They don't have the resources, economically and militarily to become a neo-Ottomon empire.





You can respect it all you want, NATO is not respecting it. They are taking notes for now.




Exactly. There is no possibility of a war breaking out between India and Turkey. Georgia is not a NATO member and Russia showed how it can never become a NATO member. Georgia's NATO membership has been hanging in limbo ever since.



India would lose a lot, Turkey would lose a lot more. India buys enough arms to muscle NATO into isolating Turkey if war breaks out (although there is no reason for it to break out).



Now we're talking. That is what Pakistan would want. Neither Turkey nor India wants this to happen. Indian firms are working on revamping Ankara airport. India's trade relations with Turkey has grown 300% in 5 years and far exceeded Turkey-Pakistan trade. That itself will tell you where India stands vis-a-vis Turkey and Pakistan.

Dude he has nothing to offer other than bringing NATO factor and bringing in religion on a debate between 2 militaries.. So just leave it.

Turkiye does all the afore-mentioned ....in fact they also host a lot of military exercises as well (heard of Anadolu Kartalı? mere example)

Yes heard and read about it a lot.

 

[javaman]

there is no rift in india and turkey.wat is the meaning of this thread

 

[SpArK]

there is no rift in india and turkey.wat is the meaning of this thread

Its a nice opportunity "to show off" views that can bring the valuable "thanks" in the post button. That's all.

 

[anathema]

I dont even know whats the point in opening up such threads !!!! And the worst part -- its running 14 pages and still going on.. I guess it has become another playground for Indian and Pakistani members.

India and Turkey is geographically apart - They dont have any tussles -- Plus Turkey is a fascniating country -- Would love to see the legacy of Ottoman empire.

How about we open a Pakistan vs UAE thread ? I dont think that would be appropriate since Pakistanis in all probability may route out UAE -- How about we open up Pakistan vs (UAE, SAUDI AND Turkey) together....

Stupid threads.

 

[SpArK]

Quick recap

Turkey is a Nuclear state and they are able to carry out a Counter Nuclear strike if they needed.

BTW Good Luck with Fighting Turkey , you would be fighting against NATO too

Don't you think Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Srilanka etc. enough neighbor that you fight all the time and interfere in their personnel business and now you guys want Turkey too.

We shouldn't forget policies of Indian hawkish elements towards Pakistan and Turkey is same because Muslims of Turkey,Pakistan Afghanistan and others rule India for 1,000 years. They do not express it openly but it is a fact.
I would say the thread is useless because India is very weak nation as compared to Turkey.

Turkey has a strong industrial base where India imports majority of its modern weapons.

But i warn you not to underestimate the power of Turkey, every Turkish men have military training because of conscription. Turkish army has the ability to reach 20 million manpower in 72 hours.

If we ignore the geography, it could be a real BLOODY war..

India is no match for Turkey. Even with nukes as a NATO ally Turkey is attacked by India with them Turkey will respond in kind. Turkey has several dozen B-61 --Thermonuclear Bombs (stationed in Turkey) which India does not have.

And if India does somehow gets the upperhand (impossible chance) ALL the NATO countries will intervene and send India back to the Flinstone era.

if they fought in some neutral venue, the Turks would stomp them like bugs

Turkish People: We are not enemies with India

Indian People: We are not enemies with Turkey

Pakistani People: Turkey! Turkey! Turkey! Fight with us against India,

you must be slightly delusional. Turkiye is a NATO country (2nd largest Armed Forces in NATO after U.S.)

they have a weapons/defence industry that is FARRR ahead of yours; and dont talk about quality or training because being a NATO country entails you must meet and maintain certain operating standards among all 3 services

1 in 4 flat screen televisions (along with other goods) in the EU market originate from Turkiye. I think it's a blessing in disguise for Turkiye to NOT be a part of the EU. Their goods are still extremely competitive.
Suffice to say, india would lose a lot and gain nothing if they went to war. I can't think of any Muslim country that does not view Turkiye in high regards. Given our very close ties to Turkiye, I don't think we'd sit idly either. hindustan would just once again be shooting itself in the foot if such a hypothetical scenario were to unfold

Lesson learned-How to debate a Turkey Vs India military wise in a defense forum contributed by members and Thinktanks.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I doubt Turkey or Pakistan had anything to do with it other than to lease their land for NATO.

whatever could be done, was done. Our land was never leased to anyone, we allowed our land to be used to funnel weapons and goods to anti soviet mujahideen; and it was the right thing that we did

same way Turkish covert/overt support during cold war (among them, the Grey Wolves and other pan-Turan groups) was instrumental as well

It sure is in NATO's interests but it doesn't outweigh NATO's interest in Israel. Turkey needs to understand that. It is alienating itself from NATO by giving ultimatums to Israel, which Israel ignores.

Turkiye is the first country which israil was literally forced to apologize to. They never even apologized to the U.S. over USS Liberty incident (which i have brought up numerous times already)

It doesn't add any weight to Turkey, but is only forcing NATO to reconsider its priorities.

patch me to an article or op ed that is a bit more convincing

Turkey is providing logistical support to NATO forces in Iraq war.

No new news; doesnt mean they allowed the land to be used as a staging point for invasion.

In fact turkey is considering going to war with Iraq and was asked to keep quiet by US.

Not going to war with Iraq....just conducting Mil-Ops in Northern Iraq's predominately kordish areas where rebels have presence along the porous border. This is no new news, it's been going on for several years now.

Next.

Turkey is suffering from Iraqi terrorists who attack Turkey on its own border.

Iranians are in the same boat with the PJAK. Iran and Turkiye are said to be cooperating closely to end the problem of Kurdish militant groups, a lot of intel sharing going on

Turkey shelled Iraq and used gunships to drive the PKK terrorists out of its border. Turkey is not the end-all, do-all of Muslims as Pakistani people perceive it, far from it.

most Pakistanis would have no problem with this, considering we have similar problems....

in fact, CJCSC Gen. Tariq Majid was recently in Turkiye to not just discuss joint cooperation -- but also to reaffirm our support for Turkish nation as they confront similar problem of terrorism

Turks are not at war with Kordish peoples, they are at war with the PKK --which does not even represent kords

Pakistan nation looks forward to sharing our counter-insurgency experiences with the Turks, and we have much to learn from them as well. We operate some similar military equipment and that will be a big plus.

Turkey is traversing a very dangerous path and is balancing a very tight rope.

I think they're playing their cards pretty well...with regards to recent incident off the coast of Gaza --it was israil that was at the receiving end of the international condemnation --and it was well deserved I think

it wasnt Turkiye

Turkey's vote against sanctions on Iran has been taken note of by NATO members. If Turkey is indeed going through a phase of Ottomanism they are going down a very dangerous path potentially. They don't have the resources, economically and militarily to become a neo-Ottomon empire.

Turks should continue on a progressive and democratic path the way they always have been; I think they should remain a secular Muslim majority country. I have lived there and I know the places and the people very well. I see no signs of ''dangerous path potentially'' as long as wise councils prevail, in conjunction with them protecting their national interests.

Many Muslim countries hold Turkiye in high esteem, as do many western countries. Creates a good bridge between the 2.

Just because Turkiye heeded to the anger of its people and strongly rebuked israil over the flotilla incident (among other things) does not mean it is on a confrontation path with the west.

review PM Erdogan's speech to parliament subsequent to the incident

You can respect it all you want, NATO is not respecting it. They are taking notes for now.

care to share these ''notes''?

Exactly. There is no possibility of a war breaking out between India and Turkey.

correct.....good for hindustan

Georgia is not a NATO member and Russia showed how it can never become a NATO member. Georgia's NATO membership has been hanging in limbo ever since.

true

India would lose a lot, Turkey would lose a lot more. India buys enough arms to muscle NATO into isolating Turkey if war breaks out (although there is no reason for it to break out).

i highly doubt it.....Pakistan is a country with not a great deal of leverage under this current administration; and you couldnt even stop one single arms sale to our country or isolate Pakistan

Turkiye being an older, more ''established'' country -- I would be very interested to know how a country like hindustan could ''muscle'' NATO into isolating Turkiye

what nonsense!

hogwash!

Indian firms are working on revamping Ankara airport. India's trade relations with Turkey has grown 300% in 5 years and far exceeded Turkey-Pakistan trade. That itself will tell you where India stands vis-a-vis Turkey and Pakistan.

on the economics front, I dont see why Turkiye shouldnt have trade with any other country --hindustan included.

Just because you are an enemy of ours doesnt mean Turks cant do business with you; it's like saying we can't do business with the Greeks (which we do)

on military as well as ''personal'' level, our brotherhood with Turkish nation is un-tetherable and unquestioned. They have helped us, we have helped them during the most testing times.















p.s. a little insider info for you.....

with my own two eyes i saw hindustany naval delegation at IDEF 09 storm (literally) out of the expo because the Turks refused to allow a sale of the Aselsan Stamp (naval remote control stabilized gun used on fast attack boats) -- a friend of mine in MKE who informally works as a bridge between Pakistan embassy and Turkish defence companies gave me the reason ()

as a result, this is what the hindustany stall looked like at IDEF 09 throughout the 3 days that I attended it

I spoke with a friend who was an event coordinator at TUYAP -- he said the indians didn't even pay the $165,000 charge to open a stall there despite repeated (heated) calls to the embassy

 

[prototype]

a pretty much useless thread,from when turkey and India became enemy,this thread must b started by some Pakistani fan boy,because of the faith of ummah,they just call in each and every Islamic nation to join their war as they have no other work to do,and also i have seen many Pakistani bragging about turkey only to hide their incompetence

 

[Peregrine]

a pretty much useless thread,from when turkey and India became enemy,this thread must b started by some Pakistani fan boy,because of the faith of ummah,they just call in each and every Islamic nation to join their war as they have no other work to do,and also i have seen many Pakistani bragging about turkey only to hide their incompetence

only an Indian troll can come with lame comments like this if you happen to have a perfect pair of eyes then please bother to see who started the thread, as for Pakistanis defending the thread it only speaks of their affection for an other Muslim state which defies your delusions about Ummah. so to sum it up get over yourself! & try to over come your obsession with Pakistan.

 

[falconfx]

whatever could be done, was done.

Exactly. Pawns are not given credit in a geo-strategic chess game. They are expendable.

Our land was never leased to anyone, we allowed our land to be used to funnel weapons and goods to anti soviet mujahideen; and it was the right thing that we did.

It doesn't seem the right thing to me. After all, that is biting Pakistan in its *** pushing it into a perpetual state of civil war. US made a statement the other day saying "Pakistan is fighting for its existence". Considering the losses suffered economically, I don't think it was a right decision.

Turkiye is the first country which israil was literally forced to apologize to. They never even apologized to the U.S. over USS Liberty incident (which i have brought up numerous times already)

Israel has continued to maintain that come what may, they are not going to apologize to Turkey. I don't know where you get these deluded idea that Israel is forced to do anything. By the way, where is the Israeli flotilla that was supposed to break the Israeli blockade?

patch me to an article or op ed that is a bit more convincing

In your own words, you have a keyboard and a mouse. Use google.

No new news; doesnt mean they allowed the land to be used as a staging point for invasion.

The point is. Turkey is not Ottoman.

Not going to war with Iraq....just conducting Mil-Ops in Northern Iraq's predominately kordish areas where rebels have presence along the porous border. This is no new news, it's been going on for several years now.

This is funny. Turkey is conducting military ops in Iraq, just like US is conducting military ops in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Iranians are in the same boat with the PJAK. Iran and Turkiye are said to be cooperating closely to end the problem of Kurdish militant groups, a lot of intel sharing going on

Good for both! Terrorism is a threat to the entire world.

in fact, CJCSC Gen. Tariq Majid was recently in Turkiye to not just discuss joint cooperation -- but also to reaffirm our support for Turkish nation as they confront similar problem of terrorism. Turks are not at war with Kordish peoples, they are at war with the PKK --which does not even represent kords

Turkey is mulling to go to war with Iraq again. They already wanted to go to war earlier too, but were asked to stand down by the US.

I think they're playing their cards pretty well...with regards to recent incident off the coast of Gaza --it was israil that was at the receiving end of the international condemnation --and it was well deserved I think

it wasnt Turkiye

Lets see, Israel is still blockading Gaza, Turkey still hasn't sent any fleet to break that blockade, so Israel still wins.

Turks should continue on a progressive and democratic path the way they always have been; I think they should remain a secular Muslim majority country. I have lived there and I know the places and the people very well. I see no signs of ''dangerous path potentially'' as long as wise councils prevail, in conjunction with them protecting their national interests.

You living in Turkey doesn't give you any insight into Turkey's political moves. That is like saying, I've lived in US and I know US will not attack Iran. Rubbish. Wise counsel is for Turkey to look out for its own interests. If it interferes in world affairs, it will get burned.

Many Muslim countries hold Turkiye in high esteem, as do many western countries. Creates a good bridge between the 2.

Western countries are out to hold Turkey in high esteem only until it serves their interests. If that is no longer the case, there will not be any bridge.

Just because Turkiye heeded to the anger of its people and strongly rebuked israil over the flotilla incident (among other things) does not mean it is on a confrontation path with the west.

Not yet. The situation is still developing and think tanks are already weighing the advantages of supporting Turkey vis-a-vis Israel.

i highly doubt it.....Pakistan is a country with not a great deal of leverage under this current administration; and you couldnt even stop one single arms sale to our country or isolate Pakistan

I think you need to read more news. France is a good example of what India can do to Pakistan.

Turkiye being an older, more ''established'' country -- I would be very interested to know how a country like hindustan could ''muscle'' NATO into isolating Turkiye

Lets see,
Who is the largest arms importer? India.
Who is going to spend $100 billion over the next 10 years in arms imports? India.
Who has more leverage? India.
Who can muscle Turkey out if required? India (although Israel will do the job more nicely, thank you very much)

on the economics front, I dont see why Turkiye shouldnt have trade with any other country --hindustan included.

Just because you are an enemy of ours doesnt mean Turks cant do business with you; it's like saying we can't do business with the Greeks (which we do)

Turkey-India trade was non-existent up until the last decade. Turkey opened up as soon as West opened up to India. Its not about business. Its about geo-politics. India has arrived.

 

[ARSENAL6]

Good for both! Terrorism is a threat to the entire world.




.

Really so when are we gonna see India dealing with its homebreed of Hindu Terrorism ?

Hindu terrorists

Hindu Terrorists oppress Muslims in India
Hindu Terrorism by Reshma
Abhinav Bharat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hint: if you stop worring about UMMah and Pakistan then you would delt with terrorism. Its like you said terrorism is a threat to the world . You wouldn't want Uncle Sam Knocking on your door just because some Hindu Fanatic went and killied several Evangelical Christian. Would you now ?