Turkey Mulling Upgrade to Leopard 2s, M60s

[Zarvan]

ANKARA—Turkey’s military and procurement officials are mulling the options of upgrading hundreds of German-made Leopard 2 and U.S.-made M60 main battle tanks.

One senior procurement official familiar with the program said that about 100 Leopard 2s and 300 M60s would go through an upgrade program. Industry sources say such upgrades would cost Ankara anywhere between $2 million to $3 million per tank. A bunch of 300 to 400 tank upgrades will have a total cost of more than $1 billion.

They say Turkey’s defense procurement agency, the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM in its Turkish acronym) would most likely award the Leopard 2 upgrade contract to the German Rheinmetall’s three-partner, Turkey-based venture, RBSS. Rheinmetall’s partners are the Turkish armored vehicles manufacturer BMC and the Malaysia-based Etika Strategi.

The planned M60 upgrades may mark the first Turkish-Israeli defense deal after the two former allies froze their diplomatic ties in 2010 but agreed on détente recently. Ankara and Jerusalem are expected to appoint ambassadors to each other within days after they downgraded diplomatic representation to the level of charge d’affaires in 2010.

In the 1990s a bunch of Turkish M60s went through a successful upgrade by Israeli Military Industries (IMI).

Meanwhile, the Turkish government is expected to announce a bidding for the serial production of hundreds of Altays, Turkey’s first indigenous, new generation main battle tank. The bidding is expected to open in the next few months.



In this multibillion-dollar contest Altay’s developer, Otokar, is expected to race with BMC, the Turkish partner of RBSS.

In 2008, Otokar signed a $500 million contract with SSM for the development of four prototypes of the Altay. At the beginning of this year Otokar said it completed the production of Altay prototypes and that the prototypes were now going through system qualification and acceptance tests.

In January, Otokar officially submitted its bid for serial production 250 Altay tanks and integrated logistical support for the program. A few moths later it revised its bid and submitted its best and final offer (BAFO) to SSM.

The Altay program involves the production of 1,000 tanks, with an initial bath of 250.

The Turkish Army has 720 German-made Leopard 1 and 2 tanks, 930 American M60s and 1,370 M48s, most of which are Cold War-era tanks and need replacement.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/turkey-mulling-upgrade-to-leopard-2s-m60s

@Dazzler

 

[what]

This makes no sense because Aselsan has developed an upgraded Leo.

But I guess thats the price Turkish people have to pay if Otokar gets the Altay tender.

 

[BordoEnes]

This makes no sense because Aselsan has developed an upgraded Leo.

But I guess thats the price Turkish people have to pay if Otokar gets the Altay tender.

These political agenda's and biases is slowly destroying our defence industry. Instead of giving it to the best bidder they prefer companies that are politically allied to them. This upgrade program isnt neccesary bad for the short term but the reasoning and suspicion nature of it is quit worrying. Either way any upgrade package for the Leopard 2 should be done in cooperation with Aselsan as they already developed a package of their own not long ago.

Still though considering the current political environment of the Middle-East it might not be a bad idea. Though i would really prefer to get rid of the M60's and M-48's already. Leopard still has potential to be capable at the fraction of the cost for an upgrade for the M60. Canadian army's 114 Leopard C1 tanks in service were upgraded to C2 standard at a cost of CAD $139 million. Whilst the upgrade for the 170 M60 Sabra's costed around $688 million USD.

So if anything the Leopards should be the only ones to get some decent upgrades. The rest are a waste of money imo at this point.

Canadian Leopard C2's(Upgraded Leopard 1)

 

[what]

@BordoEnes first Milgem, then the LPD tender (there were entirely domestic bids) and now this. Its a shame, really if its true.

 

[Glass]

These political agenda's and biases is slowly destroying our defence industry. Instead of giving it to the best bidder they prefer companies that are politically allied to them.

^this.

Still though considering the current political environment of the Middle-East it might not be a bad idea. Though i would really prefer to get rid of the M60's and M-48's already. Leopard still has potential to be capable at the fraction of the cost for an upgrade for the M60.

i think after the upgrade of 300 m60 into sabra the other ones will be retired and used for spare parts. Are m48 and m60 smilar because it would make sense if we retire those m48 aswell and use them for spare parts we would easily have cheap maintance for the next decades. and here with the leo2 they say they are going to upgrade 100 that means that 250 will be left without an upgrade and those might be retired aswell and be used for spare parts. We would have here again cheap maintance for years or decades(?)

anyways its important that Otokar receives the bid for altay. I trust Otokar more then any other turkish company

 

[Stimpy75]

Sry but who says that is all true
Don't forget that this is burak bokdil who wrote this article
Don't jump on conclusions just because this moron wrote it!
Did you read any Turkish sources who claim these purchases?

 

[Glass]

BEAST

 

[LordTyrannus]

Erdogan does not care about the lifes of anatolian foot soldiers. He fills his own pocket like a good gangster freemason.

Well in Russia life is cheap but in turkey it is even cheaper knowadays.

This upgrades will just be good for bribe money.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Erdogan does not care about the lifes of anatolian foot soldiers. He fills his own pocket like a good gangster freemason.

Well in Russia life is cheap but in turkey it is even cheaper knowadays.

This upgrades will just be good for bribe money.

Thank you for your concern Lord Tyrannus

 

[LordTyrannus]

Thank you for your concern Lord Tyrannus

If you beg nicely Russia can sell you Armata Tanks. The most advanced Tanks in the world.

Armata gun can burn through 1000mm Rha equivalent.

Your funny altay tank with korean inferior gun is no match. The Altay crew is not well protected, the altay looks like a monkeyversion for exports into third world countries like saudiarabia, barzanistan etc.

 

[Attila the Hun]

If you beg nicely Russia can sell you Armata Tanks. The most advanced Tanks in the world.

Armata gun can burn through 1000mm Rha equivalent.

Your funny altay tank with korean inferior gun is no match. The Altay crew is not well protected, the altay looks like a monkeyversion for exports into third world countries like saudiarabia, barzanistan etc.

Are we going to be friends now bro?

 

[Bismarck]

If you beg nicely Russia can sell you Armata Tanks. The most advanced Tanks in the world.

Armata gun can burn through 1000mm Rha equivalent.

Your funny altay tank with korean inferior gun is no match. The Altay crew is not well protected, the altay looks like a monkeyversion for exports into third world countries like saudiarabia, barzanistan etc.

Korean Gun? Btw, do you solve your engine problem?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Aselsan's indigenous upgrade solution, the Leo2 NG:

 

[Pax Ottomana]

As for the Altay program, yes, prototype qualification stage has been completed but they're stuck trying to decide how to manage the serial production of so many tanks. Things change quickly in and around Turkey recently so things are shifty. There's reports of cancelling the "tender" altogether now and switching to a new production model in which two concurrent batches of 250 tanks (500 total) will be manufactured simultaneously to the same basic specifications by both Otokar and BMC. This reportedly has to do with the changing security dynamics in Turkey's southeast, negative developments in Syria and Iraq, as well as the events of July 15 and Turkey's own internal security issues.

Disadvantages:
-- Increased upfront cost, but the "total cost" over the life of the 1000-tank program will have only marginally increased
-- Allegations of BMC favoritism on the part of the AKP

Advantages:
-- About 2X faster delivery/completion of batches (6-10 tanks/month --> 12-20 tanks/month)
-- Diversified and hence more reliable supply chain
-- Wider involvement of sub-industries as Otokar and BMC will for the most part work with distinct subcontractors (other than major system undertakers like Aselsan, Roketsan, etc)
-- It is hoped that competition between BMC and Otokar for batch 3 & 4 contracts will lead to new investment in production technologies as well as unique innovations in their own produced tanks
-- Demonstration of strong industrial capability to foes in the region as Turkey will field 500 new modern tanks **in record time**


Advantages seem to outweigh the disadvantages?

 

[TrMhMt]

Leopards need upgrade but m60s? I dont think so.